TATC Pay Rise
Join Date: Aug 2005
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ifaxu.
I think one point SOAP was trying to make regarding pay at the college, was at no time in the past, have trainees been on such a low salary. Therefore, he is right to presume that if you trained at CATC as a student controller then you will have been on more money than current trainees.
I think one point SOAP was trying to make regarding pay at the college, was at no time in the past, have trainees been on such a low salary. Therefore, he is right to presume that if you trained at CATC as a student controller then you will have been on more money than current trainees.
Join Date: May 2004
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low salary
big boeing- I agree . I was on more money but I suspect my outgoings were more than most TATC s ( my choice I know ). However I made an informed decision about whether to commence my training based on these facts. If TATC s are mis-informed as to starting salary then I am behind them 100%.
For information I also voted against the pay deal which resulted in the trainee salary being reduced to 10,000 pounds. IT WAS NOT ENOUGH!!!
SOAP- we will resume our conversation in a few years perhaps!
Going to watch football now. Far more important than all this!!
For information I also voted against the pay deal which resulted in the trainee salary being reduced to 10,000 pounds. IT WAS NOT ENOUGH!!!
SOAP- we will resume our conversation in a few years perhaps!
Going to watch football now. Far more important than all this!!
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Ifaxu , did you get out of bed the wrong side this morning ?
A good number of us at the time this was being voted on said this would happen leading to debt problems when trainee ATCOs least need it. There is nothing wrong in somebody having a gripe about their conditions of work and employment , my experiences taught me that ATCOs are actually very good at doing that throughout their career it is how we have managed to acquire the terms and conditions we currently have by being vocal.
The money was ludicrously low, my calculations showed just below the NMW , some people on their high horses on here went on about if you want the job you will put up with it and so they did but found to their cost it simply wasn't a living wage.
I for one hope there will be some recompense for what was one of the most stupid changes to terms and conditions in NATS history, even the new arrangement is far from brilliant especially as the cost of living keeps rising ever more so.
A good number of us at the time this was being voted on said this would happen leading to debt problems when trainee ATCOs least need it. There is nothing wrong in somebody having a gripe about their conditions of work and employment , my experiences taught me that ATCOs are actually very good at doing that throughout their career it is how we have managed to acquire the terms and conditions we currently have by being vocal.
The money was ludicrously low, my calculations showed just below the NMW , some people on their high horses on here went on about if you want the job you will put up with it and so they did but found to their cost it simply wasn't a living wage.
I for one hope there will be some recompense for what was one of the most stupid changes to terms and conditions in NATS history, even the new arrangement is far from brilliant especially as the cost of living keeps rising ever more so.
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Just because someone makes an informed decision based on current pay/conditions doesn't make it any less frustrating when you start just after a pay decrease and leave just before an increase. I'm currently at the college and strongly welcome the increase but can full understand why TATC's that have just left the college are a little miffed.
Join Date: May 2006
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I sympathise and hope you get something back but I suppose being at the College one is probably young and inexperienced, so let me mention one thing that will save you much angst over the years to come if you choose to remember it the next time you feel hard done by... life just isn't fair.
Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
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but you surely cannot believe that TATCs aren't one of hardest working groups of people in the company?
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EW - Surely the point is that they didn't like the salary, signed up inspite of it, and now's it's changed for the better they feel harshly treated? Seems like a natural reaction to be disappointed when you leave a training post and then the pay increases to near what you are now earning having completed the course.
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Not sure EGAA was too far out grading wise. Just checked the live movement board and a total of 21 scheduled from 0800---1200!
I think I had more than that on frequency at 0400 a couple of weeks ago.
I think I had more than that on frequency at 0400 a couple of weeks ago.
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250...it was a general comment(Sunday in September...theres representative..). If you prefer to discuss grading we will do that. My annoyance was with the "we are the hardest workers in NATS" ...when everyone knows that is Manch
). If you prefer to discuss grading we will do that. My annoyance was with the "we are the hardest workers in NATS" ...when everyone knows that is Manch
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Have to agree with many of the posts...I too felt that when the company was trying to cost save cutting TATC's salary along with accomodation, was a step too far when it dropped to 10k.(i voted no) Yes you sign up to these terms, but the course and training is hard enough without having to worry about the bank manager and whether that last tin of value beans would last the week out....Good on those at Hurn that fought for this....Sorry to those who went through the pain of 10k and missed the accomodation pay..... glad you completed the course, but if you get any recompense, i will be surprised but do not knock you for trying.
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When the new TATC £10K pay deal was introduced...it was not just the new TATC terms and conditions which were changed (although the unions assured all existing TATCs it was). Existing TATCs lost their monthly trips home...It may seem minor in the scheme of things but the existing TATCs signed up to terms and conditions with a monthly trip home!
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bad at radar,
Yes, and when I signed up many years ago lots of my T&Cs were different to what they are now.
Over the years various deals have been done where these T&Cs were changed. Some changes I liked, some I didn't but they were all (as far as I can remember anyway) done by democratic means ie they were voted on by union members and accepted or rejected.
I didn't like the recent bung and change to the redundancy agreement for example, but the majority accepted it so that's that.
Over the years to come many of the T&Cs you have now will change, some for the better and some probably for the worse. Your first exposure unfortunately seems to have been a change for the worse but that's just the the way it works. Nothing is guaranteed either in life (apart from death) or working for NATS... not even early gos!
Yes, and when I signed up many years ago lots of my T&Cs were different to what they are now.
Over the years various deals have been done where these T&Cs were changed. Some changes I liked, some I didn't but they were all (as far as I can remember anyway) done by democratic means ie they were voted on by union members and accepted or rejected.
I didn't like the recent bung and change to the redundancy agreement for example, but the majority accepted it so that's that.
Over the years to come many of the T&Cs you have now will change, some for the better and some probably for the worse. Your first exposure unfortunately seems to have been a change for the worse but that's just the the way it works. Nothing is guaranteed either in life (apart from death) or working for NATS... not even early gos!
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I'm afraid those TATCs who earned £10k but have now left the college are the unlucky ones. I don't for a minute believe you will be compensated in any way, nor do I think you have any right to be so.
Like many others, I said the cut to £10k was way over the top and a very short-sighted decision based on Prospect pressuring to get more money for the existing high-earners. Given the situation with pensions, you can imagine the executive licking their lips at the thought of ATCO unions accepting the idea of screwing their future colleagues for personal gain - that's exactly how they will kill our pension. Lesson learned I hope.
Like many others, I said the cut to £10k was way over the top and a very short-sighted decision based on Prospect pressuring to get more money for the existing high-earners. Given the situation with pensions, you can imagine the executive licking their lips at the thought of ATCO unions accepting the idea of screwing their future colleagues for personal gain - that's exactly how they will kill our pension. Lesson learned I hope.
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Right to be compensated?
I find it amusing that this situation generates odd comments like the one from "Me,me,me" about not having the right to be compensated. I really feels that in the new TATC deal, a back pay should have been included to all the TATCs from 207 onwards. How can we explain to the current student licence holders posted at their units that the new starters at the college(of which a third won't make it) will be earning more than them? It is totally unacceptable. NATS is unique in the fact that they are managing to cut all deals freely or let's say with little resistance from the union. I can't see British airways staff accepting new starters earning more than the ones already in place! There would have been one response from the whole of BA: STRIKE! The deal would not even have been negociated. When you get to the the college, you get a very heavy speech about the fact that over 90% of NATS is part of the union and yet we don't feel that Prospect has any power to change anything.The bottom line is that no matter what anyone says, there is no unity among NATS staff, everybody is more than happy to get the best deals for themselves regardless of what it involves for everybody else.Don't even dare say that I should stop moaning about the situation, just face the facts: IT IS US WHO WILL CONTINUE PAYING FOR YOUR PENSION WHEN YOU'LL BE RETIRED! So being on the side of your colleagues who got stuffed will not harm your bank account, believe me we are just asking for support. Thank you to all.
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Roffa is right - life is not fair... if you left the College you have missed out on the deal they are getting - you have no chance of getting anything paid retrospectively. You can campaign and stir it up ... but I suggest you find a nice solid piece of conrete wall and bang your head against it.
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Unlucky ones, no right to get anything, concrete wall?
I am quite astonished to see that this subject brings up such comments like the ones posted by Martininthemiddle and especially Me,me,me. How can we explain to the trainees that have successfuly passed through the college and are now validating at their units that new starters at the college ( out of which a third will not make it) will earn more than them? How can we sit there making patronising and selfish comments like those? It is totally unacceptable and in any other companies, there would have been a united response from all the staff. Imagine British airways announcing that new hostesses will earn more than the ones already employed!!! The new deal would die straight away as BA went on STRIKE for much less several times and management know where to stand. They would all stick together to get the best deal for everyone. But now at NATS, the 20th best company to work for, we are let down by our own colleagues and our union. At the college, all new starters get a cheap speech from the reps saying that the union is very strong as over 90% of us are part of it. But what have they done to protect the TATCs? Nothing, let's face it prospect is weak. Management gets away with cutting down everything playing on the greed of the voters and the incompetency of Prospect. I am fed up to hear people telling the TATCS concerned by the issue to stop moaning, tough luck and so on. Let's get it clear once and for all: I would like to ask everyone within NATS to remember who will be paying the pension when you will be retired! The very people you stabbed in the back! The group of people who got hard done by, deserve support from their colleagues. That is all they are asking for. If NATS employees can not provide this for one another, it is very sad indeed!
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Supertoad, you have my full backing...The problem is the short term view of the many which there is no easy solution.
ATCOs need to remember the strong position we are in, and time and time again Prospect just roll over and accept what is thrust upon them.
As for the previous responses regarding changes to T&C its often the poor communication which causes so many not to vote because the situation is not clear
Yes the current TATC signed up to the £10K but does that not show determination and commitment...Let be honest how many of us ATCO's would have accepted the same T&C??? Finanically I would not have been able to
ATCOs need to remember the strong position we are in, and time and time again Prospect just roll over and accept what is thrust upon them.
As for the previous responses regarding changes to T&C its often the poor communication which causes so many not to vote because the situation is not clear
Yes the current TATC signed up to the £10K but does that not show determination and commitment...Let be honest how many of us ATCO's would have accepted the same T&C??? Finanically I would not have been able to
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Excellent post supertoad.
Couldn't agree more with your statement, what some people dont understand is that living costs have probably doubled since they went through the college on £20k many years ago, making it much harder on £10k! and im sure sitting there on £80k a year its very easy to tell us TATC's to stop moaning. I'm currently at my unit struggling to make ends meet financially and having been told by the college that the £60pw tax free is to help with living costs whilst at the college, well im afraid to tell you living costs INCREASE away from the b&b's in boscombe! How the hell do you find a deposit for a flat when you are earning next to nothing! Oh and NATS are guaranteed to fu*k up your first pay packet, they'll still pay you £10k when you get to your unit unless you sort it out yourself!
You're completely right - this wouldnt be tolerated in any other company, NATS management think the company is untouchable and because so many people want to be ATCO's they think they can treat us like crap. A greater proportion of valid ATCO's should be backing us up, there seems to be a huge divide between valid ATCO's and trainees, although the ones who are supportive are fantastic.
I'm sure there are other companies out there who treat Student ATCO's as individuals and not a number, oh and pay double what we are on now....JUST TO TRAIN! Let see the pension after we all disappear.
Couldn't agree more with your statement, what some people dont understand is that living costs have probably doubled since they went through the college on £20k many years ago, making it much harder on £10k! and im sure sitting there on £80k a year its very easy to tell us TATC's to stop moaning. I'm currently at my unit struggling to make ends meet financially and having been told by the college that the £60pw tax free is to help with living costs whilst at the college, well im afraid to tell you living costs INCREASE away from the b&b's in boscombe! How the hell do you find a deposit for a flat when you are earning next to nothing! Oh and NATS are guaranteed to fu*k up your first pay packet, they'll still pay you £10k when you get to your unit unless you sort it out yourself!
You're completely right - this wouldnt be tolerated in any other company, NATS management think the company is untouchable and because so many people want to be ATCO's they think they can treat us like crap. A greater proportion of valid ATCO's should be backing us up, there seems to be a huge divide between valid ATCO's and trainees, although the ones who are supportive are fantastic.
I'm sure there are other companies out there who treat Student ATCO's as individuals and not a number, oh and pay double what we are on now....JUST TO TRAIN! Let see the pension after we all disappear.