Descending on Glideslope
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Descending on Glideslope
Hi to all the hardworking ATCO out there, you all have my respect.
Anyway, the other day I was descending into a Midlands airport doing a continuous descent as required. We were cleared to descend to 2500' cleared for the localiser and report established. However at 2700'we intercepted the localiser just as a GA aircraft called up. The approach controller then said G.xxxx pass your message. As often happens with GA there was then a long protracted initial message that resulted in additional responses from the radar controller. In the meantime we had levelled at 2500' with the glideslope rapidly disappearing beneath us. We discontinued the approach at 2500' and we were overhead before we got a GA call in.
My question to you all is why are we not cleared for an approach as we are in every other country in Europe. Certainly our aircraft will not descend on the G/S until the Localiser is captured. True we can descend in vertical speed mode but we wouldn't do that unless we were visual, even in Europe.
The same is true on a non precision approach. Unless you call established inbound on the radial we are not cleared to descend. Whilst the airport in question is not normally that busy that you can't get a call in, some are, and this would certainly cut down on the ever increasing R/T that approach controllers seem to have.
(please don't just quote the British regulations. I know it is the way we do things, I am just curious as to why)
Anyway, the other day I was descending into a Midlands airport doing a continuous descent as required. We were cleared to descend to 2500' cleared for the localiser and report established. However at 2700'we intercepted the localiser just as a GA aircraft called up. The approach controller then said G.xxxx pass your message. As often happens with GA there was then a long protracted initial message that resulted in additional responses from the radar controller. In the meantime we had levelled at 2500' with the glideslope rapidly disappearing beneath us. We discontinued the approach at 2500' and we were overhead before we got a GA call in.
My question to you all is why are we not cleared for an approach as we are in every other country in Europe. Certainly our aircraft will not descend on the G/S until the Localiser is captured. True we can descend in vertical speed mode but we wouldn't do that unless we were visual, even in Europe.
The same is true on a non precision approach. Unless you call established inbound on the radial we are not cleared to descend. Whilst the airport in question is not normally that busy that you can't get a call in, some are, and this would certainly cut down on the ever increasing R/T that approach controllers seem to have.
(please don't just quote the British regulations. I know it is the way we do things, I am just curious as to why)
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<<My question to you all is why are we not cleared for an approach as we are in every other country in Europe>>
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Wanabee, a search will reveal quite a few other threads about this subject and the rationale for why things are done the way they are here.
On a more positive note expect UK phraseology to change, hopefully in the not too distant future, such that you shouldn't find yourself placed in the same position again once the change is made.
On a more positive note expect UK phraseology to change, hopefully in the not too distant future, such that you shouldn't find yourself placed in the same position again once the change is made.
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BOAC,
Undoubtedly, yes.
Phraseology already exists in the UK to allow you to be cleared down the ILS before established on the LOC and I believe there's a revision to this to allow yet more flexibilty (hopefully) in the works as well.
Back to the topic? It would surely have been better to say " G-ZZZZ stand-by" since the next required clearance was somewhat predictable?
Phraseology already exists in the UK to allow you to be cleared down the ILS before established on the LOC and I believe there's a revision to this to allow yet more flexibilty (hopefully) in the works as well.
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Unbelievable, same happened today. I think same person, same gender anyway. This time I started down from 3000' anyway and got call at 2850' to descend on G/S.
Twice in a week. Surely approach controllers should be aware that someone is/has intercepted and be ready. (This is not a busy London Airport)
Twice in a week. Surely approach controllers should be aware that someone is/has intercepted and be ready. (This is not a busy London Airport)
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I am not making this an issue, but I would be happy to discuss this with you, if you are the supervisor involved. Please send me a PM with your phone number and I would be more than happy to meet after a flight so that we can all determine whether this is a problem.
Regards
WGA
Regards
WGA
