New Heathrow Tower
Join Date: May 2002
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I can't remember as my memory's not what it used to be, but did all these units who moved tower successfully also have a fundamental change to their controlling procedures in the form of EFPS associated with it?!?
Thought not!!
I for one am very proud of the achievement of everyone at the unit, especially when considering that within one day we were back to almost the same traffic levels prior to the move!!
Huge congratulations are due to captain spunkfarter and everyone in the training department, and also to P7 and all the NVCRIs.
FB
Thought not!! I for one am very proud of the achievement of everyone at the unit, especially when considering that within one day we were back to almost the same traffic levels prior to the move!!
Huge congratulations are due to captain spunkfarter and everyone in the training department, and also to P7 and all the NVCRIs.
FB
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Hong Kong moved the whole damn AIRPORT overnight. Kai closed at midnight and CLK opened at 6 am!
Too bad they didn't bring the checker board with them
Too bad they didn't bring the checker board with them
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Gonzo
It's good to know that you 'don't care' what flow measures are on. The flow measures are in place not only to protect Heathrow ATC, but to ensure the wider ATC community (there is a wider ATC community, by the way) deliver the correct number of aircraft to the stack. This helps to ensure that sectors further back up the chain do not get overloaded with aircraft. The only difference between one of your overloads on the ground, and one of ours in the air, is that our aircraft are...in the air. These are the ones that don't tend to stop when instructed.
Interesting. 3.5 mile spacing equates to a landing rate of 38. The declared rate for NVCR post transition is 40. This equates to an average arrival spacing of 3 to 3.25 miles, which once you've taken all the vortex wake spacings out of the equation, means 3 mile spacing between appropriate pairs of aircraft. This is what all your colleagues (the ones that presumably haven't had your level of involvement, or don't have your level of confidence) seem to be coping with no problem.
Personally I don't care what flow measures are on
I would know that when I'd turn up for my first day, I would have 3.5 mile spacing, and that would be it. Others who hadn't had my level of involvement in the project, or weren't as confident, might not).
Last edited by 2miles600feet; 25th Apr 2007 at 11:50. Reason: mistyped a 2 instead of a 3, thus renderimg entire post meaningless
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Can't see what all the fuss is about; it's been done before (Luton, Stansted, Farnborough, Edinburgh)
I suppose it is to be expected that someone comes on here and , quite rightly notes, that perhaps the largest and most complex VCR move that the UK has ever seen, invovling not only a new Flight Data presentation method, but also a different perspective, vastly different procedures associated with its' operation and a host of other new systems has all "been done before".
I think, Chevvron, you'll find that each element has been done before - but not every single one, on the same night, at (whether you like it or not) the busiest airport in the UK.
P7
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2mile600feet,
For some reason an oft-quoted idiom regarding wrestling pigs in mud comes to mind.
I'm not even going to dignify your caustic post with a response. If you believe your colleagues at Heathrow Tower have as little understanding of wider ATC as you seem to think I have, then nothing I say is going to change your mind.
Speaking of wider ATC matters, have I ever met you at one of the Network Management meetings?
For some reason an oft-quoted idiom regarding wrestling pigs in mud comes to mind.
I'm not even going to dignify your caustic post with a response. If you believe your colleagues at Heathrow Tower have as little understanding of wider ATC as you seem to think I have, then nothing I say is going to change your mind.
Speaking of wider ATC matters, have I ever met you at one of the Network Management meetings?
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Gonzo
I don't think Heathrow Tower controllers as a rule have as little understanding of wider ATC as you give the impression that you have. I think Heathrow ATC is doing an outstanding job.
I'm sorry that you found my post caustic. I personally found your assertation that you 'don't care' about the agreed and promulgated arrival rate to be extremely arrogant, and whether you like it or not does belie a rather insular outlook against the wider ATC perspective.
I don't think I've met you at a Network Management Meeting. I'm sure I'd have remembered it.
I don't think Heathrow Tower controllers as a rule have as little understanding of wider ATC as you give the impression that you have. I think Heathrow ATC is doing an outstanding job.
I'm sorry that you found my post caustic. I personally found your assertation that you 'don't care' about the agreed and promulgated arrival rate to be extremely arrogant, and whether you like it or not does belie a rather insular outlook against the wider ATC perspective.
I don't think I've met you at a Network Management Meeting. I'm sure I'd have remembered it.
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So it works, but..
It works with flowed inbound rate, and every assistance possible given to the controller.
I am sure it will continue to work in the future. However we have to realise that we have made the task of the Heathrow ATCO considerably harder in moving to the NVCR. I would imagine that in a few weeks when there are no longer loads of "helpers" hanging around, when BA lose the ability to park and we are sitting in a CB its going to get a lot harder.
With the new systems, conditions, lack of facilities and sore feet! .Will we have any chance in attracting training and retaining the staff we need over the next 5 years?
I appreciate that a lot of hard work has gone into this project but it is a long way from being a success, watch this space.
It works with flowed inbound rate, and every assistance possible given to the controller.
I am sure it will continue to work in the future. However we have to realise that we have made the task of the Heathrow ATCO considerably harder in moving to the NVCR. I would imagine that in a few weeks when there are no longer loads of "helpers" hanging around, when BA lose the ability to park and we are sitting in a CB its going to get a lot harder.
With the new systems, conditions, lack of facilities and sore feet! .Will we have any chance in attracting training and retaining the staff we need over the next 5 years?
I appreciate that a lot of hard work has gone into this project but it is a long way from being a success, watch this space.
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flybhoy....
''I for one am very proud of the achievement of everyone at the unit, especially when considering that within one day we were back to almost the same traffic levels prior to the move!!''
very true.... but EAT's for the majority of the day due to the increased spacing on final. get those down and you have another big tick in a box. i may even buy you an ice cream for doing so well.....
W
''I for one am very proud of the achievement of everyone at the unit, especially when considering that within one day we were back to almost the same traffic levels prior to the move!!''
very true.... but EAT's for the majority of the day due to the increased spacing on final. get those down and you have another big tick in a box. i may even buy you an ice cream for doing so well.....
W
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EAT's indeed ... we were holding en-route for LL today (admittedly not the rarity I make it out to be). However, in fairness, not as bad as I expected, it seems to be going rather well. I imagine it is considerably worse for our West Drayton colleagues having pretty much no respite this morning.
All in all - given that teething troubles are normal - surely a well done to all involved for making it work.
WW
I imagine it is considerably worse for our West Drayton colleagues having pretty much no respite this morning.All in all - given that teething troubles are normal - surely a well done to all involved for making it work.
WW
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Well there certainly will be a lot of back slapping going on in Natsmag,Airway whatever it called now,in the next edition.World's busiest International Airport,Blah blah seemless transition blah blah,leading the world etc blah 
blah.Give it a few months and they will wonder what as the fuss was about.
Yellow Snow,
The Honkers guys got zip for moving the whole airport.Just had to get up earlier.They also had just as complicated a trip through airside.Not even a new pair of boots.Other people just got on with it.
blah.Give it a few months and they will wonder what as the fuss was about. Yellow Snow,
The Honkers guys got zip for moving the whole airport.Just had to get up earlier.They also had just as complicated a trip through airside.Not even a new pair of boots.Other people just got on with it.