Thought you chaps may appreciate this
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Thought you chaps may appreciate this
Hi all
I found this link earlier today and all I can say is...well done that man!
http://home.online.no/~chainly/JFKGround.mp3
Out of interest is there more than one ground frequency at JFK?
Enjoy!
Ant
I found this link earlier today and all I can say is...well done that man!
http://home.online.no/~chainly/JFKGround.mp3
Out of interest is there more than one ground frequency at JFK?
Enjoy!
Ant
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montréal, Canada
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Ant,
I hope I'm not bursting your bubble but as far as I'm concerned this sounds like one of the worst example of ground control... since there isn't any. The man is supposed to be qualified in a high density unit but has very poor frequency management skills and issues control instructions only once out of every three transmissions. The other two being snide remarks to pilots about what mess they have made and explaining to everyone how much he's lost the picture.
Clearly he's busy beyond reason and eventually got everyone where they wanted to go (maybe) , but it's certainly not a great example of moving tin.
Cheers,
Felix
I hope I'm not bursting your bubble but as far as I'm concerned this sounds like one of the worst example of ground control... since there isn't any. The man is supposed to be qualified in a high density unit but has very poor frequency management skills and issues control instructions only once out of every three transmissions. The other two being snide remarks to pilots about what mess they have made and explaining to everyone how much he's lost the picture.
Clearly he's busy beyond reason and eventually got everyone where they wanted to go (maybe) , but it's certainly not a great example of moving tin.
Cheers,
Felix
Agree with #3. Couldn't listen to it all.
Busy beyond reason? Possibly. But if that's a typical example of his controlling, a lot of the workload is self induced.
Inept, is a word that springs to mind.
Busy beyond reason? Possibly. But if that's a typical example of his controlling, a lot of the workload is self induced.
Inept, is a word that springs to mind.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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"your who, doing what, short of where???"
I must be missing a page in the attachment to appendix E.
I would love to have seen a video to go with that - the a/c going in circles nowhere and spilt screen, his expressions to go with the calls.
Very funny.
I must be missing a page in the attachment to appendix E.
I would love to have seen a video to go with that - the a/c going in circles nowhere and spilt screen, his expressions to go with the calls.
Very funny.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.." 
"Devil's advocate": Was it at night? Maybe somebody started it all by taking a wrong turn. (There is talk of a "Hawker" cutting in front). Several times the freq. is "stepped on". Somebody calls for push back or taxi but are on a wrong freq. or not ready. The pilots are really trying to help, I think - getting the "picture" across - or back - to the controller.
"God's advocate": If this guy is getting in this kind of mess every day, yes, maybe he is in the wrong place?
"Devil's advocate": Was it at night? Maybe somebody started it all by taking a wrong turn. (There is talk of a "Hawker" cutting in front). Several times the freq. is "stepped on". Somebody calls for push back or taxi but are on a wrong freq. or not ready. The pilots are really trying to help, I think - getting the "picture" across - or back - to the controller.
"God's advocate": If this guy is getting in this kind of mess every day, yes, maybe he is in the wrong place?
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Normt ally Right Blank,
I'm certainly not trying to understate the gentleman's workload and/or the complexity of his workload. From what I understand of the story, the airport was completely fogged-in and he was relying on ASDE (surface Radar) only which only worsened as data tags aren't available yet on all ASDEs... and oviously not in that case.
My point was only that he could have helped himself a little bit by not spending so much time criticizing a pilot''s mistake and repeating incredulously the information the pilots gave him while trying to help.
He certainly was in a pickle... no doubt about that, though, and in the end got everybody away. Good for him!
SAO
I'm certainly not trying to understate the gentleman's workload and/or the complexity of his workload. From what I understand of the story, the airport was completely fogged-in and he was relying on ASDE (surface Radar) only which only worsened as data tags aren't available yet on all ASDEs... and oviously not in that case.
My point was only that he could have helped himself a little bit by not spending so much time criticizing a pilot''s mistake and repeating incredulously the information the pilots gave him while trying to help.
He certainly was in a pickle... no doubt about that, though, and in the end got everybody away. Good for him!
SAO
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Just threw in "another view". Apart from the "punters": "I've never lost the picture".
I've been "pickled" many times through the years. (and I remember them all!
)
I also heard some "advice" in the background - (some giggles by the way).
The non standard R/T. The trying to "disarm" - "Come up here, You work it out?"
I don't see a student about to leave the facility. I see a guy fighting for his "life". (And using all the tricks he knows).
Some days it's like "ping pong". You get the ball over the net, but you can't really tell how.
Best regards
P.S. By the way "Standard R/T" - with it's yearly changes - works for me.
Apart from the "punters": "I've never lost the picture".I've been "pickled" many times through the years. (and I remember them all!
)I also heard some "advice" in the background - (some giggles by the way).
The non standard R/T. The trying to "disarm" - "Come up here, You work it out?"
I don't see a student about to leave the facility. I see a guy fighting for his "life". (And using all the tricks he knows).
Some days it's like "ping pong". You get the ball over the net, but you can't really tell how.
Best regards
P.S. By the way "Standard R/T" - with it's yearly changes - works for me.
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Out of interest is there more than one ground frequency at JFK?
Only 121.9 (and UHF) according to this:
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KJFK (airport diagram on PDF).
Best Regards
Only 121.9 (and UHF) according to this:
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KJFK (airport diagram on PDF).
Best Regards
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and don't forget, when you're loosing it and pilots "try to help" all they do is break in in your efforts to get it back. They don't really help at all. It would be better if they'd just be quiet untill they are asked a question and than answer it. That would also enable them to really listen.
