Spare a thought for MACC ATSA's
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Spare a thought for MACC ATSA's
What happens to MACC ATSA's when NPC finally becomes reality?
Here's my options:
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to Scotland and hope you have a job that is more robust than SACTA.
Go to Scotland and hope you have a job that isn't made redundant 5 years later when SACTA comes in!
Get re-employed 6 Months later when ATC System (known as SACTA) fails and then get laid off when fixed!
Go somewhere else!!
Go and kill yourself!!
The last suggestion really is tongue-in-cheek!
Will relocation be part of any redundancy package?
A serious question for those on the wings!!!
Regards to the Barron!!!
Here's my options:
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to the tower.
Go to Scotland and hope you have a job that is more robust than SACTA.
Go to Scotland and hope you have a job that isn't made redundant 5 years later when SACTA comes in!
Get re-employed 6 Months later when ATC System (known as SACTA) fails and then get laid off when fixed!
Go somewhere else!!
Go and kill yourself!!
The last suggestion really is tongue-in-cheek!
Will relocation be part of any redundancy package?
A serious question for those on the wings!!!
Regards to the Barron!!!
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Ayr-in-your-jockstrap,
I sympathise completely with your position. I am afraid when it comes to people in the ATSA grade, management have no concern about your fears or doubts. They will ignore the situation then when forced to, prevaricate and deliberately mislead you until the technical solution has been found then you will be dumped. This is nothing personal and I am sure that in a few years as tecnology progresses atcos will find themselves in the same position. Heres a radical solution!, there is or will be a surplus of ATSAs so instead of recruiting new staff from outside nats why not give the surplus ATSAs a go at becoming controllers if they so wish. They surely cannot do any worse than the existing students, after all controlling is hardly rocket science is it.
I sympathise completely with your position. I am afraid when it comes to people in the ATSA grade, management have no concern about your fears or doubts. They will ignore the situation then when forced to, prevaricate and deliberately mislead you until the technical solution has been found then you will be dumped. This is nothing personal and I am sure that in a few years as tecnology progresses atcos will find themselves in the same position. Heres a radical solution!, there is or will be a surplus of ATSAs so instead of recruiting new staff from outside nats why not give the surplus ATSAs a go at becoming controllers if they so wish. They surely cannot do any worse than the existing students, after all controlling is hardly rocket science is it.
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I believe a few of TC atsas are in the same position... they will have to move to swanwick, but not all jobs are guaranteed... some will be lost a few years down the line. A bit off if you have to move your whole family, then be 'asked' to take early retirement.
Note the "I believe".... I am not 100% sure, maybe a TC ATSA can enlighten us
Note the "I believe".... I am not 100% sure, maybe a TC ATSA can enlighten us
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Heres a radical solution!, there is or will be a surplus of ATSAs so instead of recruiting new staff from outside nats why not give the surplus ATSAs a go at becoming controllers if they so wish. They surely cannot do any worse than the existing students, after all controlling is hardly rocket science is it.
Give me a keen atsa over a uni graduate who doesn't know one end of an aeroplane to another and who is attracted just by the salary any day of the week.
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Porco,
I am sorry if I mislead you, I was being sarcastic. The point I was trying to make is that nats has existing staff who are familiar with ATC and its environs and are a known "quantity" and are highly qualified who they potentially intend to make redundant. One the other hand they are recruiting external candidates most of whom have no experience and some of whom their motives are suspect (in it for the pay cheque). It is utter nonsense!
I am sorry if I mislead you, I was being sarcastic. The point I was trying to make is that nats has existing staff who are familiar with ATC and its environs and are a known "quantity" and are highly qualified who they potentially intend to make redundant. One the other hand they are recruiting external candidates most of whom have no experience and some of whom their motives are suspect (in it for the pay cheque). It is utter nonsense!
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Hmm! Not heard this one. What the latest news from the "far north" then?
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Porco,
I am sorry if I mislead you, I was being sarcastic. The point I was trying to make is that nats has existing staff who are familiar with ATC and its environs and are a known "quantity" and are highly qualified who they potentially intend to make redundant. One the other hand they are recruiting external candidates most of whom have no experience and some of whom their motives are suspect (in it for the pay cheque). It is utter nonsense!
I am sorry if I mislead you, I was being sarcastic. The point I was trying to make is that nats has existing staff who are familiar with ATC and its environs and are a known "quantity" and are highly qualified who they potentially intend to make redundant. One the other hand they are recruiting external candidates most of whom have no experience and some of whom their motives are suspect (in it for the pay cheque). It is utter nonsense!
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What about those ATSA'a who are ex trainee controllers would you include them in this redistribution of skills. I know of a few who have made enquiries about possibly getting back into the controlling side of things jsut to be told by management that there is no procedure for that sort of thing, and wait for the next trawl for failed trainees.
This next trawl is probably going to be in about 2 years after those succesful from the last one have had time to train, so the effectiveness of giving failed ATCO's another try.
This next trawl is probably going to be in about 2 years after those succesful from the last one have had time to train, so the effectiveness of giving failed ATCO's another try.
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"Heres a radical solution!, there is or will be a surplus of ATSAs so instead of recruiting new staff from outside nats why not give the surplus ATSAs a go at becoming controllers if they so wish. They surely cannot do any worse than the existing students, after all controlling is hardly rocket science is it."
This is no radical solution, it's a realistic and dam right fantastic idea, and surely money saving for the company as we will now have to employ jumped up uni students who just fancy getting paid to do a job they have no interest in.
Most ATSA's have a huge interest in aviation(otherwise why would they put up with some ATCO's
) only joking.
But on the serious side, cant someone close to Mr Barron put this idea to him, it'd save a whole lot of upset when people get laid off, plus training could be cut shorter due to ATSA Air Traffic knowledge.
ATSA's get behind this!!
Just an idea, no doubt someone will kick the idea back in its place.
This is no radical solution, it's a realistic and dam right fantastic idea, and surely money saving for the company as we will now have to employ jumped up uni students who just fancy getting paid to do a job they have no interest in.
Most ATSA's have a huge interest in aviation(otherwise why would they put up with some ATCO's
) only joking. But on the serious side, cant someone close to Mr Barron put this idea to him, it'd save a whole lot of upset when people get laid off, plus training could be cut shorter due to ATSA Air Traffic knowledge.
ATSA's get behind this!!
Just an idea, no doubt someone will kick the idea back in its place.
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TATC
one can re apply after x amount of years if one has failed a rating course. Whether one is employed as an ATSA should be neither here nor there as long as the pre requisite (x) number of years have passed.
I for one think we should be looking to ATSAs to apply; they might not make it, but i reckon the pass rate percentile would be higher than for the same number of people just off the street. And the ATSAs would have a bit more insight into ATC, something the new course structures do not, sadly, allow students to achieve.
However, I am sure Barron et al would be against ATSAs applying as they would go to the college on their current pay, hence an ex ATSA trainee would cost more than a £10k + sell the Big Issue to stay alive, off the street trainee.
And therein lies the crux of the problem methinks - management short term outlook - money over results
one can re apply after x amount of years if one has failed a rating course. Whether one is employed as an ATSA should be neither here nor there as long as the pre requisite (x) number of years have passed.
I for one think we should be looking to ATSAs to apply; they might not make it, but i reckon the pass rate percentile would be higher than for the same number of people just off the street. And the ATSAs would have a bit more insight into ATC, something the new course structures do not, sadly, allow students to achieve.
However, I am sure Barron et al would be against ATSAs applying as they would go to the college on their current pay, hence an ex ATSA trainee would cost more than a £10k + sell the Big Issue to stay alive, off the street trainee.
And therein lies the crux of the problem methinks - management short term outlook - money over results
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TATC
one can re apply after x amount of years if one has failed a rating course. Whether one is employed as an ATSA should be neither here nor there as long as the pre requisite (x) number of years have passed.
I for one think we should be looking to ATSAs to apply; they might not make it, but i reckon the pass rate percentile would be higher than for the same number of people just off the street. And the ATSAs would have a bit more insight into ATC, something the new course structures do not, sadly, allow students to achieve.
However, I am sure Barron et al would be against ATSAs applying as they would go to the college on their current pay, hence an ex ATSA trainee would cost more than a £10k + sell the Big Issue to stay alive, off the street trainee.
And therein lies the crux of the problem methinks - management short term outlook - money over results
one can re apply after x amount of years if one has failed a rating course. Whether one is employed as an ATSA should be neither here nor there as long as the pre requisite (x) number of years have passed.
I for one think we should be looking to ATSAs to apply; they might not make it, but i reckon the pass rate percentile would be higher than for the same number of people just off the street. And the ATSAs would have a bit more insight into ATC, something the new course structures do not, sadly, allow students to achieve.
However, I am sure Barron et al would be against ATSAs applying as they would go to the college on their current pay, hence an ex ATSA trainee would cost more than a £10k + sell the Big Issue to stay alive, off the street trainee.
And therein lies the crux of the problem methinks - management short term outlook - money over results
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TATC;
I believe if you have failed at a unit, the same applies. If you got as far as a board and failed 3 attempts, I think (though stand to be corrected) that you can try again after 5 years?
This is all off the top of my head - someone else out there may have the figures to hand.
I believe if you have failed at a unit, the same applies. If you got as far as a board and failed 3 attempts, I think (though stand to be corrected) that you can try again after 5 years?
This is all off the top of my head - someone else out there may have the figures to hand.
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QWERTY9 - that ATSA's are indeed being encouraged to go for a cadetship - I have heard on the grapevine that this is the case and a few of the ATSA's at my unit are going on cadetships too
louby
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As a current ATSA who is due to start college in January I have had huge amounts of encouragement in applying for a cadetship from my immediate line manager and unit management.
Whether this is because they are fed up of having me around or not is another matter though
Whether this is because they are fed up of having me around or not is another matter though
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NPC opens Autumn 2010. It's now Autumn 2006. That gives you almost 4 years to find an alternative. How many companies give you 4 years notice of redundancy?
Face it: If your job is being replaced by a machine, you are redundant. You can either sit around and moan about how unfair it is and hope the company gives you more than statutory redundancy, or you can spend the 4 years training, searching or whatever you need to do to resolve the situation.
ATCOs will eventually be in the same boat if you believe some of the techno experts about the future of ATM.
Retiring into the foxhole to await the barrage..
Face it: If your job is being replaced by a machine, you are redundant. You can either sit around and moan about how unfair it is and hope the company gives you more than statutory redundancy, or you can spend the 4 years training, searching or whatever you need to do to resolve the situation.
ATCOs will eventually be in the same boat if you believe some of the techno experts about the future of ATM.
Retiring into the foxhole to await the barrage..
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with the introduction of SAATS the new Oceanic flight data processing system next tue (18 nov) evening. The Oceanic ATSA staff are going to be reduced over the next twelve months by up to 15 ATSA's. Reduced from 45 to 30. There are also planning to reduce the Airways ATSA's over the next 12 months as well, I don't know by how many. Some of the ATSA's are not old enough to consider VSS a viable option and will have to consider a posting to keep their jobs, MACC vacancies were mentioned to them.