Is being an ATCA a step in the right direction??
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Is being an ATCA a step in the right direction??
Just wondering if I should apply to become an assistant, not quite sure if its the road to go down.
What do assistants actually do? what tasks do they perform?... is the position difficult?
Are there possibilities that the position could lead to becoming an ATCO?
How are ATCA thought of by other positions with in ATC?
Any info/feedback would be much appreciated.
Cheers Pie
What do assistants actually do? what tasks do they perform?... is the position difficult?
Are there possibilities that the position could lead to becoming an ATCO?
How are ATCA thought of by other positions with in ATC?
Any info/feedback would be much appreciated.
Cheers Pie
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Your post attracts questions: If you are that interested in becoming an ATCO why not go straight for that?
ATC Assistants, or "Support staff" are a valuable part of the ATC team but what they do depends on where they work. At a busy NATS unit they will hold very responsible positions assisting the controllers with a myriad of tasks from supplying them with flight progress strips off the printer to working the airfield lighting systems. In between those tasks they may be liaising with adjacent airfields to pass clearances, fielding phone calls from the supervisor's desk, provide flight planning and briefing information to pilots and airlines, making routine weather observations, acting as radio operators on FIR frequencies.... etc, etc. And there are still a thousand things I haven't mentioned! Of course, at some small places they might just be dogsbodies who make tea for the AFISO......
In NATS the ATSA position is undoubtedly a step towards ATCO and evidence of dedication and efficiency in the role will be among the considerations by the Watch Manager when writing his recommendation.
How are they thought of?? Years ago there were "divisions" between the two ATC grades but that did not exist on the watches I worked on at Heathrow and West Drayton. I, and most of my colleagues, treated them as equals because most of them are spectacularly good at their jobs and we simply could not work without them.
ATC Assistants, or "Support staff" are a valuable part of the ATC team but what they do depends on where they work. At a busy NATS unit they will hold very responsible positions assisting the controllers with a myriad of tasks from supplying them with flight progress strips off the printer to working the airfield lighting systems. In between those tasks they may be liaising with adjacent airfields to pass clearances, fielding phone calls from the supervisor's desk, provide flight planning and briefing information to pilots and airlines, making routine weather observations, acting as radio operators on FIR frequencies.... etc, etc. And there are still a thousand things I haven't mentioned! Of course, at some small places they might just be dogsbodies who make tea for the AFISO......
In NATS the ATSA position is undoubtedly a step towards ATCO and evidence of dedication and efficiency in the role will be among the considerations by the Watch Manager when writing his recommendation.
How are they thought of?? Years ago there were "divisions" between the two ATC grades but that did not exist on the watches I worked on at Heathrow and West Drayton. I, and most of my colleagues, treated them as equals because most of them are spectacularly good at their jobs and we simply could not work without them.
Last edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR; 26th Aug 2006 at 13:29.
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Thanks HD,
The position in question is not at a NATS location, but a relatively smaller airfield. I am interested in becoming an ATCO, I just thought this route may provide good experience as well as open a few doors in my favor.
Think I need to do a bit more digging!
Thanks again!
The position in question is not at a NATS location, but a relatively smaller airfield. I am interested in becoming an ATCO, I just thought this route may provide good experience as well as open a few doors in my favor.
Think I need to do a bit more digging!
Thanks again!
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OK. I recommend you have a look at CAP744, which can be downloaded free of charge here: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1128
If you did obtain a post at that "relatively small airfield" you might have trouble progressing if they did not have proper training facilities for ATCOs.
Good luck with your efforts - I was in a similar position almost exactly 40 years ago..
If you did obtain a post at that "relatively small airfield" you might have trouble progressing if they did not have proper training facilities for ATCOs.
Good luck with your efforts - I was in a similar position almost exactly 40 years ago..
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Good luck to you Meat Pie. As HD said we were in the same position some 40 years ago and I am happy to confirm that our team included ATCAs as they were known in my LATCC days. Go into the CAA site and look for the information that you need - I'm not going to spoonfeed you - you learn more by hunting yourself. Most interviewers look for a person that has a provable background in aviation interest (madness?) Did you make model aircraft? were you in the Air Training Corps? etc etc. The ATSA job is a good introduction to aviation and will stand you in good stead for your future.
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meat pie,
As HD has previously said, why not go straight for ATCO with NATS?
But to add an answer your question. These days there is a shortage of ATCO's. More and more of the smaller airfields are returning to training ATCA's to ATCO's (through one of three colleges).
Why?... They have the advantage of maybe a couple of years to get to know the ATCA, and therefore a chance to assess there suitability to pass the training. Also a lack of ATCO's in general, and competition for the one's out there.
If you follow this route, you will either by bonded for around 3 years per rating, or required to sign a loan agreement of some kind. This just helps to guarantee your commitment to stay at the unit that has just invested 10's of thousands of £'s in your training.
Also as HD said, a good ATCA is worth their weight in gold. Yes you will get some mundane jobs, but you will also have alot of responsibility.
Each unit will utilise ATCA's in different ways. Try to visit some units to see what they do.
A packet of biscuits is usually all you need to secure a visit.
As HD has previously said, why not go straight for ATCO with NATS?
But to add an answer your question. These days there is a shortage of ATCO's. More and more of the smaller airfields are returning to training ATCA's to ATCO's (through one of three colleges).
Why?... They have the advantage of maybe a couple of years to get to know the ATCA, and therefore a chance to assess there suitability to pass the training. Also a lack of ATCO's in general, and competition for the one's out there.
If you follow this route, you will either by bonded for around 3 years per rating, or required to sign a loan agreement of some kind. This just helps to guarantee your commitment to stay at the unit that has just invested 10's of thousands of £'s in your training.
Also as HD said, a good ATCA is worth their weight in gold. Yes you will get some mundane jobs, but you will also have alot of responsibility.
Each unit will utilise ATCA's in different ways. Try to visit some units to see what they do.
A packet of biscuits is usually all you need to secure a visit.
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Sorry guys and gals, but I cannot endorse the comments made about the NATS ATSA positions. We are a dying breed - particularly so at certain Units where ATSA2s are employed. Areas of responsibility have disappeared with the years, and it is no longer the job it was even just a few years ago. Automation is the NATS way forward, and many lower grade ATSAs don't figure in the plans. Read the NATS 2005/6 Business Plan for details about EFPS, iFACTS, Caspian etc.
As for becoming a NATS ATSA being a step towards becoming an ATCO...
maybe a very very few exceptions to the rule, but realistically you will have far more chance with NATS if you go straight for the cadetship. This is the route I am currently advising my daughter to follow.
I do not apologise for this negative post - I feel any prospective employee needs to know the truth, whether it hurts or not. NATS HR will certainly not tell you how it really is - ask those in the front line if you want a truthful answer.
As for becoming a NATS ATSA being a step towards becoming an ATCO...
maybe a very very few exceptions to the rule, but realistically you will have far more chance with NATS if you go straight for the cadetship. This is the route I am currently advising my daughter to follow.I do not apologise for this negative post - I feel any prospective employee needs to know the truth, whether it hurts or not. NATS HR will certainly not tell you how it really is - ask those in the front line if you want a truthful answer.
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White Hart is quite correct I'm afraid. And NATS is now only employing ATSA's on variable contracts. This is so that when new technology comes in they can reduce the ATSA numbers by waving good bye to these contract staff without redundancy costs.
However, wheels are in motion at the moment to change the way current NATS ATSA's are selected for a cadetship. Instead of having to go through the same process as an external applicant, they are looking at some sort of recommendation (i think) and practical assessment. Details are hazy and this probably being quite a "LEAP" for NATS means that those wheels will be turning quite slowly me thinks....
But this may be a sensible way of trying to remedy the horrendous abinitio validation rate (particularly at LACC).
Any thoughts from the special people on here with regard to a change in the selection process for ATSA's??
However, wheels are in motion at the moment to change the way current NATS ATSA's are selected for a cadetship. Instead of having to go through the same process as an external applicant, they are looking at some sort of recommendation (i think) and practical assessment. Details are hazy and this probably being quite a "LEAP" for NATS means that those wheels will be turning quite slowly me thinks....
But this may be a sensible way of trying to remedy the horrendous abinitio validation rate (particularly at LACC).
Any thoughts from the special people on here with regard to a change in the selection process for ATSA's??
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Thanks for the info, i can see that being an ATSA for NATS may not be a wise move. Only i am more looking at ATSA positions at "smaller" none Nats units. Do you think the same problems could happen to these jobs with ever expanding technology? Also I suppose there is the chance of Nats taking over theses airfields and again same issues occurring.
Is there anyone who works for a none Nats unit, who would like to comment??
Is there anyone who works for a none Nats unit, who would like to comment??
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Call me controversial, but the system of personal recommendation and annual staff reports were what we had years ago when selecting atsa staff for atco training. If this kind of system were to be introduced would there be any need for expensive selection tests, HR departments, and all the other atco managers to "manage" the existing arrangements. It seems to me to be a straight forward and common sense system with the added benefit of reducing the number of personal fiefdoms involved in the present farce and therefore despite its obvious advantages it will not be adopted.
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I was interested in becoming an ATCO but had been rejected once by NATS so wrote to every (non-NATS) airport in the country to see what they had going. That resulted in being taken on as a Flight Briefing Assistant with SERCo, which led to an ATSA position at the same airport. Then I applied again to NATS and got in, thanks in no small part to my experience and determination. Am now an ATCO at a London Airport. Never give up and be prepared to work anywhere in aviation, if you want it that badly. Being an ATSA is great - you get all the perks of the job except the money, but none of the stress!
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Spangly... Sounds like you're a re-incarnation or me. I still treasure the letter from the Ministry of Aviation back in the early 60s telling me I was unsuitable to be an ATCA (only have 2 O Levels). I plodded on via the alternative channels and ended us as an ATCO so I wish you every bit of luck in the world for your perseverance.
As for no stress in the job - Make that man a lighting operator!!!!
As for no stress in the job - Make that man a lighting operator!!!!
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Yes, the money is good, but 'perks' are usually regarded as something supplementary to the basic T&Cs. So, is salary really a 'perk'? Don't think so.
But just going back to MP's original question - life's all about decision making. If you think that being an ATCA (NATS or non-NATS) may be a good step towards an ATCO career, then go for it - but a word of caution - do your homework first! Check out all prospective employers' future game plans and career options for non-ATCO grades, and as with NATS, watch out for any mention of 'new technology' - seek clarification wherever possible.
Visits to prospective places of employment are always time well spent, so get writing/phoning to the Units of your choice. With NATS Units, check out the details about Variable Contract ATSAs - there is much ambiguity here concerning their place in the big scheme of things, especially when it comes to 'who stays and who goes'. You will need to speak to NATS HR for their side of the story, then go and speak to the Local PCS Representative for the Union's perspective on things. Don't be surprised to get two differing explanations about VCA Terms and Conditions!
and finally, don't let anybody talk you into or out of making a decision. (and especially on here! har har!!) Use the grey matter - and be sure to make that decision yourself. Good luck.
But just going back to MP's original question - life's all about decision making. If you think that being an ATCA (NATS or non-NATS) may be a good step towards an ATCO career, then go for it - but a word of caution - do your homework first! Check out all prospective employers' future game plans and career options for non-ATCO grades, and as with NATS, watch out for any mention of 'new technology' - seek clarification wherever possible.
Visits to prospective places of employment are always time well spent, so get writing/phoning to the Units of your choice. With NATS Units, check out the details about Variable Contract ATSAs - there is much ambiguity here concerning their place in the big scheme of things, especially when it comes to 'who stays and who goes'. You will need to speak to NATS HR for their side of the story, then go and speak to the Local PCS Representative for the Union's perspective on things. Don't be surprised to get two differing explanations about VCA Terms and Conditions!
and finally, don't let anybody talk you into or out of making a decision. (and especially on here! har har!!) Use the grey matter - and be sure to make that decision yourself. Good luck.
Last edited by White Hart; 19th Sep 2006 at 15:16. Reason: its a nice sunny day
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White Heart
Thank you for your feed back, Ive an interview next week so ill dig around and find out any relevant info. Then hopefully make a sensible decision.
Many Thanks again
Pie
Thank you for your feed back, Ive an interview next week so ill dig around and find out any relevant info. Then hopefully make a sensible decision.
Many Thanks again
Pie
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MP
I wrote to Leeds Bradford many moons ago in the hope of a job. It appeared they ran a five year training plan i.e. your first five years were spent as an assistant then you would begin ATCO training. I don't know if this is still the case. Perhaps someone from LBA can shed some light?
Good Luck
I wrote to Leeds Bradford many moons ago in the hope of a job. It appeared they ran a five year training plan i.e. your first five years were spent as an assistant then you would begin ATCO training. I don't know if this is still the case. Perhaps someone from LBA can shed some light?
Good Luck
