Question: Why are ATC always "Sir"?
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could it be related to the old military days? As ATCOs we are by definition Air Traffic Control Officers and all male Officers in the services should be called "Sir"
Just my two pennies worth!
Just my two pennies worth!
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I don't particularly wish to be addressed as "Sir" and I would take exception to being called "Madam" - then you really would be rude!
Mademoiselle might be quite nice but Miss would be patronizing.
Cheers
Whirls
Mademoiselle might be quite nice but Miss would be patronizing.
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sir
If you look at the amount of non-native English speakers in aviation who have to speak English on the radio such as myself, the word "sir" is what comes the most naturally for addressing a gentleman who's name one doesn't know. Also, I think it communicates a certain level of respect... I've also had controllers address me as sir, it find it to be professional sounding.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the strange people on here who seem to be against the practice should listen to ship-to-shore communications where the use of "Sir" is far more common than on ATC frequencies...
Next time you're on your £500k powerboat in the Solent listen to Southampton VTS or Portsmouth QHM and you'll see what I mean..
Oh yes... one other thing. I'm a Radio Amateur and in the past I made contact several times with a well-known King who was an avid ham. When he first established contact with other amateurs, before names were exchanged, he would always refer to them as "Sir". Now if a King calls me "Sir" (and he did, several times) that's good enough for me!
Next time you're on your £500k powerboat in the Solent listen to Southampton VTS or Portsmouth QHM and you'll see what I mean..
Oh yes... one other thing. I'm a Radio Amateur and in the past I made contact several times with a well-known King who was an avid ham. When he first established contact with other amateurs, before names were exchanged, he would always refer to them as "Sir". Now if a King calls me "Sir" (and he did, several times) that's good enough for me!
Last edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR; 15th Aug 2006 at 07:19.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: EGLL
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have flown in and out of LBA many times, there is one female controller who does throw her teddy out if you call her ma'am I know of certain pilots who do it on purpose to see the reaction. There is also another female ATCO who calls us sir which I do not agree with, I would rather she gets her left from her right sorted out before calling us sir. I do not have a knighthood and therefore do not want to be called sir.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Waleshire
Age: 60
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for all the replies.
All of the above being the case, I shall always refer to you controllers from now on as "**** knuckle".
I do get the impression from the previous posts that most controllers are anally retentive to a huge degree. God bless you all, but I hope to god I don't have to fly through your space anytime soon. (Unlikely since I'm military, thank the lord Jesus!)
All the best anyway, and take care in what you do.
QFI
All of the above being the case, I shall always refer to you controllers from now on as "**** knuckle".
I do get the impression from the previous posts that most controllers are anally retentive to a huge degree. God bless you all, but I hope to god I don't have to fly through your space anytime soon. (Unlikely since I'm military, thank the lord Jesus!)
All the best anyway, and take care in what you do.
QFI
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ILS 119.5. I feel very sorry for the girl at LBA and for you. The use of the term "Sir", as has been explained on here plenty, does not indicate rank or subservience. It's a polite mode of address.
OK sir?
OK sir?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Here, there and everywhere...
Age: 41
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sir,
I'm surprised by the differering opinions on this thread of the use of 'sir' in our everyday language. To back up what HD was saying, I feel the term 'sir' is often used a polite and professional way of addressing someone who's name is unknown, and i would rather someone address me as 'Sir' rather than 'mate', 'son', 'mush' or whatever....
I often use the word 'sir' when working in a professional environment because it does show respect, and I think it sounds more assertive and confident. However if I know the person's name I would opt for that. In ATC i'm sure its just a short, quick and polite way of ending the statment your saying.
I'm surprised by the differering opinions on this thread of the use of 'sir' in our everyday language. To back up what HD was saying, I feel the term 'sir' is often used a polite and professional way of addressing someone who's name is unknown, and i would rather someone address me as 'Sir' rather than 'mate', 'son', 'mush' or whatever....
I often use the word 'sir' when working in a professional environment because it does show respect, and I think it sounds more assertive and confident. However if I know the person's name I would opt for that. In ATC i'm sure its just a short, quick and polite way of ending the statment your saying.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: LONDON
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe that HC and FDD are entirely right.
I would refer to a police officer as sir; it is simply a mark of respect towards somebody you don't know personally. I guess originally it may also have been an acknowledgement of an ATCO's "authority" in a given piece of airspace but it certainly does not imply any superiority.
In "The House", MPs are addressed as honourable members but that doesn't imply superiority either. (As I understand it, using their name has a specific meaning and purpose relating to discipline)
Point 4
I would refer to a police officer as sir; it is simply a mark of respect towards somebody you don't know personally. I guess originally it may also have been an acknowledgement of an ATCO's "authority" in a given piece of airspace but it certainly does not imply any superiority.
In "The House", MPs are addressed as honourable members but that doesn't imply superiority either. (As I understand it, using their name has a specific meaning and purpose relating to discipline)
Point 4
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a military controller, I have always found it to be American military pilots who use Sir, or Ma'am (gender correct!) in their Rt. Personally I have always found it a bit quaint, but, if someone has the piloteness to call me sir at the end of their transmission, I have always been unfailing polite back, and also given them a bit of extra priority!? Similarly if someone is polite yet succinct on a LARS frequency I always make the extra effort too. Maybe that is just a lesson for life in general. I also (much to the CATEBs distaste) say G'day at the final transmission to an A/C. Not correct, but as the only LEO at this station no-one is going to correct me and if it makes the whole GAT world a nicer place to live in, who cares. A thank you for those who have gone a litlle bit out if their way to help you also does no harm!
Letters on a post card please.
Letters on a post card please.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SIR- A form of professional endearment with a meaning expressed by the tone of delivery..varies from sir to cur as previously noted..doesnt come across well on HF
The tone of delivery was best demonstrated by ASCOT callsigns..if you put on your best public school accent and called them Arse_Carts you could almost feel the waves of animosity coming at you...reserved for special occasions
PPRuDe
The tone of delivery was best demonstrated by ASCOT callsigns..if you put on your best public school accent and called them Arse_Carts you could almost feel the waves of animosity coming at you...reserved for special occasions
PPRuDe
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: usa
Age: 53
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simply loved this thread! Meant to dip my finger in earlier but was too taken with the direction the thread was taking. The HD fellow essentially gave the most palatable and universally acceptable response, with another response correctly explaining it to be non-standard.
If there was to be a “history” to this practise it may very well relate to the days without radar when ATC’s were applying separation and procedures born directly from the information supplied to them by pilots. This absolute reliance on ATC guidance during procedural/non-radar control possibly elevated ATC’s to a level that deemed the use of the word “Sir” as par-for-the-course. This is however just my conjecture.
I have some ATC colleagues who use the word “Sir” with a frequency that matches the bowel movements of someone with dysentery and is equally as unprofessional as it cheapens what I would imagine to be nothing more than a mutual respect for each others careers.
To me, “Sir” or “Ma’am” is of no consequence, what matters are quick finger-on-the-button responses.
TDR
If there was to be a “history” to this practise it may very well relate to the days without radar when ATC’s were applying separation and procedures born directly from the information supplied to them by pilots. This absolute reliance on ATC guidance during procedural/non-radar control possibly elevated ATC’s to a level that deemed the use of the word “Sir” as par-for-the-course. This is however just my conjecture.
I have some ATC colleagues who use the word “Sir” with a frequency that matches the bowel movements of someone with dysentery and is equally as unprofessional as it cheapens what I would imagine to be nothing more than a mutual respect for each others careers.
To me, “Sir” or “Ma’am” is of no consequence, what matters are quick finger-on-the-button responses.
TDR
TightYorksherMan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Peak District
Age: 41
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am very funny about using the word 'sir' at a military base due to the fact of comment if ATC is a NCO - 'I actually working for a living'
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for all the replies.
All of the above being the case, I shall always refer to you controllers from now on as "**** knuckle".
I do get the impression from the previous posts that most controllers are anally retentive to a huge degree. God bless you all, but I hope to god I don't have to fly through your space anytime soon. (Unlikely since I'm military, thank the lord Jesus!)
All the best anyway, and take care in what you do.
QFI
All of the above being the case, I shall always refer to you controllers from now on as "**** knuckle".
I do get the impression from the previous posts that most controllers are anally retentive to a huge degree. God bless you all, but I hope to god I don't have to fly through your space anytime soon. (Unlikely since I'm military, thank the lord Jesus!)
All the best anyway, and take care in what you do.
QFI
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Under bar stool
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was told by old military instructor that ATC should call all pilots sir as they were all commisioned and many ATC personnel were NCO's. This was just one of his many theories.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greystation
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Put it this way, I'm a polite sort of guy and think that pleasentries can have their time and place so will use them, but being a Manky boy I'm not going to be using "eh up ya nothern monkey", "mooooooooooooooo", or "nice one shag" on the RTF so for now "sir" or "madam" will do nicely and I'll keep the rest for the ops room thanks 