Question: Why are ATC always "Sir"?
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Question: Why are ATC always "Sir"?
Hello gents,
A genuine question for you ATC types regarding the practice of pilots addressing controllers as "Sir":
I once heard a controller tell a student, "Son, they call YOU sir, NEVER the other way around!"
Does anyone know why we do it, or indeed where the practice started?
Please note that this is a genuine enquiry as to the origins or reasons of the said practice. I don't get my knickers in a twist about it, neither should anyone else, so any "comedy" posts along the lines of "because we keep you in the air" aren't welcome thank you! I respect the work of our controllers, and am just after a serious reply, fact or speculation!
Many thanks all.
A genuine question for you ATC types regarding the practice of pilots addressing controllers as "Sir":
I once heard a controller tell a student, "Son, they call YOU sir, NEVER the other way around!"
Does anyone know why we do it, or indeed where the practice started?
Please note that this is a genuine enquiry as to the origins or reasons of the said practice. I don't get my knickers in a twist about it, neither should anyone else, so any "comedy" posts along the lines of "because we keep you in the air" aren't welcome thank you! I respect the work of our controllers, and am just after a serious reply, fact or speculation!
Many thanks all.
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It's surely just a polite method of greeting a gentleman who's name you do not know? I've been doing it since I was a kid, and continued to do so throughout my aviation career. They were "Sir" and I was often "Sir". There was no suggestion of any subserviant behaviour on either side.
Such niceties of our language are lost in modern culture...
As for the controller who told his trainee that pilots call him "Sir" and not the other way round....... sorry, I don't have time for that sort of person.
Such niceties of our language are lost in modern culture...
As for the controller who told his trainee that pilots call him "Sir" and not the other way round....... sorry, I don't have time for that sort of person.
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Sir ???
Its not as often heard as it used to be. I think it has probably crept in over the years from the days when a lot more civil controllers came into ATC from the military side. Or may'be its just some pilots who are ex military?????
"You should never call an Air Traffic Controller sir because it might give them delusions of adequacy....."
Well thats what an old training Captain once told me.....completely in jest
Well thats what an old training Captain once told me.....completely in jest
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
It's surely just a polite method of greeting a gentleman who's name you do not know? I've been doing it since I was a kid, and continued to do so throughout my aviation career. They were "Sir" and I was often "Sir". There was no suggestion of any subserviant behaviour on either side.
Such niceties of our language are lost in modern culture...
As for the controller who told his trainee that pilots call him "Sir" and not the other way round....... sorry, I don't have time for that sort of person.
Such niceties of our language are lost in modern culture...
As for the controller who told his trainee that pilots call him "Sir" and not the other way round....... sorry, I don't have time for that sort of person.
Thanks to all for the replies. I'm personally in agreement with Heathrow here, it's only manners. Not often seen today unfortunately.
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I personally like to use "Sir or Madam" whenever a pilot has done something for me, ie a good rate of climb or descent, accepting another level etc. In the same way I get called "Sir" whenever I was able to deliver a good service. By being friendly but firm you obtain the best relationship, even if this relationship only lasts for a short period. Be good to the pilots, they'll be good to you. Simplistic but it has worked and still works for me.
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Originally Posted by garp
I personally like to use "Sir or Madam" whenever a pilot has done something for me, ie a good rate of climb or descent, accepting another level etc. In the same way I get called "Sir" whenever I was able to deliver a good service. By being friendly but firm you obtain the best relationship, even if this relationship only lasts for a short period. Be good to the pilots, they'll be good to you. Simplistic but it has worked and still works for me.
Thank you.
Still doesn't explain the practice though!
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Hi QFI,I suppose HD's and garp's replies are just about spot on,addressing a pilot as sir or ma'am is a polite way of speaking to someone who'se name you don't know and especially if you have done us a favour like expediting or taking a different level to fit our plan. And to be honest it sounds more professional than calling you mate,squire,mucker or chief!
It's not something I do though,not that i'm impolite on the frequency or don't thank you if you've helped me out,it's just that I don't think I've ever called anyone sir in my life!I was never in the military so it's not something I would have been used to doing.I'll always address you with your callsign.
As for pilots calling me sir-it happens now and again,usually from the Americans some of whom have those old fashioned "sir and ma'am" manners that you just don't get in Britain any more,it's polite and friendly.
It's not something I do though,not that i'm impolite on the frequency or don't thank you if you've helped me out,it's just that I don't think I've ever called anyone sir in my life!I was never in the military so it's not something I would have been used to doing.I'll always address you with your callsign.
As for pilots calling me sir-it happens now and again,usually from the Americans some of whom have those old fashioned "sir and ma'am" manners that you just don't get in Britain any more,it's polite and friendly.
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Originally Posted by rolaaand
Hi QFI,I suppose HD's and garp's replies are just about spot on,addressing a pilot as sir or ma'am is a polite way of speaking to someone who'se name you don't know and especially if you have done us a favour like expediting or taking a different level to fit our plan. And to be honest it sounds more professional than calling you mate,squire,mucker or chief!
It's not something I do though,not that i'm impolite on the frequency or don't thank you if you've helped me out,it's just that I don't think I've ever called anyone sir in my life!I was never in the military so it's not something I would have been used to doing.I'll always address you with your callsign.
As for pilots calling me sir-it happens now and again,usually from the Americans some of whom have those old fashioned "sir and ma'am" manners that you just don't get in Britain any more,it's polite and friendly.
It's not something I do though,not that i'm impolite on the frequency or don't thank you if you've helped me out,it's just that I don't think I've ever called anyone sir in my life!I was never in the military so it's not something I would have been used to doing.I'll always address you with your callsign.
As for pilots calling me sir-it happens now and again,usually from the Americans some of whom have those old fashioned "sir and ma'am" manners that you just don't get in Britain any more,it's polite and friendly.
Unfortunately, some seem to have missed the point! (Yes even you Roalaaand!)
PLEASE read the lead thread!
I was wanting to know WHY TOWERS AS OPPOSED TO CAPTAINS CALL THEIR SUBJECTS SIR!! (Have you all got it now?)
I KNOW it is lovely to call each other sir, manners and all that......
I was asking though why towers say yes QFI, and QFI says yes "Sir".
Anyone have any trouble with this post now?
(I can't believe I've had to post that in that particular manner, god help the world!)
Prove me wrong controllers.......
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And I can't believe you posted what you just have, QFI. After all these polite replies, which boil down to common courtesy, you haven't seemed to understand that everyone has answered your question. Some people use "Sir" when they have the time/feel so inclined, and some don't. It's not in our books so it's up to the individual. There's no partcular history or reasons apart from those offered.
Looking at your lead post, which you've encouraged us to do, there's nothing in the English language that I know of that gives us the intent of what you think you want. Take a deep breath, re-read the replies you've got and understand that you've got what you asked for, SIR!
Looking at your lead post, which you've encouraged us to do, there's nothing in the English language that I know of that gives us the intent of what you think you want. Take a deep breath, re-read the replies you've got and understand that you've got what you asked for, SIR!
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ATC: ABC, confirm you're on level 65 or 85?
Pilot: Affirm
ATC: ABC, I say again. Confirm you're on level 65 or 85?
Pilot: Affirm
ATC: ABC, affirm what!!!!!
Pilot: Affirm Sir.
Pilot: Affirm
ATC: ABC, I say again. Confirm you're on level 65 or 85?
Pilot: Affirm
ATC: ABC, affirm what!!!!!
Pilot: Affirm Sir.
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Originally Posted by QFIhawkman
Wel thanks for the replies yet again.
Unfortunately, some seem to have missed the point! (Yes even you Roalaaand!)
I was wanting to know WHY TOWERS AS OPPOSED TO CAPTAINS CALL THEIR SUBJECTS SIR!! (Have you all got it now?).....
I was asking though why towers say yes QFI, and QFI says yes "Sir".
Anyone have any trouble with this post now?
QFI
Unfortunately, some seem to have missed the point! (Yes even you Roalaaand!)
I was wanting to know WHY TOWERS AS OPPOSED TO CAPTAINS CALL THEIR SUBJECTS SIR!! (Have you all got it now?).....
I was asking though why towers say yes QFI, and QFI says yes "Sir".
Anyone have any trouble with this post now?
QFI
As lifes2good said-it is perhaps a throwback to the military,which is a reason WHY sir may be used.If you read the quote i've extracted above,does it not contradict itself?On the one hand you want to know why towers as opposed to captains call thier subjects sir,and on the other hand why you(a pilot presumably!) says yes sir to ATC!
Having read your first post again though with the benefit of a good nights kip,I see what you meant.
Originally Posted by QFI
Why are ATC always "Sir"?
So your question is irrelevant, and based on a false premise. Clear enough?
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I was wanting to know WHY TOWERS AS OPPOSED TO CAPTAINS CALL THEIR SUBJECTS SIR!! (Have you all got it now?).....
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Whatever reasons are given above, use of "Sir" is non-standard! There are, therefroe no reasons.. it is a practice (that I for one find slightly annoying)
When HD justifies it as a polite term when you don't know the name of the person you are addressing, one assumes he would regularly end his transmissions with Tony, Sergio, Randy, or Maria... or whatever the pilot's name was if he recognised them (I don't think so)?
When HD justifies it as a polite term when you don't know the name of the person you are addressing, one assumes he would regularly end his transmissions with Tony, Sergio, Randy, or Maria... or whatever the pilot's name was if he recognised them (I don't think so)?
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Sorry Pierre... guess things are different in France (I assume that's where you are from your "handle").
I did not find the practice annoying in the slightest; in fact I found it all jolly nice!
I did not find the practice annoying in the slightest; in fact I found it all jolly nice!
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I was told by my instructor that it was used when the person saying "Sir" wanted to be rude! 
e.g.
"Isn't it polite of that ATC chap to call you Sir"!
"He wasn't being polite!"
Cheers
Whirls
e.g.
"Isn't it polite of that ATC chap to call you Sir"!
"He wasn't being polite!"
Cheers
Whirls