Couple of silly questions
Originally Posted by keithl
Karen: I've always thought an airfield was military and an airport civilian. My reason for this is that when I was in the RAF both controllers and pilots used the abbreviation 'field.. Examples; "identified 30 miles north of the field..." or "field in sight". I know the official documents talk about "Military Aerodromes", but no-one would have used aerodrome, or airport when referring to a military airfield. I noticed the difference when I went civvie a few years ago.
Speke: Yes, they weren't the best examples, but I was just "dashing off" a quick reply. I thought later it might have made the point better by comparing the mil "diversion airfield" with the civvy "alternate airport". I'm just recalling conversational usage rather than R/T. In conversation, (Caveats: In my time / In my part of the Air Force) no-one would have used "Aerodrome / Airport" in conversation. Only "Airfield".
keithl,
As another 'ex-mil', similar vintage, I entirely agree with your comment about 'conversational usage'.
(Mind you, my parents, both ex-WWII and now well into their 80s, still quaintly refer to my place of work as the 'drome !! )
As another 'ex-mil', similar vintage, I entirely agree with your comment about 'conversational usage'.
(Mind you, my parents, both ex-WWII and now well into their 80s, still quaintly refer to my place of work as the 'drome !! )
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But surely Gonzo you are basically saying the same thing to Heathrow inbounds whereas Gatwick Directors (never mind Essex Radar!!) are giving more varied instructions to inbound a/c?
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Goodness, thats abit scathing towards radar control isnt it?! I suppose they have the advantage fatter pay cheques at the end of the month but they might have alittle difficulty in identifying what an aircraft looks like.....
Surely though if you have been at the Heathrow VCR prior to '93 before TC sucked up your radars then you would have had a radar rating!
Surely though if you have been at the Heathrow VCR prior to '93 before TC sucked up your radars then you would have had a radar rating!
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At airfields, such as Gatwick, an ATCO might speak to maybe 60-70 a/c in one hour.
At airports, such as Heathrow, an ATCO might speak to 120+ a/c an hour.
At airports, such as Heathrow, an ATCO might speak to 120+ a/c an hour.
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At airfields, such as Gatwick, an ATCO might speak to maybe 60-70 a/c in one hour.
At airports, such as Heathrow, an ATCO might speak to 120+ a/c an hour.
So dividing those numbers by the number of runways in use (and bearing in mind one controller per runway); You are admitting that Gatwick is at the very least, as busy as Heathrow
Certainly confirms the fact that Gatwick is the busiest single operation runway in the world.
At airports, such as Heathrow, an ATCO might speak to 120+ a/c an hour.
So dividing those numbers by the number of runways in use (and bearing in mind one controller per runway); You are admitting that Gatwick is at the very least, as busy as Heathrow
Certainly confirms the fact that Gatwick is the busiest single operation runway in the world.
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I surely hope that they do not have fatter pay cheques!
Move Approach back at the tower, that's the way forward. Would sort out the LL Approach staffing problem!
Not if you read my post. 
Move Approach back at the tower, that's the way forward. Would sort out the LL Approach staffing problem!
You are admitting that Gatwick is at the very least, as busy as Heathrow
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I say Gonzo,aren't you EGLL tower only types just glorified car park attendants.
At least you guys know how to say ''Clearded to Land''.
Ever validated a Radar rating working in Class A,D,F,G airspace?
There are people who still validate tower and approach radar,north of Watford.
At least you guys know how to say ''Clearded to Land''.
Ever validated a Radar rating working in Class A,D,F,G airspace?
There are people who still validate tower and approach radar,north of Watford.
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Ok Gonzo, well I dont actually work for NATS or Air Traffic in any sense (failed applicant twice!
) but i am aware that the NATS payscale is based more on your time in the job (should know as my old man has worked for NATS for ther past god knows how many eons) so I take that back about approach controllers being on 'fatter paycheques' Although you could argue that radar has 'different' sorts of challenges. I have seen both sides of the operation both at Heathrow VCR and with your colleagues at TC and I can see that ensuring necessary vortex wake spacings would be pretty tricky on radar but remembering the names of all the holding points at Heathrow from a visual control point of view would be a complete nightmare!
) but i am aware that the NATS payscale is based more on your time in the job (should know as my old man has worked for NATS for ther past god knows how many eons) so I take that back about approach controllers being on 'fatter paycheques' Although you could argue that radar has 'different' sorts of challenges. I have seen both sides of the operation both at Heathrow VCR and with your colleagues at TC and I can see that ensuring necessary vortex wake spacings would be pretty tricky on radar but remembering the names of all the holding points at Heathrow from a visual control point of view would be a complete nightmare!
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Originally Posted by throw a dyce
I say Gonzo,aren't you EGLL tower only types just glorified car park attendants.
At least you guys know how to say ''Clearded to Land''.
Ever validated a Radar rating working in Class A,D,F,G airspace?
There are people who still validate tower and approach radar,north of Watford.
At least you guys know how to say ''Clearded to Land''.
Ever validated a Radar rating working in Class A,D,F,G airspace?
There are people who still validate tower and approach radar,north of Watford.
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Classicwings.
There are quite a few Nats units were Tower and Approach are the norm.Bristol,Cardiff,Birmingham,Manchester,Belfast,Glasgow,E dinburgh,Aberdeen,and Gibraltar spring to mind.Don't know about Aberporth?
Everyone is paid much less than Heathrow,and bar one (Manch) less than Gatwick.However ATC wise it's much more interesting than the sausage machines in the South.
Gonzo,
You Southern softies should listen to a certain Billy Connolly when he says there is no such thing as bad weather,just the wrong kind of clothes.We do have SSR and radios North of Watford you know.Probably invented them
There are quite a few Nats units were Tower and Approach are the norm.Bristol,Cardiff,Birmingham,Manchester,Belfast,Glasgow,E dinburgh,Aberdeen,and Gibraltar spring to mind.Don't know about Aberporth?
Everyone is paid much less than Heathrow,and bar one (Manch) less than Gatwick.However ATC wise it's much more interesting than the sausage machines in the South.
Gonzo,
You Southern softies should listen to a certain Billy Connolly when he says there is no such thing as bad weather,just the wrong kind of clothes.We do have SSR and radios North of Watford you know.Probably invented them
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An airport is a big airfield
An airfield is what you say is 'in sight' then you can see the runways, unless you are at an airport when you say "runway in sight"
An aerodrome is something Spitfires used to land on
An airfield is what you say is 'in sight' then you can see the runways, unless you are at an airport when you say "runway in sight"
An aerodrome is something Spitfires used to land on
Thow a dyce - you missed out Farnborough and Southampton. Aberporth airfield is FISO but NATS still supply staff to Aberporth (Cardigan Bay) Range Control via (I think) Cardiff. These controllers also do range control in the Hebrides range.
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Originally Posted by throw a dyce
Classicwings.
There are quite a few Nats units were Tower and Approach are the norm.Bristol,Cardiff,Birmingham,Manchester,Belfast,Glasgow,E dinburgh,Aberdeen,and Gibraltar spring to mind.Don't know about Aberporth?
Everyone is paid much less than Heathrow,and bar one (Manch) less than Gatwick.However ATC wise it's much more interesting than the sausage machines in the South.
Gonzo,
You Southern softies should listen to a certain Billy Connolly when he says there is no such thing as bad weather,just the wrong kind of clothes.We do have SSR and radios North of Watford you know.Probably invented them
There are quite a few Nats units were Tower and Approach are the norm.Bristol,Cardiff,Birmingham,Manchester,Belfast,Glasgow,E dinburgh,Aberdeen,and Gibraltar spring to mind.Don't know about Aberporth?
Everyone is paid much less than Heathrow,and bar one (Manch) less than Gatwick.However ATC wise it's much more interesting than the sausage machines in the South.
Gonzo,
You Southern softies should listen to a certain Billy Connolly when he says there is no such thing as bad weather,just the wrong kind of clothes.We do have SSR and radios North of Watford you know.Probably invented them