unofficial use of landing aids
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unofficial use of landing aids
I'm fairly confident that 'tis unlawful to, say, slide down an ILS when the appropriate controllers are not on watch, i.e when the airfield is closed. However, I can't find the relevant bit of the ANO which does preclude such actions. Can any of you guys point me in the right direction.
Springer
Springer
Depends where it is I suppose; if it's at an airport in class D airspace, it could well be illegal. If a guy is IMC and IFR, they could well go below safety altitude and lose terrain clearance thereby 'knowingly or recklessly endangering the safety of an aircraft'. Likewise if it's over a built up area, unless they're taking off and landing iaw normal aviation practice (which they won't be as they are not intending to land), they break the law if they go below 1000ft above the highest fixed object etc.
At my airfield, we've had complaints about aircraft landing outside the permitted hours. Well we know they aren't, and the aerodrome authority believe it may be people doing what you say, so the ILS is now switched off when the airfield closes.
At my airfield, we've had complaints about aircraft landing outside the permitted hours. Well we know they aren't, and the aerodrome authority believe it may be people doing what you say, so the ILS is now switched off when the airfield closes.
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The Relevant bits are:
Article 103
And
Rule 40
Article 103
In the case of an aerodrome (other than a Government aerodrome) in respect of which there is equipment for providing aid for holding, aid for let-down or aid for an approach to landing by radio or radar, the person in charge of the aerodrome shall:
(a) inform the CAA in advance of the periods during and times at which any such equipment is to be in operation for the purpose of providing such aid as is specified by the said person; and
(b) during any period and at such times as are notified, cause an approach control service to be provided.
(a) inform the CAA in advance of the periods during and times at which any such equipment is to be in operation for the purpose of providing such aid as is specified by the said person; and
(b) during any period and at such times as are notified, cause an approach control service to be provided.
Rule 40
(1) Subject to paragraph (2), the commander of an aircraft shall not make use of any radio navigation aid without complying with such restrictions and appropriate procedures as may be notified in relation to that aid unless authorised by an air traffic control unit.
(2) The commander of an aircraft shall not be required to comply with this rule if he is required to comply with rule 31.
(2) The commander of an aircraft shall not be required to comply with this rule if he is required to comply with rule 31.
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There's also the small issue of using a potentially unmonitored aid. ILS, to the best of my knowledge (limited to UK) is not generally monitored by ACCs and if there's no ATCO in the VCR watching the indications, I don't think I'd be too happy about using it.
The monitoring requirements are in CAP670 for the UK, and ICAO Annex 10 give the minimum international requirements - don't have time to browse them at the moment. I haven't found the ICAO annexes on the internet yet. I'm pretty sure you have to buy them.
ST
The monitoring requirements are in CAP670 for the UK, and ICAO Annex 10 give the minimum international requirements - don't have time to browse them at the moment. I haven't found the ICAO annexes on the internet yet. I'm pretty sure you have to buy them.
ST
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We do this all the time in the US... There is no need to have a tower open or even have one to use an approach such as an ILS. You can also use it without ATC approval if conditions are VMC and you will not enter IMC and just want to practice...
regards
Scott
regards
Scott
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Scott, be careful you sound like you're advocating the "it's OK because we do it in the US!" strategy. What I would ask you, and all other readers to consider is serviceability.
There is no reason why maintenance of the ILS cannot be carried out outside normal airfield opening hours, and as far as I'm aware (in the UK) no reason to notify the effect providing the equipment will be returned to use before next time the airfield is open (becasue using said kit is against regulations).
Secondly, many ILS installations require protection (i.e. ground movements adjacent to the ILS aerials are monitored & controlled when the equipment is in use)... when the airfield is closed there may be no need to control these movements, hence a serviceable ILS signal may be interfered with... and you'd be none the wiser in the cockpit :-(
Basically... a dodgy procedure I would strongly not recommend.
There is no reason why maintenance of the ILS cannot be carried out outside normal airfield opening hours, and as far as I'm aware (in the UK) no reason to notify the effect providing the equipment will be returned to use before next time the airfield is open (becasue using said kit is against regulations).
Secondly, many ILS installations require protection (i.e. ground movements adjacent to the ILS aerials are monitored & controlled when the equipment is in use)... when the airfield is closed there may be no need to control these movements, hence a serviceable ILS signal may be interfered with... and you'd be none the wiser in the cockpit :-(
Basically... a dodgy procedure I would strongly not recommend.
niknak
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I recall a very experienced flying instructor doing precisely this at a UK airfield when it was closed, his student flew the ILS perfectly and at decision height went around... only to meet someone who was doing exactly the same thing after executing an instrument approach on the recipricol runway.
I believe that both sets of pilots went away to contemplate in a dark room for a while and then considered the dry cleaning bill for their respective underwear.
I believe that both sets of pilots went away to contemplate in a dark room for a while and then considered the dry cleaning bill for their respective underwear.
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PA. In the US if you are going to take a navaid out of service for any reason then a NOTAM must be filed and pilots are required to get them prior to flight... Also if they are going to take it off the air for maint. then they must take the ident off too... Just one of those things that we are taught to check over here.
regards
Scott
regards
Scott
Always check the ID of the navaid prior to using.
No signal or test signal = don't use
"Basically... a dodgy procedure I would strongly not recommend"
Happens thousands of times a day, ranging from GA to air carrier to mil. Nothing dodgy about it.
No signal or test signal = don't use
"Basically... a dodgy procedure I would strongly not recommend"
Happens thousands of times a day, ranging from GA to air carrier to mil. Nothing dodgy about it.
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Nothing dodgy about it.
West Coast, are you writing off Niknak's account as simply improbable?
Scott you're right about idents etc will help, but it doesn't rule out interference with the beam... (Not sure are required to NOTAM removal of a piece of kit designed for solely for airfield use when that airfield is closed... but it might be?)
We'll leave you Yanks to get on with it at your peril... (hopefully you will at least consider these cautionary tales before doing it next time?)... simple fact it is against CAA Regs and must not be attempted in the UK.
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Remote indication and status display
It is an ICAO requirement for the approach controller to have the status of all approach navigation aids displayed in a relevant position.
It is usually the approach controller (procedural or radar) that gives the clearance to use the approach aid, not the tower controller, as the ratings are different.
It is also a requirement for the tower controller to have the status displayed.
Use of the navigation aid outside published hours is prohibited in England, Wales and Northern Ireland under the conditions mentioned. You require an ATC clearance to use the navigation aid, which you cannot have if the aerodrome is closed.
There are certain aerodromes in Scotland where use of navigation aids for instrument approaches is allowed, and no ATC service is provided. However, this is a very very grey area of the law, and restricted to a few aircraft operators only, mainly Loganair.
Interestingly enough, use of navigation aids to approach many offshore installations might be illegal as well! Nice to see that SRG and DAP cannot agree on this, but the "Authority speaks with one voice".
Interesting interpretations would occur when using en-route navigation aids, based at an aerodrome that is either closed, or does not have an ATC service. Not that I am suggesting that anyone still has the old plates for Goodwood, for example.....
There is an interesting exception to the Tower ATC function which occurs at Lasham. There is approach control, but no tower ATC, from memory at least, please correct if wrong! They give you an SRA to 2 nm and then it is up to you.
The controllers have "remote indication" in their respective dark holes or greenhouses. The equipment has monitoring provided with it. Most modern navigation aids will shut down automatically if the system is close to the tolerance boundaries. What you will not notice is some distortion of ILS signals if only a near field monitor is in use and then someone parks a 747 in front of the remaining GP signal. That will make you fly at about one degree, not three. Many navigation aids have two channels, so that if the A system fails, the B takes over. In the event of a major problem, or single source failure point, then the whole lot should stop transmitting.
Remember, that you need the identity, not TST for those who cannot interpret morse!
Remember about ASSOCIATION of identity signals as well. The group of four identity tones for a VOR/DME. Now, which way round is it... three for the VOR and one for the DME.... well, you should know.... if only listen for one then it does not tell you all you need to know.
As for the opposite direction stuff, well fine for VOR or NDB, but the LOC signals would interfere with one another, so they are interlocked out so only one end can transmit at once.
I guess in summary, for flying in the UK, only during published hours, with ATC clearance!
It is usually the approach controller (procedural or radar) that gives the clearance to use the approach aid, not the tower controller, as the ratings are different.
It is also a requirement for the tower controller to have the status displayed.
Use of the navigation aid outside published hours is prohibited in England, Wales and Northern Ireland under the conditions mentioned. You require an ATC clearance to use the navigation aid, which you cannot have if the aerodrome is closed.
There are certain aerodromes in Scotland where use of navigation aids for instrument approaches is allowed, and no ATC service is provided. However, this is a very very grey area of the law, and restricted to a few aircraft operators only, mainly Loganair.
Interestingly enough, use of navigation aids to approach many offshore installations might be illegal as well! Nice to see that SRG and DAP cannot agree on this, but the "Authority speaks with one voice".
Interesting interpretations would occur when using en-route navigation aids, based at an aerodrome that is either closed, or does not have an ATC service. Not that I am suggesting that anyone still has the old plates for Goodwood, for example.....
There is an interesting exception to the Tower ATC function which occurs at Lasham. There is approach control, but no tower ATC, from memory at least, please correct if wrong! They give you an SRA to 2 nm and then it is up to you.
The controllers have "remote indication" in their respective dark holes or greenhouses. The equipment has monitoring provided with it. Most modern navigation aids will shut down automatically if the system is close to the tolerance boundaries. What you will not notice is some distortion of ILS signals if only a near field monitor is in use and then someone parks a 747 in front of the remaining GP signal. That will make you fly at about one degree, not three. Many navigation aids have two channels, so that if the A system fails, the B takes over. In the event of a major problem, or single source failure point, then the whole lot should stop transmitting.
Remember, that you need the identity, not TST for those who cannot interpret morse!
Remember about ASSOCIATION of identity signals as well. The group of four identity tones for a VOR/DME. Now, which way round is it... three for the VOR and one for the DME.... well, you should know.... if only listen for one then it does not tell you all you need to know.
As for the opposite direction stuff, well fine for VOR or NDB, but the LOC signals would interfere with one another, so they are interlocked out so only one end can transmit at once.
I guess in summary, for flying in the UK, only during published hours, with ATC clearance!
How can you turn it into a Yank thing? If its safe and and done in the middle of Africa would it change your tone?
What it does have is a large body of evidence indicating that it works over here. If your regs say your not allowed, then follow your regs. Understand just because the way its done elsewhere in the world differs from your system doesn't make it dangerous, just different.
What it does have is a large body of evidence indicating that it works over here. If your regs say your not allowed, then follow your regs. Understand just because the way its done elsewhere in the world differs from your system doesn't make it dangerous, just different.
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Discountinvestigator...what's your reference for saying "use outside published hours is illegal in the UK"?
I agree it's not sensible, but illegal??
Chilli points us to the salient articles of law, but to answer bogbeagle's question and play devil's advocate for the moment...
Article 103 says the provider has to a) notify times and b) provide a service therein...OK so he/she does, but unlike chevvron, leaves the power on to the facility after hours
Rule 31. 3)a)ii)bb) says the commander has to fly in accordance with the notified procedures...ident the beacon, follow the plate and tick that box
Rule 40 1) says the commander must follow the appropriate procedures...again; ident the beacon, follow the plate and tick that box
so if the operator has left the power on and we do what we're supposed to do but after hours, I'm thinking that foolish as it may be, we're getting towards what Scott & his buddies do all the time.
using the CFD VOR as an example, it's an H24 en-route aid and provides an approach to the airfield...why are the plates suddenly unsafe because it's after 19:00 ?
Tori
I agree it's not sensible, but illegal??
Chilli points us to the salient articles of law, but to answer bogbeagle's question and play devil's advocate for the moment...
Article 103 says the provider has to a) notify times and b) provide a service therein...OK so he/she does, but unlike chevvron, leaves the power on to the facility after hours
Rule 31. 3)a)ii)bb) says the commander has to fly in accordance with the notified procedures...ident the beacon, follow the plate and tick that box
Rule 40 1) says the commander must follow the appropriate procedures...again; ident the beacon, follow the plate and tick that box
so if the operator has left the power on and we do what we're supposed to do but after hours, I'm thinking that foolish as it may be, we're getting towards what Scott & his buddies do all the time.
using the CFD VOR as an example, it's an H24 en-route aid and provides an approach to the airfield...why are the plates suddenly unsafe because it's after 19:00 ?
Tori
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PA;
If they do ANYTHING to the navaid or the landing surface then they have to NOTAM it and it should get to both the controller and pilot.. Now that said, what are you going to do for a GPS approach which has nothing to do with a navaid at the airport <G>????
regards
Scott
If they do ANYTHING to the navaid or the landing surface then they have to NOTAM it and it should get to both the controller and pilot.. Now that said, what are you going to do for a GPS approach which has nothing to do with a navaid at the airport <G>????
regards
Scott
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NikNak,
If two airplanes are shooting approaches to an uncontrolled aerodrome at opposite ends and never know of each other until they meet over the field, then someone didn't make the mandatory calls on the local frequency.
As is the norm in Canada (where I am), I would suspect that an airport deserving of an ILS or at least an instrument approach, would also have a mandatory frequency for afterhour use.
Now, on a more serious note: Do you really have your underwear drycleaned?
SAO
If two airplanes are shooting approaches to an uncontrolled aerodrome at opposite ends and never know of each other until they meet over the field, then someone didn't make the mandatory calls on the local frequency.
As is the norm in Canada (where I am), I would suspect that an airport deserving of an ILS or at least an instrument approach, would also have a mandatory frequency for afterhour use.
Now, on a more serious note: Do you really have your underwear drycleaned?
SAO
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Discountinvestigator...what's your reference for saying "use outside published hours is illegal in the UK"?
Article 104 (1) A person shall not cuase or permit and air traffic service equipment to be established or used in the UK otherwise than under and in accordance with an approval granted by the CAA to the person in charge of the equipment.
Article 104 (3) (a) The person in charge of an aeronautical radio station at an aerodrome for which a licence for public use has been granted shall cause to be notified in relation to that aeronautical radio station the type and availability of operation of any service which is available for use by aircraft.
OK, so for aerodromes with licensed for public use with navigation aids located there (almost, but not exclusively all of them. Scatsta, Southend and a few others might not be public use licence but ordinary, in fact Coventry springs to mind as well, but I do not have any sort of official list and do not have time to plod through the AIP trying to work it out) then the hours of service have to be published.
The approved service will include written conditions from the CAA in relation to the provision of full ATC at the time. Therefore, in unwritten terms, or at least invisible to flight crew, you have a requirement to be open and providing ATC for instrument approach procedures to be valid.
Now, if you want to stir up a hornets nest in this area, just ask CAA SRG Flight Operations, Aerodrome and ATC as well as CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy and the corporate legal branch to agree on it. Even if questions were not asked in Westminster, sure as hell they would be asked in Edinburgh at the Scottish Parliament when all the procedures for the outer islands and offshore installations go!
Article 104 (1) A person shall not cuase or permit and air traffic service equipment to be established or used in the UK otherwise than under and in accordance with an approval granted by the CAA to the person in charge of the equipment.
Article 104 (3) (a) The person in charge of an aeronautical radio station at an aerodrome for which a licence for public use has been granted shall cause to be notified in relation to that aeronautical radio station the type and availability of operation of any service which is available for use by aircraft.
OK, so for aerodromes with licensed for public use with navigation aids located there (almost, but not exclusively all of them. Scatsta, Southend and a few others might not be public use licence but ordinary, in fact Coventry springs to mind as well, but I do not have any sort of official list and do not have time to plod through the AIP trying to work it out) then the hours of service have to be published.
The approved service will include written conditions from the CAA in relation to the provision of full ATC at the time. Therefore, in unwritten terms, or at least invisible to flight crew, you have a requirement to be open and providing ATC for instrument approach procedures to be valid.
Now, if you want to stir up a hornets nest in this area, just ask CAA SRG Flight Operations, Aerodrome and ATC as well as CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy and the corporate legal branch to agree on it. Even if questions were not asked in Westminster, sure as hell they would be asked in Edinburgh at the Scottish Parliament when all the procedures for the outer islands and offshore installations go!
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In many cases in the U.S., Instrument Approach systems are remotely monitored (via computer systems) at a regional office, which will call the affected ATC facilities should a fault be noted. While we have ILS monitors in our Tower cab, they are also remotely monitored from the same office. We have a satellite field with ILS, several NDBs, and the area VOR which are not monitored at all from my facility, but from said regional office. In absense of a phone call, or report from pilot that facility ID is missing, we run approaches to those satellite airports. In VMC wx, it is not unusual at all to see several VFR targets flying practice approaches to same without communicating with ATC. I'm sure they are, (or SHOULD) be communicating on the common traffic advisory frequency (CTAF) however.
Been that way over here for decades. I was doing same in the early '70s while working on my Instrument rating.
Been that way over here for decades. I was doing same in the early '70s while working on my Instrument rating.
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Once again we have a topic that highlights differences across the world (a bit worrying in an international game such as aviation...) It is clear that use of approach (not nav) aids outside A/.F hours is illegal under UK regs ... fact.
That the Americans (and possibly others across the world) do differently doesn't change that... nor does it change the interpretation UK experts placed on the practise that is is... shall we say "unwise". To mis-quote your comment back at you...
This is not an attempt at Yank bashing... did I strike a nerve there Westcoast? This thread is based on an an enquiry about UK practices; it is, perhasp, foolhardy to cloud the issue by talking about International practices that may not apply? However it was, I think, Douglas Bader who said, "Rules are for the obeyance of fools and guidance of wisemen". Quite typically some have highlighted "exceptions" UK where rules are being "bent" or "ignored" across the UK... if you're insistent upon following suite, and needs must... best practice may be to (as is probably the case with the airfields/operators quoted) check with the unit in question before flight, check their practices when closed and their feelings about said practices (may have to be off the record)
... and as, no doubt Scott and Westcoast would say, "Y'all be careful y'hear!" Alternatively, maybe the aids should be turned off with the airfield lights?
That the Americans (and possibly others across the world) do differently doesn't change that... nor does it change the interpretation UK experts placed on the practise that is is... shall we say "unwise". To mis-quote your comment back at you...
Understand just because the way you do it differs from our system doesn't make it safe either, just different
... and as, no doubt Scott and Westcoast would say, "Y'all be careful y'hear!" Alternatively, maybe the aids should be turned off with the airfield lights?