Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
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Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Hi
I am a low Hour PPL - trained in the USA. Having my first "check out" ride with FI at Fairoaks tomorrow (weather permitting!). FI will obviously go over the proceedure to get in and out in the ground brief, but very interested in hints and tips from you guys. I just want to make sure I 100% understand what I can do to ensure I don't cause a CTZ unauthorised incursion.
Thanks for your help - apologies if you've covered this before - couldn't find it in a search.
I am a low Hour PPL - trained in the USA. Having my first "check out" ride with FI at Fairoaks tomorrow (weather permitting!). FI will obviously go over the proceedure to get in and out in the ground brief, but very interested in hints and tips from you guys. I just want to make sure I 100% understand what I can do to ensure I don't cause a CTZ unauthorised incursion.
Thanks for your help - apologies if you've covered this before - couldn't find it in a search.
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Dead easy - stay within the Local Flying Area, which is shown on charts, not above 1500 ft, which I'm sure your instructors will have explained to you. If you become unsure of your position don't hesitate to contact Heathrow or Farnborough Radar for assistance. They'll do everything possible to help you get back on course.
Good luck with your flying...
Good luck with your flying...
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Thanks HeathrowDirector - I was hoping it would be as easy as that.
Can I assume I should squark mode C at all times to assist you guys with identification if I go a little "off course" at any time? There has been a suggestion (not by my FI, but someone I talked to) that not squarking Charlie *may* be benificial in case you accidentally "bust" the ceiling - you have a chance to lose some altititude before it is noticed by you guys? What are your thoughts on that? Personally I was taught to ALWAYS squark Charlie in the air - the mantra being see and be seen.
Can I assume I should squark mode C at all times to assist you guys with identification if I go a little "off course" at any time? There has been a suggestion (not by my FI, but someone I talked to) that not squarking Charlie *may* be benificial in case you accidentally "bust" the ceiling - you have a chance to lose some altititude before it is noticed by you guys? What are your thoughts on that? Personally I was taught to ALWAYS squark Charlie in the air - the mantra being see and be seen.
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
As HD says - it is normally fairly easy.
There are some fairly good land marks that will always keep you safe (even if outside the LFA)
DON'T GO NORTH OF THE M3!
DON'T GO EAST OF THE M25!
(obviously you should should stay in the LFA anyway which will keep you clear)
DON'T GO towards Bracknell or anywhere in the zone until good 2-way with 125.62 and have been identified as you will of course be SVFR and there are helicopters routeing to the EAST of the M25 over Brooklands and down the M3.
Chevvron needs to chip in with the Farnborough stuff, but if you are plannig to work LF LARS on 125.25 squawk 0457 which is the conspicuity code leaving Fairoaks towards Knaphill not above 1400. They will ident you with another squawk.
Good luck - not that difficult really. But just know who to call if you are unsure at any time. Doesn't take much for you to go north and stop heathrow traffic and definite paperwork!
Somewhat shocking that is being preached by instructors to turn off the Mode C "in case you screw up". Perhaps he should spend more time teaching how not to screw up. If you do go massively above the level, we may phone Fairoaks and mention it - more about education than bollocking (you may not know what you have done wrong)
There are some fairly good land marks that will always keep you safe (even if outside the LFA)
DON'T GO NORTH OF THE M3!
DON'T GO EAST OF THE M25!
(obviously you should should stay in the LFA anyway which will keep you clear)
DON'T GO towards Bracknell or anywhere in the zone until good 2-way with 125.62 and have been identified as you will of course be SVFR and there are helicopters routeing to the EAST of the M25 over Brooklands and down the M3.
Chevvron needs to chip in with the Farnborough stuff, but if you are plannig to work LF LARS on 125.25 squawk 0457 which is the conspicuity code leaving Fairoaks towards Knaphill not above 1400. They will ident you with another squawk.
Good luck - not that difficult really. But just know who to call if you are unsure at any time. Doesn't take much for you to go north and stop heathrow traffic and definite paperwork!
Somewhat shocking that is being preached by instructors to turn off the Mode C "in case you screw up". Perhaps he should spend more time teaching how not to screw up. If you do go massively above the level, we may phone Fairoaks and mention it - more about education than bollocking (you may not know what you have done wrong)
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
AlanM
MAny thanks for your help - any information before I have my first check out ride / ground school tomorrow is gratefully recieved.
I reiterate - the comment about not squarking Charlie was NOT from an instructor, but from an "old tooth" flying club member.
I am going there tomorrow to learn/be taught how to do it properly, make sure I understand the airspace in all of the surrounding areas - and to make dammed sure I have all of the RT frequencies right in front of me on my knee board.
I will ensure that I have a print out of all comments and will go through them thoroughly with my instructor. Will probably have some more questions on Saturday afternoon after the lesson so watch this space!
MAny thanks for your help - any information before I have my first check out ride / ground school tomorrow is gratefully recieved.
I reiterate - the comment about not squarking Charlie was NOT from an instructor, but from an "old tooth" flying club member.
I am going there tomorrow to learn/be taught how to do it properly, make sure I understand the airspace in all of the surrounding areas - and to make dammed sure I have all of the RT frequencies right in front of me on my knee board.
I will ensure that I have a print out of all comments and will go through them thoroughly with my instructor. Will probably have some more questions on Saturday afternoon after the lesson so watch this space!
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Sorry to mis-ident the instructor for someone with no airmanship.
Don't believe all you hear from a so called "old tooth" The fact that they are telling trainees/new people to the field this stuff is nonetheless still wrrying to say the least.
Don't believe all you hear from a so called "old tooth" The fact that they are telling trainees/new people to the field this stuff is nonetheless still wrrying to say the least.
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
AlanM - agree completely. Being conspicuous, having good airmanship and making the time for good ground preperation were drilled into me by the FI that took me from Zero to JAA PPL Pass in the USA. Rest assured I will be using all of the good training I have recieved back in the UK. Once again thanks for making the time to answer what, to you, must be very routine questions!
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
There are handouts available at Fairoaks showing the standard methods of departing and joining the circuit, including the odd occasions when Farnborough has temporary controlled airspace.
I will leave a copy of these handouts with the receptionist.
I will leave a copy of these handouts with the receptionist.
Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
All I can say is be aware that Farnborough instrument traffic for the westerly runway will pass just south west of Fairoaks ie over the 'standard' Fairoaks VFR departure at 1900ft alt, hence the 1400ft lid on departures under a Letter of Agreement.
Use mode 'C' if the aircraft has it.
When local area flying, there are lots of helpful landmarks eg Bagshot mast, A3 road from Wisley/Ockham to Guildford; Guildford has a cathedral on a hilltop but Woking only has tall buildings (which stand out from a long distance away) Going east, Epsom racecourse is unmissable!(on a hilltop once again)
Use mode 'C' if the aircraft has it.
When local area flying, there are lots of helpful landmarks eg Bagshot mast, A3 road from Wisley/Ockham to Guildford; Guildford has a cathedral on a hilltop but Woking only has tall buildings (which stand out from a long distance away) Going east, Epsom racecourse is unmissable!(on a hilltop once again)
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Thanks to all for your help. Looks like the great British weather has put a stop to my VFR flying today!
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Don't forget that within the Class A Local Flying Area you need a SVFR minimum 3km flight visibility, 10km without IMC rating. Nor are there any IFR procedures, something some pilots seem to forget when making multiple, fudged GPS approaches trying to get in(to a coffin).
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Never mind CD - soon be summer! 
Very true TDM - saw a light twin descend through cloud and OVC007 at Farnborough/Heathrow the other day when approaching OCK from the East - and creep into Fairoaks............ never showing above 600 ft on the validated Mode C (He chose to QSY)
The most amazing thing was seeing another one do the same scud running from the west, also routeing in via OCK.
Still the fact they probaly never saw each other AND both landed safely = "Safe procedure".
Maybe the salt you spoke of CD??!??
Very true TDM - saw a light twin descend through cloud and OVC007 at Farnborough/Heathrow the other day when approaching OCK from the East - and creep into Fairoaks............ never showing above 600 ft on the validated Mode C (He chose to QSY)
The most amazing thing was seeing another one do the same scud running from the west, also routeing in via OCK.
Still the fact they probaly never saw each other AND both landed safely = "Safe procedure".
Maybe the salt you spoke of CD??!??
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Talkdownman, There is a notification in the AIP with respect to Schedule 8 of the ANO which permits even a basic PPL holder to fly within the Fairoaks LFA and ATZ in a visibility of 3km.
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
Thanks AW, I had my doubts about the 10Km in the LFA after I pressed send. That still doesn't excuse those who chance it it less than 3km. We have both seen them do it.
Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
It doesn't actually say from who's viewpoint the 3km is taken.
Is it 3km at Fairoaks, 3km at Heathrow or 3km as determined by the pilot?
Is it 3km at Fairoaks, 3km at Heathrow or 3km as determined by the pilot?
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Re: Flying from Fairoaks - inside Heathrow CTZ
TC, It does say - flight visibility. ENR 1-4-2. (I had to look it up, thanks to AW. He didn't have to!)
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/20104.PDF
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/20104.PDF