Clearances
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leicester
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clearances
Hi all
When giving a heading or reading it back, do we say degrees after it? Does this apply to headings ending just in a zero?
Also re flight levels do we say flight level one hundred, two hundred etc? Or is it flight level two zero zero.
Can we say heading three hundred degrees or is it three zero zero?
And is it speed three hundred knots or three zero zero knots?
I have done a search for these but all the threads are somewhat old. I would also like to know where this is written down. Anyone know if the cap413 is updated to reflect this.
Chears.
When giving a heading or reading it back, do we say degrees after it? Does this apply to headings ending just in a zero?
Also re flight levels do we say flight level one hundred, two hundred etc? Or is it flight level two zero zero.
Can we say heading three hundred degrees or is it three zero zero?
And is it speed three hundred knots or three zero zero knots?
I have done a search for these but all the threads are somewhat old. I would also like to know where this is written down. Anyone know if the cap413 is updated to reflect this.
Chears.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pink Skies
Regarding the degrees and the FL - where I am we just say turn left/right heading three-zero-zero etc. and the pilot reads back the exact same thing. As for FLs we had a change just recently ( a few years back) from FL one-zero-zero to FL one hundred/two hundred etc etc. As for knots I have no idea - we generally don't have a need to control using speed.
Hope this is of use
B-Chops
Regarding the degrees and the FL - where I am we just say turn left/right heading three-zero-zero etc. and the pilot reads back the exact same thing. As for FLs we had a change just recently ( a few years back) from FL one-zero-zero to FL one hundred/two hundred etc etc. As for knots I have no idea - we generally don't have a need to control using speed.
Hope this is of use
B-Chops
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WE use the word degrees after a 0 ie turn left/right heading 300 degrees. You can omit it if you use a 5. I must admit to using it with every heading change simply out of habit but it is for the ones ending with a zero to try to ensure no confusion with Flight Levels.
Some examples of recommended phraseology for UK ATCOs:-
"Climb FL One Hundred"
"Turn right heading one zero zero degrees"
"Speed two one zero knots"
It also helps ATCOs monitor the pilot readback if they use the same format, and most pilots do.
Using 'hundreds' for headings rather defeats the objective of the first two examples in avoiding possible confusion between a heading and level instruction!
"Climb FL One Hundred"
"Turn right heading one zero zero degrees"
"Speed two one zero knots"
It also helps ATCOs monitor the pilot readback if they use the same format, and most pilots do.
Using 'hundreds' for headings rather defeats the objective of the first two examples in avoiding possible confusion between a heading and level instruction!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sesame Street
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Both Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1 and CAP 413 contain the same paragraph:
"For all transmissions, with the exception of those used for surveillance or precision radar approaches, the word 'degrees' shall be appended to heading figures where the heading ends in zero, or in cases where confusion or ambiguity may result."
('shall' = 'must')
spekesoftly sums up the reasoning behind using 'hundreds' for levels only.
Pink skies if you want to know where the bit about headings is written down have a look at:
CAP493 MATS Pt 1, Appendix E, Para 4.1.3; and
CAP413 Radiotelephony Manual, Chapter 3, Para 1.1.3
- both available from CAA website - ATS Publications
... off to hang up my anorak
"For all transmissions, with the exception of those used for surveillance or precision radar approaches, the word 'degrees' shall be appended to heading figures where the heading ends in zero, or in cases where confusion or ambiguity may result."
('shall' = 'must')
spekesoftly sums up the reasoning behind using 'hundreds' for levels only.
Pink skies if you want to know where the bit about headings is written down have a look at:
CAP493 MATS Pt 1, Appendix E, Para 4.1.3; and
CAP413 Radiotelephony Manual, Chapter 3, Para 1.1.3
- both available from CAA website - ATS Publications
... off to hang up my anorak
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3-0-0 knots, not three hundred
heading 3-0-0 DEGREES, not three hundred
heading 3-0-5, no need for degrees.
The only time we can use hundred is for FLs of whole hundreds (100, 200 etc), and of course for altitudes (hundreds and thousands of feet).
..And all those examples Spitoon has listed below as well (though us pilots would rarely use them). Cheers mate.
CAP 413 is updated to reflect these changes.
heading 3-0-0 DEGREES, not three hundred
heading 3-0-5, no need for degrees.
The only time we can use hundred is for FLs of whole hundreds (100, 200 etc), and of course for altitudes (hundreds and thousands of feet).
..And all those examples Spitoon has listed below as well (though us pilots would rarely use them). Cheers mate.
CAP 413 is updated to reflect these changes.
Last edited by Gary Lager; 29th Nov 2005 at 19:09.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Except that CAP 413 Chapter 2 1.4.2 b) says
so an RVR of 1200m is transmitted as "one thousand two hundred metres".
All numbers used in the transmission of altitude, height, cloud height, visibility and runway visual range information which contain whole hundreds and whole thousands shall be transmitted by pronouncing each digit in the number of hundreds or thousands followed by the word HUNDRED or TOUSAND as appropriate. Combinations of thousands and whole hundreds shall be transmitted by pronouncing each digit in the number of thousands followed by the word THOUSAND and the number of hundreds followed by the word HUNDRED;
