MAN's MIRSI hold today
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MAN's MIRSI hold today
I was helping my dad out today on a dormer in West Leigh, and witnessed some amazing seens over Wigan which is where the MIRSI stack is located(for thise who dont know). This is the first time ive witnessed holding being performed, as i live in Atherton, we only get vectored a/c over us not the actual hold itself, so it was quite a change seeing the aircraft circling. Ive been meaning to go to the site where the MIRSI beacon is located but i just not had time.(ill get to the question yet)......
As i was watching the aircraft going round the track it became evident that no aircraft ever gets the track exactly right, i watched a 757 and a dash 8, one at about 6,000ft and one at about 10,000 both directly above/below one another, but they both turned at different stages, it was quite spectacular to watch, if this wasnt good enough another dash came along, but it entered at about 15-20,000ft, it took around 10-15min to get to the usual 6,000ft, which was equally great to watch.
Once at 6,000ft the aircraft would be vectored at 090 off from MIRSI(over me) to 6L/R, on average it took an a/c 2 circuits at 6,000ft to be allowed to vector.
I wanted to ask as anybody seen such variation like this, like described above?
i know it was a busy day due to the diversion, hope it continues
cheers
Scott Waterworth
As i was watching the aircraft going round the track it became evident that no aircraft ever gets the track exactly right, i watched a 757 and a dash 8, one at about 6,000ft and one at about 10,000 both directly above/below one another, but they both turned at different stages, it was quite spectacular to watch, if this wasnt good enough another dash came along, but it entered at about 15-20,000ft, it took around 10-15min to get to the usual 6,000ft, which was equally great to watch.
Once at 6,000ft the aircraft would be vectored at 090 off from MIRSI(over me) to 6L/R, on average it took an a/c 2 circuits at 6,000ft to be allowed to vector.
I wanted to ask as anybody seen such variation like this, like described above?
i know it was a busy day due to the diversion, hope it continues
cheers
Scott Waterworth
Last edited by BMI701EGCC; 28th Nov 2005 at 18:54.
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Glad you enjoyed the free airshow over MIRSI (it's spelt that way - with an I - not that it matters greatly )
I think holding aircraft do deviate slightly all the time, probably due to such factors as their speed, the met conditions, on board aicraft systems - all that sort of stuff.
Today there was an Aer Arann aircraft that was irregularly holding over MIRSI too, as the crew made their mind up whether to divert to Liverpool or not. You may have witnessed that in it's elongated pattern.
)I think holding aircraft do deviate slightly all the time, probably due to such factors as their speed, the met conditions, on board aicraft systems - all that sort of stuff.
Today there was an Aer Arann aircraft that was irregularly holding over MIRSI too, as the crew made their mind up whether to divert to Liverpool or not. You may have witnessed that in it's elongated pattern.
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Had a memory block then, of course its spelt with an 'I'.lol
I only witnessed the 'airshow' at about 16.30ish dont know if that was the Aer Arann?
What did it do got to MAN or LPL?
Does the MIRSI always get this clogged up?
Cheers mate
Scott Waterworth
I only witnessed the 'airshow' at about 16.30ish dont know if that was the Aer Arann?
What did it do got to MAN or LPL?
Does the MIRSI always get this clogged up?
Cheers mate
Scott Waterworth
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Hi Guys,
In response to the first post..
>Ive been meaning to go to the site where the MIRSI beacon is located but i just not had time
You'll never find it, it's not a beacon!
In simplistic terms - it's a point in space created for the fmc's to navigate to, and to hold around. Normally 5 mile tracks, inbound course 064 degrees, right hand turns (as I recall from the last time I had to hold there!!). The basic situation is this, London send us (say over Birmingham) to Manchester, who will clear us to MIRSI and before we get sent to there we swap to Radar, if we get no clearance to proceed, we go into the hold at MIRSI - it's automatic, no clearance - into the hold you go. After MIRSI it's onto Director and then to tower as we intercept the localiser and start the descent on the ILS. Busy(!)
>As i was watching the aircraft going round the track it became evident that no aircraft ever gets the track exactly right,
Correct, some fmc's have the inbound course 065 degrees, but the book (egcc arrival plates) specify 064 degrees. Also, as it's an fmc route, the accuracy is all down to the IRS's (for the airline I fly for, 0.24 mile accuracy). Other airlines have GPS updating of the fmc's and it's down to 0.1 mile accuracy.
> if this wasnt good enough another dash came along, but it entered at about 15-20,000ft, it took around 10-15min to get to the usual 6,000ft, which was equally great to watch.
You should try being in the hold - great fun looking down and seeing other aircraft turning. Also bear in mind all this is visible on the TCAS system, white diamonds with their relative height readings everywhere!
8028410q
In response to the first post..
>Ive been meaning to go to the site where the MIRSI beacon is located but i just not had time
You'll never find it, it's not a beacon!
In simplistic terms - it's a point in space created for the fmc's to navigate to, and to hold around. Normally 5 mile tracks, inbound course 064 degrees, right hand turns (as I recall from the last time I had to hold there!!). The basic situation is this, London send us (say over Birmingham) to Manchester, who will clear us to MIRSI and before we get sent to there we swap to Radar, if we get no clearance to proceed, we go into the hold at MIRSI - it's automatic, no clearance - into the hold you go. After MIRSI it's onto Director and then to tower as we intercept the localiser and start the descent on the ILS. Busy(!)>As i was watching the aircraft going round the track it became evident that no aircraft ever gets the track exactly right,
Correct, some fmc's have the inbound course 065 degrees, but the book (egcc arrival plates) specify 064 degrees. Also, as it's an fmc route, the accuracy is all down to the IRS's (for the airline I fly for, 0.24 mile accuracy). Other airlines have GPS updating of the fmc's and it's down to 0.1 mile accuracy.
> if this wasnt good enough another dash came along, but it entered at about 15-20,000ft, it took around 10-15min to get to the usual 6,000ft, which was equally great to watch.
You should try being in the hold - great fun looking down and seeing other aircraft turning. Also bear in mind all this is visible on the TCAS system, white diamonds with their relative height readings everywhere!
8028410q
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8028410q - I hope when you're approaching Manchester from the Birmingham direction, after being handed off by London, you don't go into the MIRSI hold. Or anywhere near it for that matter.
DAYNE would be your hold of choice then my friend
DAYNE would be your hold of choice then my friend
I've done that many MAN-BFS/ORK flights recently I don't know where I am! 
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What about us little fellows holding over Hilltop?
20 minutes round and round at 1,000' is not unusual waiting for our commercial bretherin to come in and then we have the quick dash across to the runway before the next big fellow arrives.
20 minutes round and round at 1,000' is not unusual waiting for our commercial bretherin to come in and then we have the quick dash across to the runway before the next big fellow arrives.
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G.I.B.
I'm doing my IMC with the Manchester School of Flying and my lovely wife is doing her PPL there.
Restrictions about the time of day is very much related to the costs involved. Manchester has an unusual (?) system of departure fees and not landing fees.
For light airctaft there is a 'procedure' which involves entering the zone on certain routes then getting to the runway by a different aproach to the airliners which usually involves a diagonal 'base/final' and a nice drop onto the active runway. It seems to fit in very well with commercial traffic but can force a holding at 1'000 for quite a while if you are unlucky.
If you are a GA flyer and you want to try Manchester it is possible to do it 'on the cheap' by using Manchester School of Flying as your handling agent. At the right time of the day you can get in and out for about £40.00.
I must admit that I havn't yet gone in there with my own aircraft yet.
I'm doing my IMC with the Manchester School of Flying and my lovely wife is doing her PPL there.
Restrictions about the time of day is very much related to the costs involved. Manchester has an unusual (?) system of departure fees and not landing fees.
For light airctaft there is a 'procedure' which involves entering the zone on certain routes then getting to the runway by a different aproach to the airliners which usually involves a diagonal 'base/final' and a nice drop onto the active runway. It seems to fit in very well with commercial traffic but can force a holding at 1'000 for quite a while if you are unlucky.
If you are a GA flyer and you want to try Manchester it is possible to do it 'on the cheap' by using Manchester School of Flying as your handling agent. At the right time of the day you can get in and out for about £40.00.
I must admit that I havn't yet gone in there with my own aircraft yet.
