"Bye", "Cheers", "Have a good weekend"
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"Bye", "Cheers", "Have a good weekend"
Almost every R/T call before changing frequency seems to have a pleasantry attached these days? All very nice but is it necessary? Is it pleasant? Maybe I have a brain of limited capacity but I prefer not to lose track of relevant information in the midst of all the "cheerios". I find it irritating.
If I was a Chief Pilot, I'd introduce a "No Gratuitous Pleasantries" SOP.
If I was a Chief Pilot, I'd introduce a "No Gratuitous Pleasantries" SOP.
Good point, but as long as pilots leave such pleasantries to the right circumstance I don't have a problem with it. ie, a busy frequency keep it standard but if its dead quiet wheres the harm?
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Hmmm...
Whilst not strictly standard r/t, I have a unwritten system.
if I have co-ordinated your frequency transfer, I will say;
"contact xyz, 123.45. ba-bye"
if I havent, and you're freecalling the next unit I will say;
"freecall abc, 123.45. ba-bye"
If I am sitting next to the person and I slide the flight progress strip to them, I will say;
"contact tower, 123.45."
Im my opinion, (no offence to GA/Pro pilots) it helps distinguish the difference between a end to the unit's service and just the transfer to a different part of the unit. (*does that make sense?)
On the other side of the coin;
Manners cost nothing when it is quiet, but when its busy manners cost seconds. When I stop being polite, pilots hear the change of tone in my voice an expedite the read-back. I feel it may even give pilots a clue about a controllers workload at any particualr time. Remember, just because you cant hear any r/t chatter doesnt mean we're not rushed off our feet.
Bri.
Whilst not strictly standard r/t, I have a unwritten system.
if I have co-ordinated your frequency transfer, I will say;
"contact xyz, 123.45. ba-bye"
if I havent, and you're freecalling the next unit I will say;
"freecall abc, 123.45. ba-bye"
If I am sitting next to the person and I slide the flight progress strip to them, I will say;
"contact tower, 123.45."
Im my opinion, (no offence to GA/Pro pilots) it helps distinguish the difference between a end to the unit's service and just the transfer to a different part of the unit. (*does that make sense?)
On the other side of the coin;
Manners cost nothing when it is quiet, but when its busy manners cost seconds. When I stop being polite, pilots hear the change of tone in my voice an expedite the read-back. I feel it may even give pilots a clue about a controllers workload at any particualr time. Remember, just because you cant hear any r/t chatter doesnt mean we're not rushed off our feet.
Bri.
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Maybe I have a brain of limited capacity but I prefer not to lose track of relevant information in the midst of all the "cheerios". I find it irritating.
Also, it makes ATC so much safer if we can actually keep that spare capacity in our brains for when we might really need it !!
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Please tell me this is not a serious thread.
Although I am a supporter of using standard phraseology, the occasional 'good day' or 'bye' does no one any harm and is a lot less unprofessional than other things I have heard and seen in ATC over the years.
A few common courtesies does nobody any harm as long as it is not abused.
Goodnight !
Although I am a supporter of using standard phraseology, the occasional 'good day' or 'bye' does no one any harm and is a lot less unprofessional than other things I have heard and seen in ATC over the years.
A few common courtesies does nobody any harm as long as it is not abused.
Goodnight !
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I'll also remember next time to not say thankyou if I ask for something special and you give me your best as thats not standard phraseology either.
Happy Christmas anyone?????
Happy Christmas anyone?????
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I agree with 360. If it's the middle of the night five minutes pass between calls, what harm does a "thank you" do?? Of course I would never think of exchanging "g'day"s and "how are the kids"s when the controller's swamped and scrambling to accommodate the incomings, the vector requests, etc, etc.
It simply has to do with plain ol' good judgment.
It simply has to do with plain ol' good judgment.
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I could no more leave a shop or restaurant or get out of a taxi without saying "thank you" than I could when leaving an air traffic service.
They are all "just doing their jobs" but that doesn't mean that we have to be rude or ungracious.
Obviously if things are very busy you become more taciturn - not to do so would also be rude - but nine times out of ten a "good morning" at the start and a "thank you" at the end takes up no significant time.
The relative difference between:
"Descend with the ILS and contact Biggin Approach on 129.4"
and
"Descend with the ILS and contact Biggin Approach on 129.4, thank you"
is miniscule.
They are all "just doing their jobs" but that doesn't mean that we have to be rude or ungracious.
Obviously if things are very busy you become more taciturn - not to do so would also be rude - but nine times out of ten a "good morning" at the start and a "thank you" at the end takes up no significant time.
The relative difference between:
"Descend with the ILS and contact Biggin Approach on 129.4"
and
"Descend with the ILS and contact Biggin Approach on 129.4, thank you"
is miniscule.
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Ah wait until 30/31st of December and I can say to all our westbound American cousins crossing 10W " lang may yer lum reek"
The best Christmas nicety I have heard was from a Delta pilot some years ago " have a cool yule "
AyrTC
The best Christmas nicety I have heard was from a Delta pilot some years ago " have a cool yule "
AyrTC
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Hello
What an interesting thread!!
Couldn't agree more with Apache43, if you have trouble remembering what was said because someone says b-bye to you perhaps its time to hang up those boots for the last time.
Also agree with timothy, I wouldn't dream of not saying hello and b-bye to a work colleague/lift attendant/supermarket cashier/telephone call so why should it be different on the r/t. There is too much hostility between strangers these days as it is, I wouldn't like the same thing to start happening at work too. Where have the days gone where you would walk down the street and say good morning to everyone whose path you crossed.
From a mil ATCO's point of view, a lot of our time is spent providing services to VFR civilian a/c and I will quite regularly have to limit them to quite restrictive flying in order to keep them and their fast and pointy cousins safe. Out in Class G (don't we all love it!!) they are perfectly entitled to tell me where to shove my restrictions, however I am a great believer that they would be willing to oblige a controller who provides a pleasant and courteous service, so a pleasantry here and there goes a long way. I certainly would be more willing to do things for someone who was pleasant to me than someone who just barked orders as per the 318A (Oops i mean 552) / MATS.
There is however one thing I hate:
Controller: G-BX freecall XXX Zone frequency 119.45, b-bye
A/c 1: Freecall XXX on 119.45, thanks for the service, G-BX, bye Nigel
A/c2: Bye Philip, see you on the ground, mines a tea white one.
WTF?? Whos freq is this? That really annoys me esp when I am busy. It is usually followed by:
Controller: All stations, XXX Zone, minimise to essential transmissions!
A/c 2: Sorry sir!
B-Bye
What an interesting thread!!
Couldn't agree more with Apache43, if you have trouble remembering what was said because someone says b-bye to you perhaps its time to hang up those boots for the last time.
Also agree with timothy, I wouldn't dream of not saying hello and b-bye to a work colleague/lift attendant/supermarket cashier/telephone call so why should it be different on the r/t. There is too much hostility between strangers these days as it is, I wouldn't like the same thing to start happening at work too. Where have the days gone where you would walk down the street and say good morning to everyone whose path you crossed.
From a mil ATCO's point of view, a lot of our time is spent providing services to VFR civilian a/c and I will quite regularly have to limit them to quite restrictive flying in order to keep them and their fast and pointy cousins safe. Out in Class G (don't we all love it!!) they are perfectly entitled to tell me where to shove my restrictions, however I am a great believer that they would be willing to oblige a controller who provides a pleasant and courteous service, so a pleasantry here and there goes a long way. I certainly would be more willing to do things for someone who was pleasant to me than someone who just barked orders as per the 318A (Oops i mean 552) / MATS.
There is however one thing I hate:
Controller: G-BX freecall XXX Zone frequency 119.45, b-bye
A/c 1: Freecall XXX on 119.45, thanks for the service, G-BX, bye Nigel
A/c2: Bye Philip, see you on the ground, mines a tea white one.
WTF?? Whos freq is this? That really annoys me esp when I am busy. It is usually followed by:
Controller: All stations, XXX Zone, minimise to essential transmissions!
A/c 2: Sorry sir!
B-Bye
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Thing that I find peculiar is, when a pilot has said something like 'leaving your zone and transferring to wherever on whatever frequency', why does the ATCO find it necessary to say 'freecall wherever on whatever frequency' when the pilot's just said that's what he's going to do?
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All these small greetings are obviously not standard – but hey ,I like them – and I will keep saying them. well - When things are not too busy .
And my all time favourite is for dec 24th in the US:
Have a happy holyday of your choosing
pete
And my all time favourite is for dec 24th in the US:
Have a happy holyday of your choosing
pete
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Frostbite, if I remember correctly it's to give an indication to the pilot the next unit/frequency you are changing to doesn't have your details or hasn't been afforded co-ordination, so expect to be asked.
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I find it unbelievable that someone has had to make an issue of this? If it's busy then the hello etc is omitted, if it's quiet, what's the harm? I bet you're the same person that doesn't give way at a junction because it's "your right of way"? or the one that doesn't say thank you when someone gives way to you?? I mean that's not standard procedure either is it?
We are all normally functioning adult humans (aren't we ?) so politeness is an inbuilt reaction. I see nothing wrong with an occasional "Thanks" or "Bye" or "Servus" when it's quiet but wishing a controller "have a nice weekend" when he/she has just started a long slog, locked in an underground bunker staring at hundereds of blips, is just rubbing it in 
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Dear Frostbite
I believe it is also due to the fact that the a/c has used the wrong frequency.
Numerous times we have all heard of people on the wrong freq. To some the radio is a daunting piece of kit that takes experience and confidence to make your r/t perfect. In the open FIR the use of the radio can be abortionate. However I believe that a pleasantry con certainly help those not used to the radio become more proficient.
Except..."Over and Out" I detest the morons who use that.
I believe it is also due to the fact that the a/c has used the wrong frequency.
Numerous times we have all heard of people on the wrong freq. To some the radio is a daunting piece of kit that takes experience and confidence to make your r/t perfect. In the open FIR the use of the radio can be abortionate. However I believe that a pleasantry con certainly help those not used to the radio become more proficient.
Except..."Over and Out" I detest the morons who use that.
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I'm all for pleasantries, it makes it all a bit more civilised. If you don't get a 'buh-bye' or 'thanks for your help' or 'g'day' from me on a non-busy frequency, then it's a fair indication that you've done something that's pissed me off. Either that, or my credit card statement arrived that morning
A word of caution though, "123.4 buh-bye" sounds an awful lot like "123.45" if it's all run together.
A word of caution though, "123.4 buh-bye" sounds an awful lot like "123.45" if it's all run together.
aceatco, retired
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The ones that annoy me are the 'Have a good evening' at around 1900 when you are working til 2200, or the 'Have a great weekend' late on a Saturday. How can I, I'm at work!! 
Seriously though, don't mind a bit of thank you and goodbye.
Seriously though, don't mind a bit of thank you and goodbye.
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Come on chaps. Nobody is suggesting you should waste valuable RT time when busy, but pleasantries outside those times is no big deal. Go to South Africa and listen to how they manage to be polite, but still get the job done sharpish.
Next thing, nobody working ATC on Christmas Day (what a bum deal) will get a "Happy Christmas" and it's not like they are busy or anything for most of their shift on that day.
OK, so Happy New Year can start to wear a bit thin and too many Happy Christmases from the long-hauls headed east around 22.00Z on 24th Dec could be inappropriate.
By the way, "Don't tell me what kind of a day to have" was a very good US tee-shirt - should have sold thousands.....
Next thing, nobody working ATC on Christmas Day (what a bum deal) will get a "Happy Christmas" and it's not like they are busy or anything for most of their shift on that day.
OK, so Happy New Year can start to wear a bit thin and too many Happy Christmases from the long-hauls headed east around 22.00Z on 24th Dec could be inappropriate.
By the way, "Don't tell me what kind of a day to have" was a very good US tee-shirt - should have sold thousands.....