Level Bust DVD inside CHIRP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Bournemouth, UK
MY copy of CHIRP and the Runway Incursions flyer both had a nasty brown lumpy stain on them. Like someone had dropped half their tea down it before posting it to me....... very weird!!!
DVD was alright though.
DVD was alright though.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
From: Wilmslow and North Yorks
Yeah I agree, nice production but lacking the substance of the original one. Thought the three examples of Level Bust incidents on the first DVD had much more impact.
And yeah, I did have a laugh at the 70's Porn Star Ray Bans!
And yeah, I did have a laugh at the 70's Porn Star Ray Bans!
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 10
From: Samsonite Avenue
Just watched this again recently and I spotted a couple of R/T blunders - deliberate?
On the first scenario near Bovingdon on LL INTN when the STCA looked like it triggered off one pilot asked if the controller wanted him to climb back to FL110 which was the level that he busted. The response was 'just stay on the heading for the time being' - didn't really answer the guys question!
With the incident near Detling the aircrafts callsign was 'Victor Juliet Victor' but the controller kept on using 'Victor Yankee Victor'.
The final gotcha was when the RA happened near DET on the BIG sector and the controller gave a descent instruction to the KK inbound before the 'clear of conflict' has been passed to the controller. I thought the controller was only allowed to pass traffic information whilst an aircraft was responding to a RA?
I think I obviously need to get out more!
On the first scenario near Bovingdon on LL INTN when the STCA looked like it triggered off one pilot asked if the controller wanted him to climb back to FL110 which was the level that he busted. The response was 'just stay on the heading for the time being' - didn't really answer the guys question!
With the incident near Detling the aircrafts callsign was 'Victor Juliet Victor' but the controller kept on using 'Victor Yankee Victor'.
The final gotcha was when the RA happened near DET on the BIG sector and the controller gave a descent instruction to the KK inbound before the 'clear of conflict' has been passed to the controller. I thought the controller was only allowed to pass traffic information whilst an aircraft was responding to a RA?
I think I obviously need to get out more!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
From: uk
I believe the RT used was as transcribed from the original incidents.
Controllers ARE supposed to wait until clear of conflict before issuing level change instructions - however you study the RT from MANY incidents in the UK FIR and see if that's always the case! When things start to go wrong, and an ATCO gets a TCAS RA on frequency (and/or level bust) the workload can get high very quickly - the temptation to try and 'rescue' the situation persists for what seems like quite a while...until the training/experience kicks in and the ATCO can force themselves to sit and watch what transpires.
Hence the AIC (Pink 194) and recurrent training in the sim for all aircrew to remind us to follow TCAS, even in the event of conflicting instructions from ATC.
So the 'mistakes' were deliberate on the CD, but not in real life - a useful illustration for aircrew of the 'human element' behind ATC.
Controllers ARE supposed to wait until clear of conflict before issuing level change instructions - however you study the RT from MANY incidents in the UK FIR and see if that's always the case! When things start to go wrong, and an ATCO gets a TCAS RA on frequency (and/or level bust) the workload can get high very quickly - the temptation to try and 'rescue' the situation persists for what seems like quite a while...until the training/experience kicks in and the ATCO can force themselves to sit and watch what transpires.
Hence the AIC (Pink 194) and recurrent training in the sim for all aircrew to remind us to follow TCAS, even in the event of conflicting instructions from ATC.
So the 'mistakes' were deliberate on the CD, but not in real life - a useful illustration for aircrew of the 'human element' behind ATC.
Guest
Posts: n/a
the nasty postman stole my apparantly 'so valuble to him' DVD, whilst keeping a stiff upper lip and posting my shredded copy of chirp through the letter box.
although i must in turn thank flybhoy for allowing me to view his beloved copy.
and someone correct me if im wrong... i was a little worse for wear that morning, but tha ATCO doing South East (120.52) isnt actually valid on that sector.
ho-hum
although i must in turn thank flybhoy for allowing me to view his beloved copy.
and someone correct me if im wrong... i was a little worse for wear that morning, but tha ATCO doing South East (120.52) isnt actually valid on that sector.
ho-hum
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
From: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
err thanks for the explanation - but it was a rhetorical question as most of us at TC won't be doing TRUCE in lieu of TRM.
Happy days
(interesting as the last two incidents I have seen have had a recommendation of learning points to be played out in TRUCE)
Happy days
(interesting as the last two incidents I have seen have had a recommendation of learning points to be played out in TRUCE)
Naughty but Nice
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: Southern England
Wizad,
you're absolutely right - and just for good measure the 'Heathrow' controller doesn't do Heathrow either!
Cheers,
N
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
you're absolutely right - and just for good measure the 'Heathrow' controller doesn't do Heathrow either!
Cheers,
N
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
