Whats going on at CATC
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to add to the other comments being made here. Being at CATC it seems to me that all improvements etc to training is geared toward 2008, and no one really gives a toss about the current state of affairs. Except obviously the trainees and instructors.
The morale among students just now is almost non existent, and everyone just wants to get through the courses and get out of the college asap.
The morale among students just now is almost non existent, and everyone just wants to get through the courses and get out of the college asap.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to say that the products from initial ATC training are as much of a problem in the Military as for you NATS fellas. It should be the case that basic ATC skills are fully embedded prior to arrival at the ATC Unit - however it is too often the case that basic things are having to be re-taught by the Unit Instructors (OJTIs in your jargon). In the Military as with NATS the financial imperative seems to be the abiding driving force - tail wagging the dog?? As mentioned before - throwing training hours at a trainee in the hope that some of it will stick is onerous and stressful for the trainee and the instructor!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i heard the other day that only 5 out of 30 passed the last approach radar course
if this is indeed true - that is truly disgusting
as bern o said the standard of the instructors and students hasnt really changed much - but the course (lack of) content has
what a waste of everybodys ( instructors and students ) time if these figures are correct
louby
if this is indeed true - that is truly disgusting
as bern o said the standard of the instructors and students hasnt really changed much - but the course (lack of) content has
what a waste of everybodys ( instructors and students ) time if these figures are correct
louby
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sunny South
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to add to the above.
There were 12 on the course, 2 of which were experienced controllers before, 1 area, 1 ex mil. Out of the other 10, 1 was recoursed for medical reasons leaving 11 on the course.
Out of the 9 others with no previous ATC experience 3 passed, along with the 2 experienced guys.
So to summarise. Out of 11 people, 5 passed, two of which being the xeperienced guys.
There were 12 on the course, 2 of which were experienced controllers before, 1 area, 1 ex mil. Out of the other 10, 1 was recoursed for medical reasons leaving 11 on the course.
Out of the 9 others with no previous ATC experience 3 passed, along with the 2 experienced guys.
So to summarise. Out of 11 people, 5 passed, two of which being the xeperienced guys.
How very disheartening. At the risk of going over old ground, this is entirely the result of the attitude of NATS management and those others who were toadying to them.
"The recruits are not going to be aerodrome controllers, so there is no reason to train them in aerodrome control". I was actually told this by someone who was busy working her way up the greasy pole. That was the last thing that she would have advocated not long before when she was still one of the troops. Why then, I wonder, did she think that NATS and its predecessors in title had trained new controllers in aerodrome control first for the last fifty years? (Not only NATS, but IAL and other employers also, to my own knowledge).
At the risk of participating in Sybyll Fawlty's specialist subject ("the bleedin' obvious"), a trainee who has had some aerodrome control experience will have an understanding of the problems and criteria of operating an aerodrome, first-hand experience and knowledge of aircraft types and performance, practical RTF use, emergency scenarios, a wider breadth of understanding all round - and a degree of CONFIDENCE on which to build. None of this is possible by completing a largely theoretical introductory course and then being thrown in at the deep end in either approach radar or area radar.
The NATS middle manager who is the first to declare that the Emperor has no clothes, the current system is wrong and that they need to revert to the original principle will have my respect. "Investor in People"? - I don't think so.
"The recruits are not going to be aerodrome controllers, so there is no reason to train them in aerodrome control". I was actually told this by someone who was busy working her way up the greasy pole. That was the last thing that she would have advocated not long before when she was still one of the troops. Why then, I wonder, did she think that NATS and its predecessors in title had trained new controllers in aerodrome control first for the last fifty years? (Not only NATS, but IAL and other employers also, to my own knowledge).
At the risk of participating in Sybyll Fawlty's specialist subject ("the bleedin' obvious"), a trainee who has had some aerodrome control experience will have an understanding of the problems and criteria of operating an aerodrome, first-hand experience and knowledge of aircraft types and performance, practical RTF use, emergency scenarios, a wider breadth of understanding all round - and a degree of CONFIDENCE on which to build. None of this is possible by completing a largely theoretical introductory course and then being thrown in at the deep end in either approach radar or area radar.
The NATS middle manager who is the first to declare that the Emperor has no clothes, the current system is wrong and that they need to revert to the original principle will have my respect. "Investor in People"? - I don't think so.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: By the Sea-side
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nah Bumpy, even NATS can tell the difference between someone like sr who is merely making an observation in a creative and positive way, and someone who is taking a pop.[no prob sr
]
Sr's opinions may well provide valuable insight into the psyche of NATS current batch of students and help to build a better, more effective course of training. Please note use of word "may".
] Sr's opinions may well provide valuable insight into the psyche of NATS current batch of students and help to build a better, more effective course of training. Please note use of word "may".
d!Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was a course that famously all but 1 failed area radar but some managed to pass on the resit. Remember that it's all been done before and STILL the lesson has not been learnt.
TS
TS
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: S coast
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the subject of low pass rates on the odd individual course, is it not possible that sometimes the pass rate is accurate?...there are stars and duffers in every walk of life; whoever said selection is an exact science?
Maybe, on occasion, a rocky ride through the portals of CATC is a portent of a rocky ride to failing to validate...just tells you quicker.
(Ducking into slit trench to avoid incoming)
Tori
Maybe, on occasion, a rocky ride through the portals of CATC is a portent of a rocky ride to failing to validate...just tells you quicker.
(Ducking into slit trench to avoid incoming)
Tori
