Definition of 'Fast Moving'
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Definition of 'Fast Moving'
Flying a Islander I was warned by the ATSU providing a RIS of 'fast moving' traffic etc. It was a pair of Canberras which I estimated at around 200 kts. Obviously a bit faster than I was doing in the Islander but lead me to wonder. Is there a diffinitive speed for issuing a 'fast moving' advisory or is it relative to the respective aircraft. (Presumably the same applies to 'Slow Moving'?
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No definitions that I'm aware of. A controller often has no way of determining the groundspeed of a target so it's usually a subjective judgement to give the pilot being told about the traffic an ideaof whether to look out for military jet or a microlight.
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a pair of Canberras which I estimated at around 200 kts.
Spitoon The afterglow, or track history, on the radar gives a pretty good idea of the speed; also most modern systems will also display ground speed.
edited for spelling errors
Last edited by Lon More; 4th Jul 2005 at 11:55.
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Ok, maybe I should have said that controllers often have no way to accurately determine the groundspeed of an aircraft from the radar.
The target trail can give an indication of speed but can also be misleading (and if you're relying on radar data only, even the g/s readout can be misleading with some manoeuvres). Depending on the type of processing and display the controller can sometimes also make an educated guess at the type of aircraft from the 'strength' of the return.
The target trail can give an indication of speed but can also be misleading (and if you're relying on radar data only, even the g/s readout can be misleading with some manoeuvres). Depending on the type of processing and display the controller can sometimes also make an educated guess at the type of aircraft from the 'strength' of the return.
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spitoon
sorry wrong again...
the actual ground spped of a squawking radar contact is just a "right click" away.... air speed is another matter though?
To me, "fast moving" tends to mean significantly faster than you". In a Canberra it'd need to be fighter speed, but in a C172 it could easily be a Canberra... it's all relative.... much like "slow moving"
sorry wrong again...
Ok, maybe I should have said that controllers often have no way to accurately determine the groundspeed of an aircraft from the radar
To me, "fast moving" tends to mean significantly faster than you". In a Canberra it'd need to be fighter speed, but in a C172 it could easily be a Canberra... it's all relative.... much like "slow moving"
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TWO Canberras as the same time - thats quite rare nowadays! Was over at Marham the other day and had a tour of the Canberra hangar - two grounded, one poorly and two flying in the UK and some off taking photos!!
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the actual ground spped of a squawking radar contact is just a "right click" away
Still, only a few years till the new place opens...
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Significantly faster than you, we often get enough information from the aircrafts behaviour and SSR code to make an educated guess,
ie if it's being a bloody nuisance, there's a good chance it's an F15.
ie if it's being a bloody nuisance, there's a good chance it's an F15.
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the actual ground spped of a squawking radar contact is just a "right click" away....
Getting back to the main point. The controller concerned obviously had a bit of nouse about him and called "fast moving" to get your attention (Which he obviously did) as the conflictor was obviously not another C152 or Islander and was likely to "spong" you at short notice.
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Whatever happened to professionalism?
There are presently some three threads on these forums where controllers are having a go at each other (I know, I've done it myself in the past)
"My system is better/worse than yours" is not the way forward, particularly as in another thread there are complaints about the travel perks, or rather lack of them, available to control staff
Lon More,
here before Pontius was a Pilot or Mortus a Rigger,and now very happy to be out of it
There are presently some three threads on these forums where controllers are having a go at each other (I know, I've done it myself in the past)
"My system is better/worse than yours" is not the way forward, particularly as in another thread there are complaints about the travel perks, or rather lack of them, available to control staff
Lon More,
here before Pontius was a Pilot or Mortus a Rigger,and now very happy to be out of it
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Back in the old days:
Twin jet = Canberra or Dominie (c/s gave a clue)
Single jet = Lightning
Twin prop = Viking
multi-engine = Belfast (low level) or Brittannia (above FL 60)
Twin jet = Canberra or Dominie (c/s gave a clue)
Single jet = Lightning
Twin prop = Viking
multi-engine = Belfast (low level) or Brittannia (above FL 60)
Yes the Lightning has two engines, and was sometimes referred to as a 'Vertical Twin Jet', due to its fairly unique engine configuration. Definitely "fast moving traffic", though, sadly, unlikely to be seen flying other than in South African skies. 
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Is there a definitive speed for the reactions required to avoid something moving fast? 
I always believed the description fast moving was used to imply that if it is heading for you then you better be fast moving out of the way. If it isn't yet heading towards you if soon could be could be.
Regards
DFC
I always believed the description fast moving was used to imply that if it is heading for you then you better be fast moving out of the way. If it isn't yet heading towards you if soon could be could be.
Regards
DFC
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Twin= Also Phantom, Buccaneer, Jaguar, Tornado
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vertical twin jet... military eight jet... I just love it when people thing they are hiding something from you... what else could we have? Double rotary, Supersonic passenger carrier (anyone?)
... and also apologise to all those impoverished ATCOs out there whose employers can't/won't afford 21st century equipment... to think we thought ours was the worst and we were lagging behind on the technology stakes. You'll be telling me you still use chinagraphs next!!!!
Sorry I digress
... and also apologise to all those impoverished ATCOs out there whose employers can't/won't afford 21st century equipment... to think we thought ours was the worst and we were lagging behind on the technology stakes. You'll be telling me you still use chinagraphs next!!!!
Sorry I digress