Red Stop Bars
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 34
From: London,England
Seen rule "D" broken more than once. Totally pointless anyway as far as I can see. You don't require a vehicle to see you past a painted yellow stop bar marker, what's the difference?, you don't pass either without clearance. One is a painted yellow line that can't be switched off and the other is a line of red lights that can't be switched off.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Vienna
Shouldn't an Airfield Operations vehivle escort an aircraft instructed to cross a red stop bar to enter a runway?
How about a simple red / green traffic light at a runway holding point for control of non-radio vehicles.
A pretty dangerous situation....
1. There should be no conflicting signals - if there is a traffic light in addition to the stopbar, they should be connected and should always show the same message.
2. Why having a traffic light there - colocated with a stopbar? The driver of the non-radio car could also watch the stopbar - could'nt he?
3. Who wants to have a vehicle without radio cintact on the TWY / RWY?
4. Furthermore - I would imagine that a traffic light on a pole is quite an obstacle on the edge of a TWY / RWY.
Regards, Bernhard
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: The Mysterious East
Hi Bernhard,
Re your points...
1. There should be no conflicting signals - if there is a traffic light in addition to the stopbar, they should be connected and should always show the same message.
+
2. Why having a traffic light there - colocated with a stopbar? The driver of the non-radio car could also watch the stopbar - could'nt he?
The scenario I was describing was at an airfield without stopbars. This is a common arrangement at UK military airfields.
3. Who wants to have a vehicle without radio cintact on the TWY / RWY?
Not me! But sometimes "MT Routes" cross runways.
See RAF Gibraltar for a lovely example of a dual carriageway, 2 cycle paths, 2 pedestrian walkways and a military MT Route crossing a runway.
4. Furthermore - I would imagine that a traffic light on a pole is quite an obstacle on the edge of a TWY / RWY.
Don't worry
, the type I was referring to in my original post is not on a pole. It's at ground level in a frangible box, well clear of the runway.
Another consideration with this type of system is that often one switch controls lights on both sides of the runway, hence the reason for not always wanting to select the lights to green and letting all the waiting traffic, both sides, cross your runway.
I wish I'd never asked the question in the first place now as it seems the only person who seemed to know what I was talking about was Chilli. I guess I could have gone in to more detail, but I couldn't be arsed really. That'll teach me to be think/type out loud.
Hey, here's an idea! how about a military ATC forum?
Best Regards,
LXGB
Re your points...
1. There should be no conflicting signals - if there is a traffic light in addition to the stopbar, they should be connected and should always show the same message.
+
2. Why having a traffic light there - colocated with a stopbar? The driver of the non-radio car could also watch the stopbar - could'nt he?
The scenario I was describing was at an airfield without stopbars. This is a common arrangement at UK military airfields.
3. Who wants to have a vehicle without radio cintact on the TWY / RWY?
Not me! But sometimes "MT Routes" cross runways.
See RAF Gibraltar for a lovely example of a dual carriageway, 2 cycle paths, 2 pedestrian walkways and a military MT Route crossing a runway.
4. Furthermore - I would imagine that a traffic light on a pole is quite an obstacle on the edge of a TWY / RWY.
Don't worry
, the type I was referring to in my original post is not on a pole. It's at ground level in a frangible box, well clear of the runway.Another consideration with this type of system is that often one switch controls lights on both sides of the runway, hence the reason for not always wanting to select the lights to green and letting all the waiting traffic, both sides, cross your runway.
I wish I'd never asked the question in the first place now as it seems the only person who seemed to know what I was talking about was Chilli. I guess I could have gone in to more detail, but I couldn't be arsed really. That'll teach me to be think/type out loud.
Hey, here's an idea! how about a military ATC forum?
Best Regards,
LXGB
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Vienna
wish I'd never asked the question in the first place now as it seems the only person who seemed to know what I was talking about was Chilli. I guess I could have gone in to more detail, but I couldn't be arsed really. That'll teach me to be think/type out loud.
Wrong conclusion - I was able to learn something, so no problem
Regrads, Bernhard
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
From: In the world
cleared to line-up, red stop bar lights at CAT II holding point. Queried this, line-up clearance confirmed.....stop bars changed to green.
I think I should re-read my MATS pt 1 again...
