Unreported Incidents
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Widger,
Sorry this person is not qualified to employ me, nor would I work for such an unprofessional person.
So what is it? Turn down your aplication for a job or something?
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qcode,thank you for answering my initial questions. Of course, with out going into major specifics, could you perhaps expand a little on what you have found regarding procedures and their effect on human performance.
I'll try not to be as blunt as some of the others here, but I personally think the reason you have put a few noses out of joint is that you did admit you have no evidence to support any of the claims, yet you do give the impression of believing there is some "conspiracy" or whatever majorly covering up aviation incidents.
You do seem to be talking cross purposes when you say things like "I have no evidence, and as if the thread suggests because of the non reporting of the incident , then there will not be any". Sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever. What sounds like word of mouth, I think you have heard something, maybe even form this board. Several operational ATCers have given you answers and input that you are ignoring for what ever your reason is. I guess that is why there is the warning at the bottom of the pages regarding agendas. Maybe I will have to be blunt, but do you have another agenda, because questioning the saftey of people in the job on this internet forum isn't going to achieve anything.
I'll try not to be as blunt as some of the others here, but I personally think the reason you have put a few noses out of joint is that you did admit you have no evidence to support any of the claims, yet you do give the impression of believing there is some "conspiracy" or whatever majorly covering up aviation incidents.
You do seem to be talking cross purposes when you say things like "I have no evidence, and as if the thread suggests because of the non reporting of the incident , then there will not be any". Sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever. What sounds like word of mouth, I think you have heard something, maybe even form this board. Several operational ATCers have given you answers and input that you are ignoring for what ever your reason is. I guess that is why there is the warning at the bottom of the pages regarding agendas. Maybe I will have to be blunt, but do you have another agenda, because questioning the saftey of people in the job on this internet forum isn't going to achieve anything.
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Sorry this person is not qualified to employ me, nor would I work for such an unprofessional person.
Devils advocate mode[/off]
Ohcirrej
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I do not hope that any of your attitude affects your new colleagues
I would also strongly suggest and encourage you to maintain your ability to make decisions without the slightest bit of factual evidence and purely base it on hearsay.........it will earn you the respect you deserve.
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I do not just give my opinion on "hearsay". I am only making a comment on this thread. My future career and the aviation industry will depend on my comments regarding (alledged) incidents such as this. What some of the more blunter replies show to me that there is a certain protection of colleagues. It is not the protection of fellow workmates which is the problem, it is the necessisity to ensure safe aviation practice worldwide. Fortunate or unfortunate my expertise (or lack of, as some of you believe) will be in the Human Factors side. I have flown for 13 years now and studied Aviation for 10 years. I am enthusiastic about the industry and want to contribute more. Human Factors is the side I am mainly interested in. If you want to continue slagging me off then that is up to you, you can't beat professional equality and respect.
Rgds
Rgds
Ohcirrej
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I do not just give my opinion on "hearsay"
And "professional equality and respect" is something that has to be earned, and is so easily quashed when you anonymously accuse anyone of being anything other than professional.
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Fickle? Well, something like that, Jer! 
qcode, with all respect, for someone who has self proclaimed expertise in Human Factors (an area in which I am no more than a very interested amateur, I freely admit), you seem to be lacking some understanding of how your comments come across.
Just think for a moment, if I commented on a thread in a G5 pilots' forum, flinging accusations around that G5 pilots are unsafe; that they fail to log air safety reports; that their bosses, who might be on the airprox board, fail to file reports; that there's a big cover up and all round lack of professionalism, what would be the reaction from you and your colleagues? Perhaps then I might back up my accusations with phrases such as: "I have no evidence" and "I'm not a pilot, but I've read all the G5 flight manuals...." What would be the response then?
An interesting HF question, isn't it?
qcode, with all respect, for someone who has self proclaimed expertise in Human Factors (an area in which I am no more than a very interested amateur, I freely admit), you seem to be lacking some understanding of how your comments come across.
Just think for a moment, if I commented on a thread in a G5 pilots' forum, flinging accusations around that G5 pilots are unsafe; that they fail to log air safety reports; that their bosses, who might be on the airprox board, fail to file reports; that there's a big cover up and all round lack of professionalism, what would be the reaction from you and your colleagues? Perhaps then I might back up my accusations with phrases such as: "I have no evidence" and "I'm not a pilot, but I've read all the G5 flight manuals...." What would be the response then?
An interesting HF question, isn't it?
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Gonzo,
Good points and thank you, I accept your points with constructive criticism. Another good thing to arise out of this thread is different peoples attitudes towards safety issues.
Regarding the flying, I can assure you that all our reports are filed on our particular a/c and any continuing crews are advised. We only have one boss and he is even more concerned with safety than I, as he is mostly one of the few passengers.
Jerricho,
Again I say to you I am only commenting on this thread. It is only from what I percieve and what I believe to be correct.
Good points and thank you, I accept your points with constructive criticism. Another good thing to arise out of this thread is different peoples attitudes towards safety issues.
Regarding the flying, I can assure you that all our reports are filed on our particular a/c and any continuing crews are advised. We only have one boss and he is even more concerned with safety than I, as he is mostly one of the few passengers.
Jerricho,
Again I say to you I am only commenting on this thread. It is only from what I percieve and what I believe to be correct.
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My future career and the aviation industry will depend on my comments regarding (alledged [sic]) incidents such as this.
Sheesh. A legend in his own mind.
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Qcode,
I'm not sure how many ATCOs you've had the chance to talk to, but the first thing we're all taught on day one, and roughly about every hour on the hour after that is 'safety first'. There is a very obvious safety culture amongst UK ATCOs (I mention UK ATCOs as I only have experience of the training and operational culture in this country) at 'the coal face'. It has to be said that this is sometimes 'despite' rather than 'because of' our management/non-operational/Airport authority support.
No one segment of aviation/industry/life is perfect, and we do have our fair share of those who might not have the same enthusiasm, or order of priorities for safety as do most of us. I myself have sent reports direct to the CAA SRG and CHIRP as well as to my management, rather than just to my superiors.
I'm not sure how many ATCOs you've had the chance to talk to, but the first thing we're all taught on day one, and roughly about every hour on the hour after that is 'safety first'. There is a very obvious safety culture amongst UK ATCOs (I mention UK ATCOs as I only have experience of the training and operational culture in this country) at 'the coal face'. It has to be said that this is sometimes 'despite' rather than 'because of' our management/non-operational/Airport authority support.
No one segment of aviation/industry/life is perfect, and we do have our fair share of those who might not have the same enthusiasm, or order of priorities for safety as do most of us. I myself have sent reports direct to the CAA SRG and CHIRP as well as to my management, rather than just to my superiors.
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CRR,
I'm sorry not to have answered your questions. As you are aware a thesis is a very complicated and researched process. Your questions cannot be answered on an individual basis. There are many procedures that effect performance for both pilots and controllers, not forgetting mangement and ground staff. I cannot expand any further. Please send me a PM if you want to discuss.
Let me point out to you all a recent incident which I have benn looking at.
AIRTRANSAT fuel leak, was nearly ditched into the pond. Thank God it never happenned. What was the cause? Failure to fit the wrong part in the engine, what follwed from this? Bad crew management. Luckily they were diverted 60 miles south of the original track which meant that they could, or were enable to, glide enough to reach the Azores and land.
This "incident" was a near catastrophe. It all boils down to human factors, which started at the beginning.
I'm sorry not to have answered your questions. As you are aware a thesis is a very complicated and researched process. Your questions cannot be answered on an individual basis. There are many procedures that effect performance for both pilots and controllers, not forgetting mangement and ground staff. I cannot expand any further. Please send me a PM if you want to discuss.
Let me point out to you all a recent incident which I have benn looking at.
AIRTRANSAT fuel leak, was nearly ditched into the pond. Thank God it never happenned. What was the cause? Failure to fit the wrong part in the engine, what follwed from this? Bad crew management. Luckily they were diverted 60 miles south of the original track which meant that they could, or were enable to, glide enough to reach the Azores and land.
This "incident" was a near catastrophe. It all boils down to human factors, which started at the beginning.
Failure to fit the wrong part in the engine,
Does that mean they fitted the correct part? I hope your thesis is a bit more accurate than that. Joking aside, Qcode your posts come across as very "holier than though" and give the impression that no-one else on this forum is entitled to a professional opinion. What is this role you will be taking on? Secretary of State? If so then you can expect a whole lot of extra abuse.
The whole story to this forum was Nginear, yet again slurring the good name of someone that I have personally known for over 10 years. I had worked with him in the past and continue to do so. As a friend I felt the need to defend this person.
I totally refute the scurrilous accusations made against him. If there is an issue about personalities, then the people concerned should take the matter up with him direct. He was publically identified by Nginear in a previous forum and there were some other posts, kindly deleted by the Moderator, that directly attacked the individual concerned. I was with him when he received the news of the latter attack on his character and he was understandably hurt and mortified that someone thought of him in this way. By the way..inmate of HMP West Drayton,....we know who you are!
All the previous comments about the controllers concerned filing reports are equally valid. I do not accept that there is a conspiracy to cover up incidents. I feel that there is a very healthy safety culture in the UK, despite commercial pressures that have built up over many years. Many agencies promote this safety culture, from DASC in the military, to GATCO, BALPA, the Unions and even companies like NATS itself.
have a pleasant week!
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qcode
There you go -
Widger, a chap / lass (sorry Widger, didn't want to guess) who DOES have a fact or two has bestowed them upon you.
Read, Digest and do us all a favour by stopping your attempts to justify an attack upon a profession, and specifically an individual, which you have no basis in FACT to support.
How, as a self professed "expert", can you justify spouting cr#p and expect not to be challenged? The Aviation profession deals in fact, not supposition!! - its a safety thing! Page one of the book - not the book that starts "Once upon a time....."
There you go -
Widger, a chap / lass (sorry Widger, didn't want to guess) who DOES have a fact or two has bestowed them upon you.
Read, Digest and do us all a favour by stopping your attempts to justify an attack upon a profession, and specifically an individual, which you have no basis in FACT to support.
How, as a self professed "expert", can you justify spouting cr#p and expect not to be challenged? The Aviation profession deals in fact, not supposition!! - its a safety thing! Page one of the book - not the book that starts "Once upon a time....."
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If certain professionals want to go around and make themselves appear as idiots then it is not my problem. If they do not wish to conform to the rules then that is up to them. Fortunately, my initial post is true. I know the names of the controllers involved and even the names of some of the passengers on the second aircraft. My initial question was regarding aviation safety and whether this practice happens elsewhere, and if it does it should be stopped. Do you think that the police pick on criminals and publicly humiliate them by sending them to court for breaking the law?
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The Aviation profession deals in fact, not supposition!! - its a safety thing!
Don't talk sh1te!!