Big Radar Displays
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Big Radar Displays
We've just got new big screens at ScACC. Hooray. Well, it would be hooray were it not for the fact that their introduction has been yet another ScOACC farce. Firstly, the background:
Our much loved old Marconi Locus 16 circular displays were coming to the end of their lives towards the end of last century and with NPC delayed it became clear that they would need replacing. Enter the Hitachi Skyline displays which are basically adapted PC monitors. These were chosen not because they were the best or, indeed, any good at all. No, they were chosen because they fitted into the existing furniture. They even spent good money on programming in the functionality of the Locus 16 so they wouldn't have to spend money training us up on the new display. I kid you not, they actually spent money to make a 1990s display behave like a 1970s display.
Anyway, they were brought in a couple of years ago to almost universal derision. They were small, lacked the clarity of the Locus 16 and suffered from dreadful overlap problems. We moaned and whinged enough for the powers that be to eventually introduce some tweaks, a new font, a new font colour (white) and recently we got some colour on the video map. However, it was immediately apparent that the size of the displays were too small, especially on the busy TMA sectors where the label overlap problem was at its greatest.
So, reluctantly they decided to invest in some new big 28 inch BARCO displays. Not for every position, mind you. No, just for the Talla, Galloway and Deancross sectors. They are now installed. We should be happy. We are not.
Due to the limitation of the furniture, they have installed the displays too low. As a result, the strip board is flat but the impression you get when sat at the sector is that the strip board is slanting away from you. People have actually complained about feeling nausious. There are other issues - the displays seem very reflective, have a blue tint that reduces the contrast and there should be a bigger font size. Also, going from one of these big displays to one of the small displays that remain elsewhere in the room takes a huge adjustment.
The main problem is, however, the low mounting and flat strip board. In fact, we have shoved strip holders down the back of the boards which prop them up. This feels a lot better but makes the bottom three inches of the radar display unusable.
Anyway, sorry to have prattled on but the point I'm getting at is this: does anwhere else in the Air Traffic world have to put up with such short sighted, half arsed 'improvements'? Or is it just us? No doubt we will moan and whinge once more and eventually we will get something that is usable but would it not be nice if they could get it right, or nearly right, the first time? Especially considering that we warned them of these problems during the evaluation process prior to their introduction.
Our much loved old Marconi Locus 16 circular displays were coming to the end of their lives towards the end of last century and with NPC delayed it became clear that they would need replacing. Enter the Hitachi Skyline displays which are basically adapted PC monitors. These were chosen not because they were the best or, indeed, any good at all. No, they were chosen because they fitted into the existing furniture. They even spent good money on programming in the functionality of the Locus 16 so they wouldn't have to spend money training us up on the new display. I kid you not, they actually spent money to make a 1990s display behave like a 1970s display.
Anyway, they were brought in a couple of years ago to almost universal derision. They were small, lacked the clarity of the Locus 16 and suffered from dreadful overlap problems. We moaned and whinged enough for the powers that be to eventually introduce some tweaks, a new font, a new font colour (white) and recently we got some colour on the video map. However, it was immediately apparent that the size of the displays were too small, especially on the busy TMA sectors where the label overlap problem was at its greatest.
So, reluctantly they decided to invest in some new big 28 inch BARCO displays. Not for every position, mind you. No, just for the Talla, Galloway and Deancross sectors. They are now installed. We should be happy. We are not.
Due to the limitation of the furniture, they have installed the displays too low. As a result, the strip board is flat but the impression you get when sat at the sector is that the strip board is slanting away from you. People have actually complained about feeling nausious. There are other issues - the displays seem very reflective, have a blue tint that reduces the contrast and there should be a bigger font size. Also, going from one of these big displays to one of the small displays that remain elsewhere in the room takes a huge adjustment.
The main problem is, however, the low mounting and flat strip board. In fact, we have shoved strip holders down the back of the boards which prop them up. This feels a lot better but makes the bottom three inches of the radar display unusable.
Anyway, sorry to have prattled on but the point I'm getting at is this: does anwhere else in the Air Traffic world have to put up with such short sighted, half arsed 'improvements'? Or is it just us? No doubt we will moan and whinge once more and eventually we will get something that is usable but would it not be nice if they could get it right, or nearly right, the first time? Especially considering that we warned them of these problems during the evaluation process prior to their introduction.
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BALIX, I know where you are coming from 100%. I'm not going to say you have to put up with it, or try to make ourselves out to be worse, however what you say sounds very much like what has been going on at Swanwick too. We dont have the strip board tilting away, but we have incredibly small boards to fit the suite that was built for no strips. We have non-reflective screens that on occasions cannot be used due to too much reflection due to the ops room lights being set slightly brighter that usual. We have had fonts and font colours tampered with, and the overlap is so bad that the old things we used at LATCC West Drayton are fondly missed. On top of this, the support screens (SIS) are set at a bad angle, has bad fonts, and very limited information. The stuff we need ie. Departure screens is not available, and other useful info has been removed due to the lack of memory in the computer. On the other side, we have got some funky tools to play with that actually do improve controlling, but it doesn't help when you cannot see the picture properly in the first place.
Feeling your angst, 5mb
Feeling your angst, 5mb
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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The thing that really gets my goat 5milesbaby is that we were consulted prior to the introduction of these screens, unlike the small screens they are partially replacing. Great, we thought, we will be able to have our say.
A working mock-up was duly set up and we were all sent along to look at it and make comments. The problem with the strip board, the reflectivity and all the other problems I've mentioned were brought up at the time by many different controllers. Yet when the screens were brought in operationally, the problems were exactly the same as we had pointed out during this consultation process. Sure, one or two other problems will be discoverd in the light of operational experience but the main ones were identified and ignored before they went live.
The thing is, the big screens ARE an improvement. That fact becomes obvious whenever you have to go back to using the ridiculous small ones. But they do have issues, serious issues in fact, that they shouldn't have and wouldn't have if only they had listened to us in the first place...
A working mock-up was duly set up and we were all sent along to look at it and make comments. The problem with the strip board, the reflectivity and all the other problems I've mentioned were brought up at the time by many different controllers. Yet when the screens were brought in operationally, the problems were exactly the same as we had pointed out during this consultation process. Sure, one or two other problems will be discoverd in the light of operational experience but the main ones were identified and ignored before they went live.
The thing is, the big screens ARE an improvement. That fact becomes obvious whenever you have to go back to using the ridiculous small ones. But they do have issues, serious issues in fact, that they shouldn't have and wouldn't have if only they had listened to us in the first place...
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Don't use strips in my part of the world. We have big arse screens (Barcos) and we trialled a heap in the Simulator where people could go and check them out. I personally put a stop to one of our secondary screens as it was crap. There were a few with excess glare. Interestingly enough, for once our Employer didn't look at the dollars side and got what I thought was the best and I belive the most expensive.
Unfortunately our consoles (which won an award for design because they were the only entrant) are absolute **** for anyone over 5'8" (I am 6'4"). I have my arse nearly on the floor and get shoulder pain from driving the mouse all day sometimes.
Unfortunately our consoles (which won an award for design because they were the only entrant) are absolute **** for anyone over 5'8" (I am 6'4"). I have my arse nearly on the floor and get shoulder pain from driving the mouse all day sometimes.
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5milesbaby
The iFACTS furniture rollout starts later this year and should be complete by April 06. This gives you new flat BARCO ISIS screens. The radar screen is tiltable (fixed at the bottom, movable from the top). The SIS screen is on an arm so you move it where best suits you. The paper strip boards are where they are now but the furniture will be prepared ready for the iFACTS screen to be fitted underneath when we go paperless.
What other info do you want to see on SIS? Fill in an observation form 'cause we can't hear you otherwise.
Ah departure CCTV, an ongoing 'issue' and one which we've proposed many times only to get constant senior management kickback. I know theres an IP (which doesn't say Dep CCTV but gives the same info) in the system somewhere but not sure how far its got yet.
PM me if you want more detail
BD
What other info do you want to see on SIS? Fill in an observation form 'cause we can't hear you otherwise.
Ah departure CCTV, an ongoing 'issue' and one which we've proposed many times only to get constant senior management kickback. I know theres an IP (which doesn't say Dep CCTV but gives the same info) in the system somewhere but not sure how far its got yet.
PM me if you want more detail
BD
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tobzalp,
I see you working in Aisle 3, you've just got bad posture dude. I'm a touch shorter than you (6'3", or 190cm if you live in the 21st century) and I have no problem. Must be the adjustable chairs we have in aisle 2.
You also forgot to mention the colour display, and wait til you see the new alerts we've developed for version 42. The STCAs cannot be ignored.
But yes mate we have the badarse screens from Barco and I must admit they're better than the old sonys. Now if only we could get Foxtel connected to the screens for the doggos (Ashes series coming up).
I see you working in Aisle 3, you've just got bad posture dude. I'm a touch shorter than you (6'3", or 190cm if you live in the 21st century) and I have no problem. Must be the adjustable chairs we have in aisle 2.
You also forgot to mention the colour display, and wait til you see the new alerts we've developed for version 42. The STCAs cannot be ignored.
But yes mate we have the badarse screens from Barco and I must admit they're better than the old sonys. Now if only we could get Foxtel connected to the screens for the doggos (Ashes series coming up).
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BDiONU, thanks for that reply. I have seen the iFACTS stuff and agree its a vast improvement, shame its about 4 years late based on this topic's issues.
As for SIS - the entire MATS Parts 1 and 2 please, and all the information for every UK and close European sector/Airfield/STAR etc. The stuff thats been removed recently that was there has been useful in the past and shouldn't have gone, and some wasn't there even in the first place.
Departure TV is an issue that grates mine and many of my collegues bones as we work sectors that would be greatly helped by its introduction for bandboxing/splitting/flow measures. How management cannot introduce it is appauling.
On the note of useful tools, a better EAT feed (ie an accurate one like what the LAS's have access to) would be advantageous to both us and pilots alike.
PS how are the new screens going to react to fingers and pen? Surely Plasma doesn't mix well with this and you are never going to stop it happenning!!??!!
As for SIS - the entire MATS Parts 1 and 2 please, and all the information for every UK and close European sector/Airfield/STAR etc. The stuff thats been removed recently that was there has been useful in the past and shouldn't have gone, and some wasn't there even in the first place.
Departure TV is an issue that grates mine and many of my collegues bones as we work sectors that would be greatly helped by its introduction for bandboxing/splitting/flow measures. How management cannot introduce it is appauling.
On the note of useful tools, a better EAT feed (ie an accurate one like what the LAS's have access to) would be advantageous to both us and pilots alike.
PS how are the new screens going to react to fingers and pen? Surely Plasma doesn't mix well with this and you are never going to stop it happenning!!??!!
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5milesbaby
You couldn't have this stuff 4 years ago 'cause:
1) The new screens are new technology, the Sony screens were all that was around when this centre was designed.
2) If we had upgraded everything to the latest technology as it appeared on the market this place would never have opened. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.
SIS is designed as a tactical database for tactical data. Its not intended for huge chunks like MATs Pt1 & Pt2. One could query why, as a controller on console, you'd want to access that sort of info. It is available on the NATS intranet and there are a lot of BDN PC's around for when you're off console. There is an argument (and a proposition) for the EBS to be made available through SIS.
Airfield and STAR info will need you to fill in an observation (its the only way we can 'hear' you).
The IP for Dep CCTV has stalled basically because the move of TC team have not decided as to whether or not they require CDIS down at Swanwick. Also the unit has been operational for 3.5 years without it PLUS there have been no observations about the lack of it for 18 months now.
Not aware of a single observation on having EAT on console. No observations = no-one wants it.
Because of the propensity for people touching the screens they will have to have a thin protective screen in front of them. Increases reflection and glare but fingerprints would be worse!
BD
1) The new screens are new technology, the Sony screens were all that was around when this centre was designed.
2) If we had upgraded everything to the latest technology as it appeared on the market this place would never have opened. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.
SIS is designed as a tactical database for tactical data. Its not intended for huge chunks like MATs Pt1 & Pt2. One could query why, as a controller on console, you'd want to access that sort of info. It is available on the NATS intranet and there are a lot of BDN PC's around for when you're off console. There is an argument (and a proposition) for the EBS to be made available through SIS.
Airfield and STAR info will need you to fill in an observation (its the only way we can 'hear' you).
The IP for Dep CCTV has stalled basically because the move of TC team have not decided as to whether or not they require CDIS down at Swanwick. Also the unit has been operational for 3.5 years without it PLUS there have been no observations about the lack of it for 18 months now.
Not aware of a single observation on having EAT on console. No observations = no-one wants it.
Because of the propensity for people touching the screens they will have to have a thin protective screen in front of them. Increases reflection and glare but fingerprints would be worse!
BD
Last edited by BDiONU; 24th May 2005 at 11:35.
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No observations = no-one wants it
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No observations = no-one wants it.
The fact that the lack of CCTV was implicated in at least TWO Overloads has been convienently forgotten.
MOST observations at LACC do not get progressed aparently due to "budget concerns". Meanwhile at the shiny new CTC the office staff enjoy large plasma TVs, a Patio with expensive furniture and heaters and StarBucks Coffee. No budget concerns there then. Is it any wonder that people don't bother with an obsevation system that lacks credibility?
You couldn't have this stuff 4 years ago 'cause:
1) The new screens are new technology, the Sony screens were all that was around when this centre was designed.
1) The new screens are new technology, the Sony screens were all that was around when this centre was designed.
SIS:
Its not intended for huge chunks like MATs Pt1 & Pt2. One could query why, as a controller on console, you'd want to access that sort of info.
SIS is poorly designed. If it is so very good, how many other service providers has NATS sold it to? Albania possibly?
A windows based system with a proper search function including wildcards would have been much more sensible and probably cheaper and quicker to comission. But hey, we've got "DataLand", so what's to complain about.
iFACTS will indeed be an improvement, but it's no panacea.
Rgds BEX
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BEXIL160
You're pushing against an open door mate!
Yes there were a couple of alternatves by the time LACC opened but to implement them would have delayed the opening (again). As I say a line has to be drawn in the sand.
I do query why you'd want MATS Pt1 & 2 at your workstation. Can you give me an answer? I can see why you might want access to some of the data held in the EBS.
SIS is indeed not great and it will be replaced, there are many COTS alternatives available now (at 10% of the cost!) but at the time thats all there was.
Remember that SIS is integrated into the Swanwick System and taking it out will mean a lot of work to deintegrate it. Builds for the foreseeable future are full with iFACTS especially.
I don't like dataland either but we're talking about an old system now which was cutting edge in its day and nothing around to 'challenge' it.
BD
Yes there were a couple of alternatves by the time LACC opened but to implement them would have delayed the opening (again). As I say a line has to be drawn in the sand.
I do query why you'd want MATS Pt1 & 2 at your workstation. Can you give me an answer? I can see why you might want access to some of the data held in the EBS.
SIS is indeed not great and it will be replaced, there are many COTS alternatives available now (at 10% of the cost!) but at the time thats all there was.
Remember that SIS is integrated into the Swanwick System and taking it out will mean a lot of work to deintegrate it. Builds for the foreseeable future are full with iFACTS especially.
I don't like dataland either but we're talking about an old system now which was cutting edge in its day and nothing around to 'challenge' it.
BD
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BDIONU,
I'd like access to all the Part One and Part Two stuff, because queries are often raised "on console" about what the book actually says about a particular situation, rather than what I think I remember. A basic tenet in aviation is "if in doubt, check", re-iterated in TRM recently, and A Good Thing.
The only way to check at the moment is to send a runner, the asst normally, to the LAS desk to bring the book back.. High tech, it's not.
SIS was never state of the art. Windows explorer 1.0 was released in 1995, before that Commodore (remember them?) had a search engine based on the AMIGA that was much more intuitive than SIS. Most of the early 1990s Comms software was more advanced.
Rgds BEX
I'd like access to all the Part One and Part Two stuff, because queries are often raised "on console" about what the book actually says about a particular situation, rather than what I think I remember. A basic tenet in aviation is "if in doubt, check", re-iterated in TRM recently, and A Good Thing.
The only way to check at the moment is to send a runner, the asst normally, to the LAS desk to bring the book back.. High tech, it's not.
SIS was never state of the art. Windows explorer 1.0 was released in 1995, before that Commodore (remember them?) had a search engine based on the AMIGA that was much more intuitive than SIS. Most of the early 1990s Comms software was more advanced.
Rgds BEX
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Meanwhile at the shiny new CTC the office staff enjoy large plasma TVs, a Patio with expensive furniture and heaters and StarBucks Coffee.
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Starbucks has arrived at Swanwick has it? So where is it? What are the opening times? Having been on nights I probably have been overlooked - oops - overlooked where it is. I bet the CTC also has a canteen that opens when the staff arrive in the morning and serves to when most have finished in the evening - ie. catering for all that work there. Shame that ALL the operational centres have been overlooked again and feel that ignored reply when we question the opening hours. Like to see Swanwick cope when TC/MASOR come along to play 
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5milesbaby
No Starbucks at Swanwick yet although there are moves afoot to get a coffee franchise opened somewhere. The Starbucks at CTC is a franchised operation and those franchises refuse to operate in the same room as any competition. The corridor by the viewing gallery has been mooted as a possible spot.
The CTC is not an operational unit and Swanwicks restaurant opens far earlier and closes far later than the CTC's (who do not offer dinner).
Lots of plans afoot for when TC come down (a third of the MASOR moved here the week before last) but catering is probably quite far down the operational list of things that need to be done.
Jerricho
iFACTS stands for interim Future Area Control Tools Support.
BD
The CTC is not an operational unit and Swanwicks restaurant opens far earlier and closes far later than the CTC's (who do not offer dinner).
Lots of plans afoot for when TC come down (a third of the MASOR moved here the week before last) but catering is probably quite far down the operational list of things that need to be done.
Jerricho
iFACTS stands for interim Future Area Control Tools Support.
BD