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All this talk of SRAs on less than perfect kit reminds me of the 424.
Not bad at all for half milers, when it wasn't raining, but that isn't my abiding memory.
The Tels engineers wouldn't go near the thing without being dressed in protective goggles, big rubber guantlets, a leather apron and wellies. They used to look like a lab assistant from a Frankenstein movie..... mind you, there WAS a big EHT ON/OFF switch on the console that also looked like it came from Hammer Horror
What always puzzled me was the fact that I had to sit in front of the two tubes dressed in shirtsleeves and a tie (yep, I really DID wear one then
).
Why all the protective gear chaps? Or was it just to make you and your art more mysterious?
Rgds BEX
Not bad at all for half milers, when it wasn't raining, but that isn't my abiding memory.
The Tels engineers wouldn't go near the thing without being dressed in protective goggles, big rubber guantlets, a leather apron and wellies. They used to look like a lab assistant from a Frankenstein movie..... mind you, there WAS a big EHT ON/OFF switch on the console that also looked like it came from Hammer Horror
What always puzzled me was the fact that I had to sit in front of the two tubes dressed in shirtsleeves and a tie (yep, I really DID wear one then
).Why all the protective gear chaps? Or was it just to make you and your art more mysterious?
Rgds BEX
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Bex... Tels is a black art! I recall one bloke at Heathrow put his arm inside one of the old ASMI displays and touched an EHT contact whilst his elbow brushed against the cabinet. His arm was split open from the elbow to his wrist.... made his eyes water a bit.
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I'm really chuffed I started this one. ATC and associated equipment is a particular hobby horse of mine and it's good to see there's a lot of interest on this forum.
We used to have a Plessey 430 at my local gaff. It ran concurrently with the Watchman for about five years before being carted off to a mystery buyer. I was amazed anyone wanted it, being about twenty five years old already and second hand when we acquired it. And not all that reliable, despite the best efforts of the Tels brigade. Not sure where it went. Some said Coventry, some said Bristol Lulsgate. Doubtful but Staverton do have the Maris 900 so who knows !
I think the Watchman at our place uses Barco displays and before that FR. Don't know about the ATM and we don't have ASMI, or whatever it's called these days. I dare say it would be a useful tool.
The 430 was a ground mounted device in red and white. The Watchman sits atop a straight gantry, except for those with the SSR aerials which are on a larger structure. I don't know what the 424, AR1.5 etc look like. Pictures anyone ?
We used to have a Plessey 430 at my local gaff. It ran concurrently with the Watchman for about five years before being carted off to a mystery buyer. I was amazed anyone wanted it, being about twenty five years old already and second hand when we acquired it. And not all that reliable, despite the best efforts of the Tels brigade. Not sure where it went. Some said Coventry, some said Bristol Lulsgate. Doubtful but Staverton do have the Maris 900 so who knows !
I think the Watchman at our place uses Barco displays and before that FR. Don't know about the ATM and we don't have ASMI, or whatever it's called these days. I dare say it would be a useful tool.
The 430 was a ground mounted device in red and white. The Watchman sits atop a straight gantry, except for those with the SSR aerials which are on a larger structure. I don't know what the 424, AR1.5 etc look like. Pictures anyone ?
Last edited by The Great Unwashed; 5th Feb 2005 at 10:35.
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Yes, an interesting thread indeed.. When I left school I was a lowly clerk at Min of Av Tels HQ where I worked in an office dealing with the installation of telephone equipment for ATC units. There were albums of the most amazing pics of ATC equipment - radar displays, control desks, R/T and telephone panels, etc. Probably all consigned to a bin long ago unfortunately.
There should be some very interesting pics in a forthcoming book on 50 years of Heathrow ATC... upon which I shall be working this very afternoon!
There should be some very interesting pics in a forthcoming book on 50 years of Heathrow ATC... upon which I shall be working this very afternoon!
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The Great Unwashed (and other radar spotters )
You may find this site interesting:
Radar Web Site
Mostly military air defence radar stuff, but interesting stuff, especially some of the stats about power etc on the old analogue radars.
Enjoy!
BA
)You may find this site interesting:
Radar Web Site
Mostly military air defence radar stuff, but interesting stuff, especially some of the stats about power etc on the old analogue radars.
Enjoy!
BA
Join Date: Dec 2002
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The Great Unwashed and everyone else,
It is entertaining to remeber distant and not-so-distant memories!
Fancy signal processing and sexy displays are nice for sure, but real power (in mega watts) and tens of thousands of volts were much more of a challenge!!
It's certainly a safer environment for controllers and techs today.
cheers all,
Bear 555
ps - photos to follow in a few days :-)
It is entertaining to remeber distant and not-so-distant memories!
Fancy signal processing and sexy displays are nice for sure, but real power (in mega watts) and tens of thousands of volts were much more of a challenge!!
It's certainly a safer environment for controllers and techs today.
cheers all,
Bear 555
ps - photos to follow in a few days :-)
Join Date: Oct 2000
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<<It's certainly a safer environment for controllers and techs today.>>
Tell 'em that at a certain aerodrome I know... where a "modern" display blew up in the equipment room. The fire alarm didn't go off because the air con was so strong it sucked away the smoke!
Tell 'em that at a certain aerodrome I know... where a "modern" display blew up in the equipment room. The fire alarm didn't go off because the air con was so strong it sucked away the smoke!
HEATHROW DIRECTOR,
I expect you'll know this one. What was the make and model of the huge circular radar displays installed in the ground floor APC room at Heathrow in the late '80s ? I haven't seen them in the flesh but pictures only and they struck me as being a little old fashioned for a new facility.
Do you know if they're still there for a back up facility ?
MC
I expect you'll know this one. What was the make and model of the huge circular radar displays installed in the ground floor APC room at Heathrow in the late '80s ? I haven't seen them in the flesh but pictures only and they struck me as being a little old fashioned for a new facility.
Do you know if they're still there for a back up facility ?
MC
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MC... I was there in the 80s, working in that room, but there weren't any unusual displays and I don't know the make/model of those we had. In the old 6th floor room we had two 12" raw-radar displays per position, one above the other. It was usually 50cm on the top and 10cm on the bottom. When we moved downstairs the tubes were bigger. In fact they were big enough so that having the extended centrelines set to the size we had them upstairs on the 10cm tubes meant that the overall coverage was still that of the 50cm display. They might have been 16"?? Far from being old-fashioned, they were the latest "thing" at the time but many of us preferred the old 6th floor stuff.
The displays at West Drayton are, I believe, even larger (20"?), but it would take someone current to confirm..
The displays at West Drayton are, I believe, even larger (20"?), but it would take someone current to confirm..
HD,
Thanks for your prompt reply. As I say, the displays just looked a bit dated but obviously they were pretty cutting-edge for the time.
I'd rather ignorantly expected colour displays to have been installed by then. Maybe this was a bit before their time.
Thanks for your prompt reply. As I say, the displays just looked a bit dated but obviously they were pretty cutting-edge for the time.
I'd rather ignorantly expected colour displays to have been installed by then. Maybe this was a bit before their time.
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Many thanks for all your replies folks. Got another question for you ! Anyone remember the rather large ground-sited primary radar heads used in the seventies and eighties ? There was one at Manchester, Glasgow and Jersey as well (I think) and one at Bristol as recently as 1992. I can't put a name, make or model to it but I'm sure someone else can. Is it per chance the oft-mentioned 264 or 424 ??
I seem to remember Manchester had another radar head by the taxiway on the way to the 06L threshold. Red and white circular thing on a gantry. Is it still there ?
Thanks as ever.
TGU
I seem to remember Manchester had another radar head by the taxiway on the way to the 06L threshold. Red and white circular thing on a gantry. Is it still there ?
Thanks as ever.
TGU
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If the antenna was basically a rectanglemthey were probably the Marconi 264. If the antenna had a curved top section it was probably the 232. Anyone confirm please? These would be quite big antennas. The small, circular one were probably ACR6, or similar 10cm radars..
Mooncrest: I showed round a party of Icelandic controllers in the late 70s and they couldn't believe we were using one-colour radar! British technology or something.
Mooncrest: I showed round a party of Icelandic controllers in the late 70s and they couldn't believe we were using one-colour radar! British technology or something.
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So that's what these great big radar heads are called. You could park a Beech 200 in the space they take up ! Obviously a classic. Are they as old as they look ?
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In my time i`ve worked 430 , watchman, 424 and s511 and of them all I prefered the watchman. In bad weather both the 430 and 424 could keep your heart racing and take a few years off your life expectancy as you struggled to track your blip through the background.
We`ve only stopped using "Raw" radar about 18 months ago and whilst the multicoloured tv displays are vey pretty I quite liked siiting in the dark with warm orange glow of the old tubes.
Is anyone still using raw radar these days? Or for that matter is anyone shifting upwards of 2 million pax with primary only as we have to?
We`ve only stopped using "Raw" radar about 18 months ago and whilst the multicoloured tv displays are vey pretty I quite liked siiting in the dark with warm orange glow of the old tubes.
Is anyone still using raw radar these days? Or for that matter is anyone shifting upwards of 2 million pax with primary only as we have to?