BRI - This & That WARNING
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Something I forgot to ask earlier;
When there is a sigmet in force that would affect traffic landing and departing from Bristol, is the content of that sigmet included in the ATIS?
Regards,
DFC
When there is a sigmet in force that would affect traffic landing and departing from Bristol, is the content of that sigmet included in the ATIS?
Regards,
DFC
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DFC, that would be too sensible mate.
As a matter of fact yesterday 13.4.05 there was a THUNDERSTORM WARNING CURRENT, very very frightening indeed.
OK some bubbly clouds yes, but they just couldn't wait to wheel out the next WARNING.
What is it with you BRS really!
As a matter of fact yesterday 13.4.05 there was a THUNDERSTORM WARNING CURRENT, very very frightening indeed.
OK some bubbly clouds yes, but they just couldn't wait to wheel out the next WARNING.
What is it with you BRS really!
StandupfortheUlstermen
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And "wheel" them out we merrily will, if nothing else, we can do it just to annoy the whiney beings amongst you. In fact, I might be tempted to put warnings up just to make sure you're all paying attention.
Forewarned is Forearmed
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Fool's hole; check out my post 29/1/05.
Thunderstorm Warnings issued at BRS aren't just for the benefit of aircrew, they are for also us on the ground here, over the years I have seen numerous things struck here by lightning, GPU'S Buildings, even the tower last year, along with Nav aidsl & aircraft.
I have been involved in some very near misses myself, next time you are trundling down 27/09 & notice the patchwork of asphalt, some if not most of this repair work was nessasary due to surface damage caused by lightning strikes
The risk here has been assessed in relation to Thunderstorm activity & it is deemed nessasary to operate a Shut down on the aprons, when there is thunderstorm activity in the vicinty.
Tea up!!
Thunderstorm Warnings issued at BRS aren't just for the benefit of aircrew, they are for also us on the ground here, over the years I have seen numerous things struck here by lightning, GPU'S Buildings, even the tower last year, along with Nav aidsl & aircraft.
I have been involved in some very near misses myself, next time you are trundling down 27/09 & notice the patchwork of asphalt, some if not most of this repair work was nessasary due to surface damage caused by lightning strikes
The risk here has been assessed in relation to Thunderstorm activity & it is deemed nessasary to operate a Shut down on the aprons, when there is thunderstorm activity in the vicinty.
Tea up!!
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Ranger, I'm sure no one would doubt that it's important to many other than pilots but I think the question is, why are warnings that are relevant to, for instance, Ops people, put on the ATIS? Bear in mind that the ATIS is supposed to take some of the RT pressure off ATC by broacasting information to pilots that would otherwise have to be passed by the controller.
Forewarned is Forearmed
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I believe its put on the ATIS not just for the benefit of the commercial crews who receive it over the RT or at breifing, but also for GA & light aircraft pilots some of which could be considering a cross country flight for example & want to get the ATIS via the phone before hand, or even en route so they can plan ahead as to whether to fly into BRS or give the whole place a miss based on these warnings.
I have seen a few interesting approaches & landings from the ones who have departed BRS & on the return found the weather not to be as they thought it would be.
I suppose we could say nothing & sod the lot
Check my post 29/01/05
Cheers
I have seen a few interesting approaches & landings from the ones who have departed BRS & on the return found the weather not to be as they thought it would be.
I suppose we could say nothing & sod the lot
Check my post 29/01/05
Cheers
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Ranger.
You may as well 'do nothing and sod the lot' as you put it because thats what all the other airfields do and it is not repeat NOT a problem.
Truth is, as an earlier poster said, the ATIS is there to save ATC the trouble of reading everyone the weather. If something short term but relevant needs to be passed on (say it looks like its about to clamp in with fog, or flocks of birds are seen or whatever), that should be passed by ATC on the VHF to warn folk that something unusual or unexpected is happening or may be about to happen.
To use the ATIS to broadcast 'warnings' about anything which may or may not happen is frankly lazy.
You only have to look at the number of times these 'warnings' are broadcast by ATIS when they are plainly wrong to see that the net effect is simply to cry 'wolf!'.
For example when we hear 'hail warning current' or 'thunderstorm warning current' on BRS ATIS does it mean 1.there is a TS overhead, or
2. there are some cells nearby or
3. there are a few Cu visible from the tower window
or what?
It's completely useless!
To summarise. Ill thought out 'warnings' that go on half the day, irespective of the conditions are worthless and are not trusted by those who listen to them. Do us all a favour and stop them.
I might add that suggestions that perhaps BRS have got this right and all the others have it wrong show breathtaking arrogance
Bristol is an (up and coming) regional airport but IMHO it could manage without these silly warnings just like all the other airports do.
You may as well 'do nothing and sod the lot' as you put it because thats what all the other airfields do and it is not repeat NOT a problem.
Truth is, as an earlier poster said, the ATIS is there to save ATC the trouble of reading everyone the weather. If something short term but relevant needs to be passed on (say it looks like its about to clamp in with fog, or flocks of birds are seen or whatever), that should be passed by ATC on the VHF to warn folk that something unusual or unexpected is happening or may be about to happen.
To use the ATIS to broadcast 'warnings' about anything which may or may not happen is frankly lazy.
You only have to look at the number of times these 'warnings' are broadcast by ATIS when they are plainly wrong to see that the net effect is simply to cry 'wolf!'.
For example when we hear 'hail warning current' or 'thunderstorm warning current' on BRS ATIS does it mean 1.there is a TS overhead, or
2. there are some cells nearby or
3. there are a few Cu visible from the tower window
or what?
It's completely useless!
To summarise. Ill thought out 'warnings' that go on half the day, irespective of the conditions are worthless and are not trusted by those who listen to them. Do us all a favour and stop them.
I might add that suggestions that perhaps BRS have got this right and all the others have it wrong show breathtaking arrogance
Bristol is an (up and coming) regional airport but IMHO it could manage without these silly warnings just like all the other airports do.
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Essential Aearodrome Information should be put on the ATIS to prevent ATC having to read it out each time to each aircraft (go look at the MATS Part 1 on the CAA website if you want to check)
The Muir Matheson system in use at Bristol is also in use at most regional airports in the UK and would have similar functionality, whether the local ATC use these features is of course up to them (and the extent of weather conditions affecting the particular airport concerned) but you can be assured that it would be SRG approved and certified with the relevant safety cases considered and inclusion of Met warnings on the ATIS would be on the specific direction of the Met Office.
Furthermore, Bristol Airport does not have a Met Office, the nearest being in Cardiff (in the city not the airport) who use the METARs provided by observers at Bristol and other information to formulate forecasts and warnings. Therefore Bristol cannot be responsible for the specifics of the warnings, they are simply passing on potentially useful information as they are required to do. If you want clarification of any weather conditions present or forecast then the weather centre is only a phonecall away.
The ATIS message is still structured and concise even with warnings appended, if you're not interested then don't listen but please do lay off ATC for doing their job as directed.
The Muir Matheson system in use at Bristol is also in use at most regional airports in the UK and would have similar functionality, whether the local ATC use these features is of course up to them (and the extent of weather conditions affecting the particular airport concerned) but you can be assured that it would be SRG approved and certified with the relevant safety cases considered and inclusion of Met warnings on the ATIS would be on the specific direction of the Met Office.
Furthermore, Bristol Airport does not have a Met Office, the nearest being in Cardiff (in the city not the airport) who use the METARs provided by observers at Bristol and other information to formulate forecasts and warnings. Therefore Bristol cannot be responsible for the specifics of the warnings, they are simply passing on potentially useful information as they are required to do. If you want clarification of any weather conditions present or forecast then the weather centre is only a phonecall away.
The ATIS message is still structured and concise even with warnings appended, if you're not interested then don't listen but please do lay off ATC for doing their job as directed.
Forewarned is Forearmed
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I guess Sector Who, gave a clue to the answer of your question in paragraph 3 of his post.
With regard to "other airports don't & its not a problem repeat NOT a problem" in your earlier post it appears there was at least one case, which to the CAA to issue a Notice to Aerodrome Licence Holders.
The full datails are to be found at www.caasrg.co.uk then Search for notal 1/98
With regard to "other airports don't & its not a problem repeat NOT a problem" in your earlier post it appears there was at least one case, which to the CAA to issue a Notice to Aerodrome Licence Holders.
The full datails are to be found at www.caasrg.co.uk then Search for notal 1/98
StandupfortheUlstermen
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So tell me brain fade , why would weather warnings, which are specific to one airport, find themselves being broadcast on another airport's ATIS?
Sun over tha yard arm was it, too many rations of grog before we posted, perhaps?
Sun over tha yard arm was it, too many rations of grog before we posted, perhaps?
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Standard
I see my Brizzol has some way to go before it catches up with yours. I like the very nautical theme to your last.
I've re read Sector twos post more closely and agree that it does appear, to the casual observer, that either the sun or the grog got the better of me. Sadly it was neither but I respectfully refer you to my user name
However, at the considerable risk of doing this to death, I suggest that you make a late new years resolution to either
1. Persuade all other airports to adopt your 'warnings'
or
2. Chuck it.
Truth is, it just makes you all look silly.
If you need to give out a 'warning' and 'warning' is actually rather a strong word to use, it should be correct.
Putting the 'warnings' on te ATIS means they are frequently wrong.
Putting out 'warnings' of things which have stopped happening ( like fog). Which may not happen (like hail or TS) or that are bleeding obvious (pick one!) are daft!
If it needs a 'warning' then its serious. Get it right and pass it by voice, only when it's correct to do so. Crivvens, you find the time to come out with enough 'verbal' at BRS, a wee bit more wont tax you!
Gert lush my babber!
I see my Brizzol has some way to go before it catches up with yours. I like the very nautical theme to your last.
I've re read Sector twos post more closely and agree that it does appear, to the casual observer, that either the sun or the grog got the better of me. Sadly it was neither but I respectfully refer you to my user name
However, at the considerable risk of doing this to death, I suggest that you make a late new years resolution to either
1. Persuade all other airports to adopt your 'warnings'
or2. Chuck it.
Truth is, it just makes you all look silly.
If you need to give out a 'warning' and 'warning' is actually rather a strong word to use, it should be correct.
Putting the 'warnings' on te ATIS means they are frequently wrong.
Putting out 'warnings' of things which have stopped happening ( like fog). Which may not happen (like hail or TS) or that are bleeding obvious (pick one!) are daft!
If it needs a 'warning' then its serious. Get it right and pass it by voice, only when it's correct to do so. Crivvens, you find the time to come out with enough 'verbal' at BRS, a wee bit more wont tax you!
Gert lush my babber!
StandupfortheUlstermen
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mmmm, but all we put out is 'gale/thunderstorm/strong wind warning current'. Then if you want details, you need only ask. That way, it saves us using all our time giving warnings out on the r/t. Would you rather sit at A1 awaiting your clearance cos I'm giving all the inbounds the latest warnings? I'd prefer to keep the warnings on the ATIS and give you your airways more swiftly. That way, we get you into the wide blue yonder just that little bit quicker.
It was the pilot fraternity who requested that we switch to a GMC and TWR split because 133.85 was getting a bit too crowded on busy days. So it makes sense that we keep as many tx as poss off our frequency. Having the wx warnings on the ATIS helps us do that.
Look, I know my lovely rounded NI accent is just fabulous to listen to, but that doesn't mean I want to waste on weather warnings.
Right then, where's that bl00dy yard arm, I'm gasping!
It was the pilot fraternity who requested that we switch to a GMC and TWR split because 133.85 was getting a bit too crowded on busy days. So it makes sense that we keep as many tx as poss off our frequency. Having the wx warnings on the ATIS helps us do that.
Look, I know my lovely rounded NI accent is just fabulous to listen to, but that doesn't mean I want to waste on weather warnings.
Right then, where's that bl00dy yard arm, I'm gasping!
Last edited by Standard Noise; 19th Apr 2005 at 12:43.
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Standard
Hope you enjoyed yer grog my luvver
Shurely you've heard 'fog warning current', the other day it was 'hail warning current' there is also 'snow warning current' .........get my drift? I do/could go on.
Hope you enjoyed yer grog my luvver
Shurely you've heard 'fog warning current', the other day it was 'hail warning current' there is also 'snow warning current' .........get my drift? I do/could go on.
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Right Standard
I'm giving you the last word on this sucker, but mark my words, sooner or later you lot will 'drop' your silly warnings of your own accord, and when you do, assuming I'm still alive, I'll be issuing an ' I told you so'.
ya boo sucks
I'm giving you the last word on this sucker, but mark my words, sooner or later you lot will 'drop' your silly warnings of your own accord, and when you do, assuming I'm still alive, I'll be issuing an ' I told you so'.
ya boo sucks
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Ranger, your sentiments are undoubtedly well meant but I must re-iterate that an ATIS broadcast is done for one thing alone and that's to take the pressure off ATC R/T frequencies. I'm not saying that the broadcasts are used for other things, simply that they are done for one purpose and the information they contain should be suited to that purpose (and that purpose only).
And yes, I've read NOTAL 1/98 but I'm afraid it doesn't support your argument. I don't see any reference to an ATIS - all it says is that information should be disseminated.
And yes, I've read NOTAL 1/98 but I'm afraid it doesn't support your argument. I don't see any reference to an ATIS - all it says is that information should be disseminated.
Forewarned is Forearmed
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I am well aware of the reason for the existance of ATIS, which was not mentioned specifically in the NOTAL which you correctly pointed out but, in Paragaph 2 of the NOTAL states "The purpose of this NOTAL is to draw the atention of aerodrome Licensees to the need to ensure regular Meteorological observations are made during periods appropriate to the needs of public transport flights using the airport"
It then mentions in paragraph 4 "The authority strongly recommends that all aerodrome Licensees & providers of ATC services where appropriate review the proceedures for the provision & dissemination of meteorological observations at their aerodromes". which if I am not wrong could mean the use of ATIS, NOTAM, RT.
I mentioned the existance of this document to try & explain why these so called this & that warnings may arise at BRS, giving rise to the title of this thread in the begining "BRI warning this & that"
It then mentions in paragraph 4 "The authority strongly recommends that all aerodrome Licensees & providers of ATC services where appropriate review the proceedures for the provision & dissemination of meteorological observations at their aerodromes". which if I am not wrong could mean the use of ATIS, NOTAM, RT.
I mentioned the existance of this document to try & explain why these so called this & that warnings may arise at BRS, giving rise to the title of this thread in the begining "BRI warning this & that"
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Today it was 'Gale warning current' all bleeding day.
Did it get above 15 Kt?
Sorry Standard I really promise to shut up now, but i couldn't resist one last dig
I may as well point out that NO ONE has yet answered the original question of 'why only at BRS?'
Did it get above 15 Kt?
Sorry Standard I really promise to shut up now, but i couldn't resist one last dig
I may as well point out that NO ONE has yet answered the original question of 'why only at BRS?'