How stable is EFPS?
How stable is EFPS?
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I'm not sorry for me as I have to use it day in and day out. It does seem to me that whenever anybody asks about it they ask a negative question like "has it had any crashes/failures" rather than "is it a marvellously reliable piece of kit". Just strikes me that ammunition is being sought. Maybe thats just my natural suspicious mind and paranoia !!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Vlad,
I do not think GT3 is alluding to EFPS being a bad piece of kit - just voicing the same concerns that many at LL have about it. It's been covered in depth on other postings already, but the fact remains, we are not being provided with any contingency or back-up in the event of EFPS failure.
For any airfield, let alone EGLL, this should be a major concern for those who have to use the equipment. Safety is the name of the game, and contingency goes hand in hand with it.
Or at least it should!
I do not think GT3 is alluding to EFPS being a bad piece of kit - just voicing the same concerns that many at LL have about it. It's been covered in depth on other postings already, but the fact remains, we are not being provided with any contingency or back-up in the event of EFPS failure.
For any airfield, let alone EGLL, this should be a major concern for those who have to use the equipment. Safety is the name of the game, and contingency goes hand in hand with it.
Or at least it should!
Join Date: Aug 2000
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presumably LL anf KK will get the same contingency that we have. There is a wee laptop in the corner of the VCR which in the event of a catastrophic failure can be used to print strips onto this fangled new stuff called paper. Apparently the controller then has to arrange this so called "paper" to represent the traffic situation. If you ask me, it will never catch on.
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I thought that the main unwavering principle of EFPS was that it is the same for everybody, if they wont give you a simple contingency that is already built into the system then reject it. Point it out to point 7, I'm sure he'll fix it for you.....
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Unfortunately, P7 is subject to the same "regime" as we are. The "regime" makes (and breaks) the rules - none of us have any input - we're only told of their decisions. The two Unions are starting to make noises, but they're still falling on deaf ears.
As Gonzo said, we are informed that there is no EFPS contingency on offer for the new VCR, hence our concern. What with the Oct06 deadline getting ever nearer, time is most definitely running out if this issue is going to be properly addressed and sorted.
As Gonzo said, we are informed that there is no EFPS contingency on offer for the new VCR, hence our concern. What with the Oct06 deadline getting ever nearer, time is most definitely running out if this issue is going to be properly addressed and sorted.
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I don't understand..........we all get the same kit with the same spec, supposedly....any changes to our system have to be agreed by LL & KK for that reason. The laptop will probably be a nightmare if we ever have to use it in anger but at least it is there. Having no contingency is downright dangerous, you guys and gals need to start jumping up and down a lot. Find out why you can't have it.
Ridiculous.
I'm sure some of our shiny new destinations are safety related, perhaps our new lord and master would like to buy you a laptop !!
Ridiculous.
I'm sure some of our shiny new destinations are safety related, perhaps our new lord and master would like to buy you a laptop !!
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Join Date: Jul 1997
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NATS Safety Management system dictates that equipment is subjected to safety assessment and hazard analysis before being introduced in to service. This includes the provision of a 4 part Safety Case.
The Safety Case will determine what failure modes can happen, how critical the equipment is to the operation, and how failures are mitigated.
The people involved in bringing in the project will have access to this document and thus will know what things have to be put in place to provide contingency.
I find it hard to believe the rumour that nothing is allowed for or will be provided to meet the requirements for failure. These would be a fundamental issue in the Safety Case, since complete failure is usually the top of the list for things to be analysed for hazards. Has anyone posting actually seen it, or is it purely conjecture from the rumour mill that it has not been addressed ??
In my experience, a lot (although not all) of fears and opinions often arise because operational people tend not to know much about NATS' Safety Management system and the processes which it contains.
Why not ask someone on the project if you can see the document or be briefed on what anlysis has been done ?
The Safety Case will determine what failure modes can happen, how critical the equipment is to the operation, and how failures are mitigated.
The people involved in bringing in the project will have access to this document and thus will know what things have to be put in place to provide contingency.
I find it hard to believe the rumour that nothing is allowed for or will be provided to meet the requirements for failure. These would be a fundamental issue in the Safety Case, since complete failure is usually the top of the list for things to be analysed for hazards. Has anyone posting actually seen it, or is it purely conjecture from the rumour mill that it has not been addressed ??
In my experience, a lot (although not all) of fears and opinions often arise because operational people tend not to know much about NATS' Safety Management system and the processes which it contains.
Why not ask someone on the project if you can see the document or be briefed on what anlysis has been done ?
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In my experience a NATS safety case is written by, or for management to acheive one purpose- satisfy SRG.
They are normally only a box ticking exercise where in the absence of substantial evidence of reliability, figures are just made up (estimated by professionals!)
Safety is not delivered by documentation or a management exercise.
It comes from initial concepts, design, application and unbiased monitoring, all sadly lacking from EFPS
They are normally only a box ticking exercise where in the absence of substantial evidence of reliability, figures are just made up (estimated by professionals!)
Safety is not delivered by documentation or a management exercise.
It comes from initial concepts, design, application and unbiased monitoring, all sadly lacking from EFPS
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Box ticking or not, the document still has to detail what mitigations are in place to cover hazards. SRG get a copy and have the ability to follow up to make sure that what you say will be put in place actually is.
Saying that something will never happen in the systems lifetime isn't a mitigation because the event could happen as soon as the system goes live. Mind you, you maybe then have no more failures for the next 1000 years or so according to the probability figure
Don't you guys use operational controllers during the hazard analysis process anyway who could address things from an informed viewpoint ?? If not, why not suggest it to management as part of your unit Safety Management culture ?? It happens already at many places up and down the country and a lot of them ain't even Premier Band 5 units
Saying that something will never happen in the systems lifetime isn't a mitigation because the event could happen as soon as the system goes live. Mind you, you maybe then have no more failures for the next 1000 years or so according to the probability figure
Don't you guys use operational controllers during the hazard analysis process anyway who could address things from an informed viewpoint ?? If not, why not suggest it to management as part of your unit Safety Management culture ?? It happens already at many places up and down the country and a lot of them ain't even Premier Band 5 units
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because the event could happen as soon as the system goes live
'Aint that the truth! It is impossible to be tested with live data plugged in to NAS. The first time it's plugged in is when it will go live.