Swanwick Centre - The view from the Outside
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Swanwick Centre - The view from the Outside
Dear All,
Swanwick Centre has been up and running for over a month now, mostly succesfully, and I'd like to know how it's been for those of you outside the "South Coast Dome".
I'm seeking views from EVERYONE. Pilots, other ATSU's, Airline ops... the whole shebang.
Don't be shy... post your views here.
Thanks
BEX
<img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Swanwick Centre has been up and running for over a month now, mostly succesfully, and I'd like to know how it's been for those of you outside the "South Coast Dome".
I'm seeking views from EVERYONE. Pilots, other ATSU's, Airline ops... the whole shebang.
Don't be shy... post your views here.
Thanks
BEX
<img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 34
From: London,England
Bexil,
From the pilots of point of view of the only problem I have, and it's a biggy, is dreadfull radio quality. I have post on this forum about it before, and it does not seem to effect all the controllers.
However the fact is that, in my opinion, London ATC now has the worst transmission quality of . .anyone in Europe. We have all been putting up with it but in busy sectors with loads of other aircraft on the same freq. as a quiet, fuzzy sounding controller it is verging on the unsafe.
Your tech. guys need to get it sorted. We have a brand new, state of art centre that had cost millions and the radio don't work properly, quite honestly it's pathetic.
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: Max Angle ]</p>
From the pilots of point of view of the only problem I have, and it's a biggy, is dreadfull radio quality. I have post on this forum about it before, and it does not seem to effect all the controllers.
However the fact is that, in my opinion, London ATC now has the worst transmission quality of . .anyone in Europe. We have all been putting up with it but in busy sectors with loads of other aircraft on the same freq. as a quiet, fuzzy sounding controller it is verging on the unsafe.
Your tech. guys need to get it sorted. We have a brand new, state of art centre that had cost millions and the radio don't work properly, quite honestly it's pathetic.
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: Max Angle ]</p>
Thread Starter
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
MAX ANGLE,
Fair Comment, thanks for that. I've been told that fixes are in hand for the RTF.
Part of the problem has been the diabolically poor headsets that have be issued for NERC use. Not sure what exactly is being done about them though.
Rgds Bex
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: BEXIL ]</p>
Fair Comment, thanks for that. I've been told that fixes are in hand for the RTF.
Part of the problem has been the diabolically poor headsets that have be issued for NERC use. Not sure what exactly is being done about them though.
Rgds Bex
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: BEXIL ]</p>
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: UK
BEXIL,
We were initially crusified with the extra fuel requirements on the reroute scenarios published by CFMU. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
We're still getting hammered on the North Sea and Hurn regs in particular. ( any update on these ? ) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
UK domestics also took a battering. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
Having said that, overall it wasn't as bad as we were expecting. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
But PLEASE change that naff music when you're in the queue to speak to Lon FMP !!!!
When can we expect a significant increase in flow rates ? ( or will the summer scheds due Mar 31st cancel that out ?? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> )
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]</p>
We were initially crusified with the extra fuel requirements on the reroute scenarios published by CFMU. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
We're still getting hammered on the North Sea and Hurn regs in particular. ( any update on these ? ) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
UK domestics also took a battering. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
Having said that, overall it wasn't as bad as we were expecting. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
But PLEASE change that naff music when you're in the queue to speak to Lon FMP !!!!
When can we expect a significant increase in flow rates ? ( or will the summer scheds due Mar 31st cancel that out ?? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> )
[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]</p>
Thread Starter
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Yes, flow control was always going to be an issue, and I'm very glad it hasn't been as bad as it might have been.
It has however been somewhat worse than the rather disingenuous "only for 10 days" promised by NATS. Remember that it was here on PPRuNe, that the truth was first told... as I recall 60 days was mentioned. Who do you trust now?
As for getting the sectors up to capacity, yes it's going to happen. Probably by the end of the month, assuming no serious failures of kit, the RT is "fixed", and staff feel confident.
Now, having the sectors up to capacity doesn't actually mean that we will be able to open them. There are concerns that there are not enough Controllers and Assistants to "split" all the sectors required in the summer. We are already having some problems (see Todays CFMU page) and not many people are on leave at this time of year. Come the summer....?
Staffing is an issue. I don't have all the facts, but perhaps someone who does can enlighten us all?
Sorry about the "Musak". I've never actually heard it myself, any suggestions for a replacement? "Hanging on the Telephone" perhaps, by Blondie (1979ish?.... yes, I had THAT poster as well). .
Rgds BEX
It has however been somewhat worse than the rather disingenuous "only for 10 days" promised by NATS. Remember that it was here on PPRuNe, that the truth was first told... as I recall 60 days was mentioned. Who do you trust now?
As for getting the sectors up to capacity, yes it's going to happen. Probably by the end of the month, assuming no serious failures of kit, the RT is "fixed", and staff feel confident.
Now, having the sectors up to capacity doesn't actually mean that we will be able to open them. There are concerns that there are not enough Controllers and Assistants to "split" all the sectors required in the summer. We are already having some problems (see Todays CFMU page) and not many people are on leave at this time of year. Come the summer....?
Staffing is an issue. I don't have all the facts, but perhaps someone who does can enlighten us all?
Sorry about the "Musak". I've never actually heard it myself, any suggestions for a replacement? "Hanging on the Telephone" perhaps, by Blondie (1979ish?.... yes, I had THAT poster as well). .
Rgds BEX
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: In the sun
From the point of view of some other units it has been a pain in the ****. Even units as far away as Gander and New York are being hit by routing restrictions as NERC restrictions are dictating where North Atlantic Tracks can go, and there is no sign of an end in sight. There are even rumours that some of the NAT route restrictions may go on indefinately. NERC has only been a success(ish) because other units have been protecting it.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Hants, UK
Bex: I must just correct you on one point: North Sea will NEVER get up to its published capacity of 62ish per hour because we will not in the foreseeable future have enough staff to open Sectors 33 and 11 together. Therefore we are limited to the combined capacity of 33ish per hour. Nobody seems to have woken up to this yet.
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Toronto
North Sea does seem to be the major bottleneck at the moment. The delays there have produced some interesting reroutes. I've seen the SAS out of Brum for Copenhagen come north as Manchester's heads off south toward Clacton! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . .. .What's the score with (sorry don't know its new title <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) Daventry South? Will Manchester's southbound departures be MDI'd at 1/4 in the 0710-0810 period long-term, or is there a solution in the offing?
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Thanks to all. The restrictions do seem to be the worst thing for many people outside of NERC, and yes, they have gone on (and will continue to go on) for a lot more than the 10 days you were promised. Sorry, but please remember those promises were not made by the operational ATCOs and ATSAs who are doing their darndest to get are many a/c thru the system as is safely possible.. .. .I was wondering how people are finding trying to co-ordinate with LACC Swanwick? The system is fairly inflexible, and true experience with it can be measured in terms of 30 days, not the 30 years worth built up at LATCC.. .. .Rgds BEX.
Joined: Nov 1998
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From: Manchester UK
In view of the time taken to get the thing operational, I for one was actually quite surprised how well things have gone. Yes the restrictions are awful and the RT is far worse than anywhere in Europe, and almost as bad as Dakar Control. But the upshot of my post is that it is probably purely down to the professionalism of the controllers at the sharp end that it works at all, and things MUST improve otherwise we shall become the 3rd world ATC system of Europe.
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From: Anywhere
Sector 5 slot times - unheard of in the days of West Drayton for domestic flights but happening now. How long before before we'll be back to normal here?. .. .(No skin off my nose - I just end up taking 'em off airways <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" /> ) . .. .CM
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From: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
In the mirror today,. .. .<a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11697228&method=full&siteid=50143" target="_blank">http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11697228&method=full&siteid=50143</a>. .. .They could have given PPrune a byline as well!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Not bad considering it is indeed a strait "lift" from this thread. Can I add my own headline?. .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Mirror Journalist writes almost sensibly about aviation. . .. .Last night there was uproar as a Daily Mirror hack wrote something about the aviation industry without using the time honoured phrases of the press.. .. .A sub editor immediately apologised for the error and was quoted as saying "the jounalist in question has been under a lot of pressure and failed to use the normal hysterical sources.". .. .In this instance he appears to have gone to source that was far too credible for the high standards expected of this newspaper. I can assure Mirror readers that it will not happen again and they can look forward to their favourite flying stories. They will always include "pilot steers stricken jet away from school", "holiday jet plummets to emergency landing", "I thought I was going to die", "jets (over London) miss by seconds", and our favourite "Fly girl stuck in Copenhagen, husband chained to bed in Hounslow...." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Seriously, though.... .. .The RT is being fixed. The Headsets Are being modified and will eventually be replaced. And the flow rates are for all but one sector (DTY) at 90% of the LATCC target sector flows. . .. .Rgds BEX <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 13 March 2002, 20:33: Message edited by: BEXIL ]</small>
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
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Does this mean we all get royalties for stuff we post on PPRuNe that gets ummmm "quoted"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .How bout it Danny? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
