Paying for ATC selection preparation.

[ILS 119.5]

OK maybe not finshed yet as such a good debate.
Have you seen the books on aptitude testing? There are a few.
If so many pass the aptitude tests then why do they fail? Surely if the aptitude testing is that good then students would not fail.
To go back to my original thread, the so called training is not to guarantee any pass at all. But to give prospective candidates a far greater knowledge of ATC than the suggested reading. Therefore this knowledge should give the candidate an advantage over someone else who has only read the minimum required.
I would personally employ a person who has gone further, (using whichever method), to obtain the knowledge required to get a job. It shows determination to succeed.
Many years ago a company called "Aviation Foundation Training" was formed, working out of the old Bournemouth Airports Directors House. This was run by a CAA assistant. The company had a better success rate than the college. The only reason was that people were paying for it and there was more attention payed to the students.

[Mr Chips]

ILS you asked how a professional experienced interviewer would spot a coached candidate. Easily, I have done it myself. Can I explain how? No, not really, I guess that if you are good at what you do, you can spot them... I guess you could call it aptitude!

You have not answered at least one of the questions posed here... how could anyone charge for a visit to a NATS unit?

Also - how much would this service cost? What are your (or your "friends") qualifications? Can you guarantee success? Can you measure added value?

I shall await your answers with interest

[Jerricho]

I would personally employ a person who has gone further, (using whichever method), to obtain the knowledge required to get a job. It shows determination to succeed

And if I had 2 candidates under consideration, and I knew one had gone out and researched their preparation themselves and the other had simply paid someone............I know which one I would employ.

If so many pass the aptitude tests then why do they fail? Surely if the aptitude testing is that good then students would not fail.

Come off it. That is just grasping at straws. There are so many variables in the training process from day one right up to validation day, it is a foolish question indeed. And infact, one could even point you statement at what you propose. Your little business may get people through the application process and a seat in the college...............hmmmm.


You're beginning to talk in circles here. It's been established on several occasions that up till now applicants have prepared themselves. From some of the PMs and emails I personally have recieved, these people are already highly motivated and not just doing the bare minimum. Even reading through some of the threads that appear here, they have a desire to achieve their aspiration of attaining a training slot. You have admitted viewing your whole enterprise as a business you want to make a quick buck from. You keep waving this "higher quality" applicant flag. That is an insult to anybody who had already gone through the process off their own back and achieved what they set their sights on......themselves.

[Fidgell]

Yeah looks like ILSs first idea of fininshing with this thread was a better venture than this one.....

The course at Bournemouth IS difficult, the dropout rate reflects this. Make no bones about it, you will not succeed without hard graft.... but it is worth it and those with the aptitude will get there. After all it is not a job to do if you cannot do it!!!

However, maybe there is a certificate one can buy to disprove this!

[Gonzo]

To go back to my original thread, the so called training is not to guarantee any pass at all. But to give prospective candidates a far greater knowledge of ATC than the suggested reading. Therefore this knowledge should give the candidate an advantage over someone else who has only read the minimum required.

The interviews are designed to test aptitude, not knowledge.

I would personally employ a person who has gone further, (using whichever method), to obtain the knowledge required to get a job. It shows determination to succeed.

Personally, I would employ someone who demonstrated a calm temperament under pressure, showed an ability to think laterally to solve problems and was able to multitask, regardless of their level of knowledge of ATC or determination to succeed.

If those skills and abilities were missing, but the candidate had an encylopaedic knowledge of ATC, I'd show him or her the door.

[Jerricho]

Thought I would bring this back to the top just as I'm wondering if anyone out there at the moment has seen/used/thoughts

(I'm not trying to get the debate going again as I think we pretty much covered that)

[ILS 119.5]

Well believe it or not my colleague is already helping future students with advice, guidance and atc tuition. I cannot divulge any of the costings as I do not know but I'm sure these people will have a better chance of passing the technical interview than others. I agree with many of you in the fact that most things can be researched but how do you know what to research if you don't know the business. Also please bear in mind that this is not "some bloke" giving the information. He is a fully qualified ATCO with 20 years experience.

[ILS 119.5]

Sorry forgot to add, if you buy a book on ATC then the Author makes money, why buy a book when you can get up to date information from a professional person. The CAA reccommends reading these books which provide outdated info.

[Jerricho]

I'm not trying to get the debate going again as I think we pretty much covered that

[ILS 119.5]

so why mention it then

[Jerricho]

Go and read what I posted again.

I was asking if anybody out there had seen or used the "uh-hum" service and their thoughts on it.

[ILS 119.5]

Doesn't matter people are paying for advice and instruction. If you want to sit and pontificate from Canada then that is up to you. If you want to slag people off for trying to build a business then that is up to you. Regardless of what your inexperienced brain says my colleague will earn and make a good business.
If you work in Canada then concern yourself with what goes on in your country not in the UK. You have made the decision to leave the UK so go and do not interfere with UK matters.

[Jerricho]

Wow. Mr Parinoid. At what point since I brought this back to the top have I "pontificated" or slagged anyone? It was a genuine question asking for genuine input. As there have been 6 months passed, and we've quite a few people who have come on the forums asking questions about getting in, I was curious had anybody found it beneficial or otherwise. As to this point there are no replies other than your little bleat, I'm taking it that nobody that comes on here has.

Me thinks you're protesting a little too loud. You're just rehashing your crap from earlier and resorting to childish little insults. The only person who deserves slagging is you for making an ass of yourself.

[ILS 119.5]

"parinoid" is spelt "paranoid. Education helps you spell, knowledge helps you teach. This is not a touchy subject for myself but trying to aid a friend starting a business. If it is not for you then farewell. If you do not have the brain to run a business then OK. Please keep up the slagging off for my colleague but it will not work. Success is determined by desire and he has the desire. If Canada is such a great place to work then why are we not all there? I went through the college in the early 80's and then went back to instruct for a short while. I may have even taught you. My experience is second to none, my views are my own.

[Fidgell]

ILS, Jerricho has NOT slagged anyone off, the only unprofessional comments on this thread come from your own direction. If nobody else has your amazing business brain then I bow down before your superiority..... now I ask a question,

Would anyone pay somebody like this to impair their "superior knowledge" you may rely on for the once in a lifetime opportunity to attain the career of your dreams?

PM me potential candidates and I shall impart my "inferior" knowledge and "lack of business brain" for free. After all what do I know Im only an ATCO (and occasionally involved in ACTUALLY conducting interviews).

Some people are willing to help you, others just want to help themselves. No wonder Jerricho left!!!

[Jerricho]

ILS, you will have to excuse my spelling. Although, if that's the only premise you have to launch yet another silly little attack, then you're just making a bigger ass of yourself.

(BTW what is this bug up your ass about Canada? Where have I mentioned this AT ALL in this thread.)

You obviously have your view, and seeing as you seem to be referring to previous posting, so do others as has been discussed, hence ONCE AGAIN I draw attention to the fact that I was asking for input without reference to earlier debate.........why don't you listen (with all that experience). Please stop defiling this thread any longer until you have actually read and understood the question.

(I don't think you were one of my instructors in the college. They were all far to intelligent to be coming out with the garbage you are)

[ILS 119.5]

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread. As you all know I agree with paying for ATC preparation. It is not up to us to decide who wants to pay or not to pay for it. If someone wants to pay then that is up to them. If someone wants to do their own research then that is up to them. I would not be able to tell if any candidate had been privately trained or done their own research. Good luck to all that apply. Oh and by the way I would not employ people who cannot spell, it is a sign of bad education.

[Fidgell]

Id employ someone more professional and with nicer manners.....

[nginear]

I agree with ILS, what is wrong with his mate giving professional advice and tuition and getting paid for it. The problem with the aviation profession at the moment is that it is a lowly profession. We as professionals should make it as good as it was rather than undermining it.

[Jerricho]

From page one (Quote form VectorLine)

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