recording devices
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: MRats
recording devices
Quote: "........that air traffic control units be equipped with devices that record background communications and noise at ATC work stations......."
This is a recommendation. Any comments would be appreciated
This is a recommendation. Any comments would be appreciated
More than just an ATCO
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 1
From: Up someone's nose
Was mooted at Maastricht many years ago. It was seen as an invasion of privacy then; probably still on management agenda, but I understand they have enough other problems at the moment
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
From: On a Ship Near You
In Oz we are protected from these 'background' recordings in the same way that applies to pilot cockpit recordings.
It's not done here yet; but if it is done the legislation that protects pilots from punitive or discipline as a result of what gets recorded applies. That is anyone who uses it is breaking the law, I know that doesn't mean people who get access don't have long memories...
But I'm not sure that only operationally specific information would end up in a published transcript; as is supposed to happen with black box recordings.
It's not done here yet; but if it is done the legislation that protects pilots from punitive or discipline as a result of what gets recorded applies. That is anyone who uses it is breaking the law, I know that doesn't mean people who get access don't have long memories...
But I'm not sure that only operationally specific information would end up in a published transcript; as is supposed to happen with black box recordings.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
From: EGTT/FAB/LGW/BOH/FAB/LGW
I know of one NATS unit that used to have a recorded 'live' microphone in the tower at all times, made for some interesting listening after incident that made the papers!!
p.s. It was removed soon after it became known to the staff that it was there.
p.s. It was removed soon after it became known to the staff that it was there.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
From: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
SH...
Surely no-one would be that unprofessional.....would they..?
As an aside..... don't forget that when you press most direct lines the recording starts even though the other end have not answered.... and most mics can pick up neighbouring conversations!!!
Comments such as "answer the f***ing phone" make interesting transcripts!
Surely no-one would be that unprofessional.....would they..?
As an aside..... don't forget that when you press most direct lines the recording starts even though the other end have not answered.... and most mics can pick up neighbouring conversations!!!
Comments such as "answer the f***ing phone" make interesting transcripts!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
From: California USA
I'm not coming out as an advocate of general recording, but I have to say that there have been times over the last 25 years when I've thought it would be a good idea. Coordination is not always done over a recorded line, and when within earshot, controllers sometimes (often? always?) approve things "in person" which obviously SHOULD be done over a recorded line (am I dancing around the edge of this deftly enough?). So, for instance, I point out a guy to the controller next to me (by literally pointing at the target on his display and talking to him without benefit of electronics) and he approves it. When it goes to hell, the other controller denies ever having approved the point-out. This is but one example. I think it's safe to say that we ALL know that lots of stuff gets done without leaving a trail. Trying to reconstruct what actually happened in any given situation can only benefit from a better trail.
Now, before you kick me in the head over this, know that I'm equally sensitive about recording everything all the time. I'm just expressing what I believe is a reasonable argument from the "pro" side. How to balance these needs is the question.
Now, before you kick me in the head over this, know that I'm equally sensitive about recording everything all the time. I'm just expressing what I believe is a reasonable argument from the "pro" side. How to balance these needs is the question.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: wherever I lay my hat...
Systems like these have been in use in at least one Middle Eastern unit for some time and are particularly useful in incident investigations.
They do require a great deal of responsible management in their use, but from my experience they have more often baled out an ATCO as described by AV8 than any other outcome.
I have to confess to once repeating something on the recordings outside a professional forum..... however it was a particularly good joke involving a petshop, a bunny rabbit and a python!!
They do require a great deal of responsible management in their use, but from my experience they have more often baled out an ATCO as described by AV8 than any other outcome.
I have to confess to once repeating something on the recordings outside a professional forum..... however it was a particularly good joke involving a petshop, a bunny rabbit and a python!!
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Stinkin' Harbor
In the centre in Hong Kong, where the union doesn't have the power or the will to pull the skin off a rice pudding, all the mikes are live all the time.
Conversation between controllers is carried out in furtive whispers with ones hand over the mike.
More than one (expat) controller has faced "rubber hosing" as a result of a careless comment (about management) made during a quiet period without the appropriate safeguards.
Conversation between controllers is carried out in furtive whispers with ones hand over the mike.
More than one (expat) controller has faced "rubber hosing" as a result of a careless comment (about management) made during a quiet period without the appropriate safeguards.
