OJTI Whingers
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OJTI Whingers
In response to the recent post about us T&D whingers.
All of the OJTI atcos who are considering a training ban seem to be also whinging about the same thing as us T&Ders. That is money.
The net result of being an OTJT is not meant to be the extra pay, but to help contribute to the increased number of valid ATCOs (no matter how poorly paid in relation to yourselves) at your unit. When you train an ATCO up to vaildation standard this will mean far more than just increased pay for yourself. It will mean in the short term, more oppurtunity for breaks and reduced time per session, more annual leave as there are more valid atcos to cover absence, and eventually your retirement as there are people there to replace you.
As you slate T&D Valid ATCOs for wanting pay equality you are also wanting more money for training people. So if you feel so put out by not being rewarded financially why dont you just give up your OJTI ticket?
Oh yes but i forgot that would mean less money for you!
All of the OJTI atcos who are considering a training ban seem to be also whinging about the same thing as us T&Ders. That is money.
The net result of being an OTJT is not meant to be the extra pay, but to help contribute to the increased number of valid ATCOs (no matter how poorly paid in relation to yourselves) at your unit. When you train an ATCO up to vaildation standard this will mean far more than just increased pay for yourself. It will mean in the short term, more oppurtunity for breaks and reduced time per session, more annual leave as there are more valid atcos to cover absence, and eventually your retirement as there are people there to replace you.
As you slate T&D Valid ATCOs for wanting pay equality you are also wanting more money for training people. So if you feel so put out by not being rewarded financially why dont you just give up your OJTI ticket?
Oh yes but i forgot that would mean less money for you!
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By all means I am happy to discuss this issue with MY mentors, however they seem to support the T&D claim.
Let me point something out, there is one thing in common with both our posts on whinging - BOTH GROUPS WANT AN END RESULT OF MORE MONEY!
Let me quote a recent union newsletter "A Union is a group of people working towards a common goal"
So why are you not supporting T&Ders where as I am pretty sure that all trainees and recently valid ATCOs would support a cliam for more pay scale points for OJTIs.
Let me point something out, there is one thing in common with both our posts on whinging - BOTH GROUPS WANT AN END RESULT OF MORE MONEY!
Let me quote a recent union newsletter "A Union is a group of people working towards a common goal"
So why are you not supporting T&Ders where as I am pretty sure that all trainees and recently valid ATCOs would support a cliam for more pay scale points for OJTIs.
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C2L27L
Where did I say that I did support the T&D'ers.
Actions should speak louder than words!
And Evil, actually it isn't at all strange that there wasn't a ballot for industrial action.
Call me old fashioned, but there isn't much point when the people who are represented vote to accept the deal. It is called democracy, you know something people actually participate in, rather than whingeing about it all the time.
Where did I say that I did support the T&D'ers.
Actions should speak louder than words!
And Evil, actually it isn't at all strange that there wasn't a ballot for industrial action.
Call me old fashioned, but there isn't much point when the people who are represented vote to accept the deal. It is called democracy, you know something people actually participate in, rather than whingeing about it all the time.
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Nicely put Harry,
or was that Harriet,
C2L27L,
I think ya'll find that your mentors want ya to validate for more reasons than one.
Yes, they want to be able to take leave when they want to, as will you, and not have to work right up to regulated hours and beyond.
I think you will also find that most of 'your' mentors will actually take pride in the fact that YOU reached validation. Honestly how much help was the stuff ya did at college with respect to what ya doing now?
Can't we all leave money out of this?
Chatters
or was that Harriet,
C2L27L,
I think ya'll find that your mentors want ya to validate for more reasons than one.
Yes, they want to be able to take leave when they want to, as will you, and not have to work right up to regulated hours and beyond.
I think you will also find that most of 'your' mentors will actually take pride in the fact that YOU reached validation. Honestly how much help was the stuff ya did at college with respect to what ya doing now?
Can't we all leave money out of this?
Chatters
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Cleared2land27left
Please remember that until very very recently top of the scale ATCO's did not recieve any payment for their duties. So there was no incentive for them to continue to put their licence at risk to train people. At least that has changed with the new pay deal.
Remember at some units when someone validates it doesn't necessarily mean that you get an increase in numbers, it usually only releases someone who has been waiting to be posted out for the past few years.
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To infinity and beyond
Please remember that until very very recently top of the scale ATCO's did not recieve any payment for their duties. So there was no incentive for them to continue to put their licence at risk to train people. At least that has changed with the new pay deal.
Remember at some units when someone validates it doesn't necessarily mean that you get an increase in numbers, it usually only releases someone who has been waiting to be posted out for the past few years.
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To infinity and beyond
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Chatter - Yes I am sure my mentors want me to validate for many reasons, the main one being my validation representing their continued hard efforts throughout my training. I may have brought money into this part of the debate, but simply to outline the issue of one set of people being against the T&Ders and criticising them for wanting to be on the ATCO2 Pay scale.
Buzz - I am aware that people at the top of the scale did not get any extra payment and I think that is very unfair. The extra stress, effort and risks that come with the OJTI ticket are worth a great deal of money.
I totally accept that OJTIs should be more rewarded for their efforts, AND I AM IN NO WAY AGAINST THEIR CLAIM FOR MORE PAYMENT TO OJTIS. The point of my thread above was in response to the people on the T&D scale being labeled as whingers. The arguement is not "just" about the money as some people are led to believe.
Buzz - I am aware that people at the top of the scale did not get any extra payment and I think that is very unfair. The extra stress, effort and risks that come with the OJTI ticket are worth a great deal of money.
I totally accept that OJTIs should be more rewarded for their efforts, AND I AM IN NO WAY AGAINST THEIR CLAIM FOR MORE PAYMENT TO OJTIS. The point of my thread above was in response to the people on the T&D scale being labeled as whingers. The arguement is not "just" about the money as some people are led to believe.
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It isn't necessarily about the cash - but it is nice to get some extra reward when you train and train only to have the effects of your good work pulled out from under your feet when the recently valids resign 'cos they're already sick of the place after a couple of years or else others are posted out when they are still very much needed and are released for reasons I can't even start to comprehend 
.
Buzz - you wouldn't have a vested interest in training so you can be posted would you??
.Buzz - you wouldn't have a vested interest in training so you can be posted would you??
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As a 'non state' ATCO and a OJTI I have been reading all the latest posts ref NATS pay awards / OJTI pay and T&D scales with interest.... some of you really need to get into the real world, and with PPP just round the corner you may just find yourselves there sooner than you think!!!!
If nothing else it will make some of your future posts even more WHINGING!
Welcome to the private sector... underpaid, overworked, management??? yerrrrright!!!
But at least we actually want to do this job and enjoy it.
Anyone want a job??? I'm recruiting!
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Hand over watch...and run away
If nothing else it will make some of your future posts even more WHINGING!
Welcome to the private sector... underpaid, overworked, management??? yerrrrright!!!
But at least we actually want to do this job and enjoy it.
Anyone want a job??? I'm recruiting!
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Hand over watch...and run away
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U R NumberOne
No I most certainly do not want to be posted out.
I'll give you a clue. It took me long enough to get to the unit I am, or should I say we are at in the first place!
I get as p****d of as you about people who will quite happily sign a mobile contract, get thousands of pounds worth of unbonded, no cost training and then when they get their ratings validated, bog off to be nearer to mummy.Our remote location and shift pattern don't help those who live long distances away from their nearest and dearest but, they signed on the dotted line.
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To infinity and beyond
No I most certainly do not want to be posted out.
I'll give you a clue. It took me long enough to get to the unit I am, or should I say we are at in the first place!
I get as p****d of as you about people who will quite happily sign a mobile contract, get thousands of pounds worth of unbonded, no cost training and then when they get their ratings validated, bog off to be nearer to mummy.Our remote location and shift pattern don't help those who live long distances away from their nearest and dearest but, they signed on the dotted line.
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To infinity and beyond
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We deserve the money because all you trainees are working on our licences in case you hadn't noticed so in effect in training you ,you could say we are putting our licences on the line!!! Thats what the extra money is for, and yes personally I take a great deal of pride in one of my trainees reaching validation standard.
)
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WF
The things we do for an App and Radar course - it was either that or take to the streets
(Roll on January and Bailbrook - then please god SEND ME SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!)
But at least the visits from Girl Flyday keep me sane
[This message has been edited by Chilli Monster (edited 28 November 2000).]
The things we do for an App and Radar course - it was either that or take to the streets
(Roll on January and Bailbrook - then please god SEND ME SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!)But at least the visits from Girl Flyday keep me sane
[This message has been edited by Chilli Monster (edited 28 November 2000).]
