En-Route Airway Handover R/T
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En-Route Airway Handover R/T
Other threads have discussed a similar topic before, but my question to ATC is:
What is the minimum r/t you require for check-in to an en-route controller?
I think I already understand requirements for departure, arrival etc because they are nicely covered in CAP413 in the UK. But en-route handovers are not covered.
I fly in Europe, and use ATC callsign, A/c callsign, assigned level, next waypoint (or assigned heading). A colleague recently suggested that the next waypoint is not required.
I am expecting at least three different answers here (UK, USA, ICAO ...). Any references would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
What is the minimum r/t you require for check-in to an en-route controller?
I think I already understand requirements for departure, arrival etc because they are nicely covered in CAP413 in the UK. But en-route handovers are not covered.
I fly in Europe, and use ATC callsign, A/c callsign, assigned level, next waypoint (or assigned heading). A colleague recently suggested that the next waypoint is not required.
I am expecting at least three different answers here (UK, USA, ICAO ...). Any references would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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United States
In the us, the Aeronautical Information Manual gives the following phraseologies:
2. The following phraseology should be utilized by pilots for establishing contact with the designated facility:
(a) When operating in a radar environment: On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's assigned altitude preceded by the words "level," or "climbing to," or "descending to," as appropriate; and the aircraft's present vacating altitude, if applicable.
EXAMPLE-
1. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEVEL (altitude or flight level).
2. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEAVING (exact altitude or flight level), CLIMBING TO OR DESCENDING TO (altitude of flight level).
NOTE-
Exact altitude or flight level means to the nearest
100 foot increment. Exact altitude or flight level reports on initial contact provide ATC with information required prior to using Mode C altitude information for separation purposes.
(b) When operating in a nonradar environment:
(1) On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's present position, altitude and time estimate for the next reporting point.
EXAMPLE-
(Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), (position), (altitude), ESTIMATING (reporting point) AT (time).
(2) After initial contact, when a position report will be made, the pilot should give the controller a complete position report.
EXAMPLE-
(Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), (position), (time), (altitude), (type of flight plan), (ETA and name of next reporting point), (the name of the next succeeding reporting point), AND (remarks).
REFERENCE-
AIM, Position Reporting, Paragraph 5-3-2.
ATC CHAT 24/7
2. The following phraseology should be utilized by pilots for establishing contact with the designated facility:
(a) When operating in a radar environment: On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's assigned altitude preceded by the words "level," or "climbing to," or "descending to," as appropriate; and the aircraft's present vacating altitude, if applicable.
EXAMPLE-
1. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEVEL (altitude or flight level).
2. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEAVING (exact altitude or flight level), CLIMBING TO OR DESCENDING TO (altitude of flight level).
NOTE-
Exact altitude or flight level means to the nearest
100 foot increment. Exact altitude or flight level reports on initial contact provide ATC with information required prior to using Mode C altitude information for separation purposes.
(b) When operating in a nonradar environment:
(1) On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's present position, altitude and time estimate for the next reporting point.
EXAMPLE-
(Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), (position), (altitude), ESTIMATING (reporting point) AT (time).
(2) After initial contact, when a position report will be made, the pilot should give the controller a complete position report.
EXAMPLE-
(Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), (position), (time), (altitude), (type of flight plan), (ETA and name of next reporting point), (the name of the next succeeding reporting point), AND (remarks).
REFERENCE-
AIM, Position Reporting, Paragraph 5-3-2.
ATC CHAT 24/7
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and in europe / ICAO?
Thanks for the US version atcea. The europeans only do a mode C check with the first radar controller and it is assumed to be correct thereafter.
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On initial contact for Maastrricht UAC it is, "Aircraft c/s, FLnnn climbing/descending to FLNNN, requested FLzzz , or, maintaining FLNNN, squawk ZZZZ, heading HHH (if assigned)
For subsequent sectors the Transponder code is not required.
For subsequent sectors the Transponder code is not required.
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In Switzerland the only thing we expect a pilot to say is the actual and cleared level plus anything assigned by previous center (heading, speed etc) - Plus the callsign of course. Usually the controller will send you over to the next frequency with a 'report mach number to.....' (for example).
The waypoint you're flying to is not required. If it's not a standard point for the transfer it should have been coordinated....hence no need to mention it. And in case of doubt I can always ask 'which point are you flying to?' (is that ICAO-praseology??? getting some doubts
).
The waypoint you're flying to is not required. If it's not a standard point for the transfer it should have been coordinated....hence no need to mention it. And in case of doubt I can always ask 'which point are you flying to?' (is that ICAO-praseology??? getting some doubts
).
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As a TMA controller we would like something along the lines of...
"London, Speedbird 123, cleared level (and any restrictions), heading assigned if any, speed assigned if any".
Hope that helps...
"London, Speedbird 123, cleared level (and any restrictions), heading assigned if any, speed assigned if any".
Hope that helps...
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Barry Cuda (or other ATC bods), is cleared level (plus restrictions, if any) the only level you need? I hear alot these days of ie "passing flight level 248 climbing level 320" which I always think is 'too much information' for want of a better explanation.
As Saint said, on a SID, Mode C is verified and as you guys hand over between agencies, integrity of radar return is maintained... am I right here? Thanks.
As Saint said, on a SID, Mode C is verified and as you guys hand over between agencies, integrity of radar return is maintained... am I right here? Thanks.
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Meeb, the only thing I need is the cleared FL, plus any restrictions, e.g. FL150 lvl abeam SABER, plus all the other speed and heading stuff...
You are right when you state that Mode C is verified on 1st contact, which is why we always ask for passing altitude if you guys don't tell us. It needs to be within 300 feet of our secondary radar return.
On first contact pilots are supposed to report callsign, passing and cleared altitude and SID designantor. It is becoming more prevalent for pilots to miss out the passing altitude, unless you are Eastern European when it appears that simply callsign will suffice!!!
You are right when you state that Mode C is verified on 1st contact, which is why we always ask for passing altitude if you guys don't tell us. It needs to be within 300 feet of our secondary radar return.
On first contact pilots are supposed to report callsign, passing and cleared altitude and SID designantor. It is becoming more prevalent for pilots to miss out the passing altitude, unless you are Eastern European when it appears that simply callsign will suffice!!!
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About actual level:
We are supposed to verify the mode C readout on every initial call. With an a/c in level flight it's easy. But somebody climbing/descending creates a problem with that: As the radar is quite 'behind the traffic' (in LSAG we still have an update rate of 5/min) the mode C can't be verified with somebody having a hight ROD/ROC. In this case I personally don't care if he tells the actual level and assume the mode C is correct....and will notice any wrong indications once he levels off.
Hence I only want to hear the cleared level and don't care about actual level. Quite a few pilots have problems telling me the cleared level. Usually, if they don't tell me I'll just say 'go ahead' until they tell me.......already had pilots who'd rather give me the phone numbers of their flight attendants than telling me the cleared level
We are supposed to verify the mode C readout on every initial call. With an a/c in level flight it's easy. But somebody climbing/descending creates a problem with that: As the radar is quite 'behind the traffic' (in LSAG we still have an update rate of 5/min) the mode C can't be verified with somebody having a hight ROD/ROC. In this case I personally don't care if he tells the actual level and assume the mode C is correct....and will notice any wrong indications once he levels off.
Hence I only want to hear the cleared level and don't care about actual level. Quite a few pilots have problems telling me the cleared level. Usually, if they don't tell me I'll just say 'go ahead' until they tell me.......already had pilots who'd rather give me the phone numbers of their flight attendants than telling me the cleared level
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ursgva, it's good to know that it's not just me they keep the info from!!!
Our radar updates every 6 seconds so that the picture is never too "out of date". Can't imagine controlling in the London TMA with a picture that doesn't change for 12 seconds... Its scary enough as it is...
Our radar updates every 6 seconds so that the picture is never too "out of date". Can't imagine controlling in the London TMA with a picture that doesn't change for 12 seconds... Its scary enough as it is...
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The flight level thing seems to have been cleared up, but it's still unclear as to whether mentioning the next waypoint is required. If on a heading, it's clear you do mention that but, must you mention the next point?? I always do, but have also have colleagues say it's not necesary - only to not mention it and then have the ATCO ask to which point we are going to. I can understand not mentioning it if one is on ones flightplan route but if going to a distant waypoint, skipping several of the flight plan waypoints, it would seem sensible to say where one is going to.
However, can anyone provide an ICAO/JAA reference that would categorically answer the question?
However, can anyone provide an ICAO/JAA reference that would categorically answer the question?
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From a London En-route perspective (ie not TC) the passing level is not needed in many cases as we can validate and verify without it (being transferred from a sector/centre deemed capable of doing so is how we do it). Even a/c transferred from the Mil have been validated and verified by their controller. As always there are exceptions..........
I personally like the waypoint to be added but do not know if its a requirement. I like it as it gives an idea of where to look for the return on the radar and also find the strip in the correct bay.
I personally like the waypoint to be added but do not know if its a requirement. I like it as it gives an idea of where to look for the return on the radar and also find the strip in the correct bay.
On first contact with destination airfield we're supposed to get something like:-
"C/S, Boeing 7xx with information blah blah received, heading blah blah, speed 250blahs, passing level blah blah, descending to altitude blah blah blah"
Frequently abbreviated to:-
"C/S, visual, wheresmatraffic?"
"C/S, Boeing 7xx with information blah blah received, heading blah blah, speed 250blahs, passing level blah blah, descending to altitude blah blah blah"
Frequently abbreviated to:-
"C/S, visual, wheresmatraffic?"
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I was a military controller for many years and now work in a mil sim. My questions are , what is the responce from the civilian sector controller when an ac first calls (having received it's joining clearance previously) and what is the controllers responce when an ac comes on frequency from another sector. Just trying to make it as realistic as possible for the crews.
Cheers Moony
Cheers Moony
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As Lon More mentioned Maastricht UAC, they to me seem to be the only ACC in Europe that actually make me give the level passing should I forget/choose not to tell them on the first call.
I never heard of having to give the squawk on initial contact as Lon More suggests.
I never heard of having to give the squawk on initial contact as Lon More suggests.
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moony, when tx'ed from a Mil controller having had joining clearance, civil then should give a service (FIS/RIS/RAS(!)/RCS) and at UK centres, a routing. Should the a/c be outside and also need climb/descent I normally just re-issue the joining clearance with the new FL/waypoint/heading and give the full routing afterwards. If an a/c has come from another sector, I just say 'roger' or good morn/after/evening unless I can improve the level or route.
