ATC survey - UK
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Ian,
I work for NATS,I have not been asked to take part in any survey about stress,I haven't heard of any such survey,therefore it's not surprising that many of my colleagues are sceptical of your intentions.I'm sure they would be more than willing to give you their valid opinions when informed of all the facts.If you are not familiar with these forums,you might not understand some of the cynicism that is being returned in your direction.
If memory serves me correctly,prior to the 1987 WPP agreement,many ATCO's took part in a month long life style survey,which concluded that stress was not as prevalent in our industry as was thought.I look forward to seeing your report and HOW the data was compiled.
I work for NATS,I have not been asked to take part in any survey about stress,I haven't heard of any such survey,therefore it's not surprising that many of my colleagues are sceptical of your intentions.I'm sure they would be more than willing to give you their valid opinions when informed of all the facts.If you are not familiar with these forums,you might not understand some of the cynicism that is being returned in your direction.
If memory serves me correctly,prior to the 1987 WPP agreement,many ATCO's took part in a month long life style survey,which concluded that stress was not as prevalent in our industry as was thought.I look forward to seeing your report and HOW the data was compiled.
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NATS,
Thanks for being so honest.
I can assure you this survey was done.
Maybe it was a selective survey and only a proportion of ATC people were asked.
If so then the survey is flawed and not worth the paper it's written on.
I don't blame people for being sceptical...That's why I became a trade unionist.
I've spoke with some ATC people off the record who have told me they would be disciplined if they spoke about internal matters.
If anyone would like to talk to me in confidence my email address is available for them to do so.
Thanks for being so honest.
I can assure you this survey was done.
Maybe it was a selective survey and only a proportion of ATC people were asked.
If so then the survey is flawed and not worth the paper it's written on.
I don't blame people for being sceptical...That's why I became a trade unionist.
I've spoke with some ATC people off the record who have told me they would be disciplined if they spoke about internal matters.
If anyone would like to talk to me in confidence my email address is available for them to do so.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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If such a survey on Stress was done then it was kept well hidden. We are notorious for gossip in our industry and had one person on the unit received it then they would soon have been checking if anyone else had also received it.
I was never privy to said survey I wonder how many of my other colleagues were?
The type of people attracted and who succeed in this profession are not the type to stress easily. As has already been stated it isn't the job that stresses us out. when things get rough at home for one reason or the other it is the one place we can feel intensely comfortable and at ease with ourselves through knowledge that we know how to do our job.
Early retirement has again has already been stated is something we all I would imagine strive for, not because we hate our jobs but there comes a point in everyones lives when they say thats it I want to travel the world, do my own thing before my health gives out etc.
There are IMHO way more stressful life styles than ours, our working hours are well regulated, in spite of all our moans and groans we are reasonably well paid and our Employer does in the main look after us pretty well. I think the likes of junior doctors, soldiers serving out in Iraq and teachers putting up with some of the dregs in school have a far more stressful time than us.
I was never privy to said survey I wonder how many of my other colleagues were?
The type of people attracted and who succeed in this profession are not the type to stress easily. As has already been stated it isn't the job that stresses us out. when things get rough at home for one reason or the other it is the one place we can feel intensely comfortable and at ease with ourselves through knowledge that we know how to do our job.
Early retirement has again has already been stated is something we all I would imagine strive for, not because we hate our jobs but there comes a point in everyones lives when they say thats it I want to travel the world, do my own thing before my health gives out etc.
There are IMHO way more stressful life styles than ours, our working hours are well regulated, in spite of all our moans and groans we are reasonably well paid and our Employer does in the main look after us pretty well. I think the likes of junior doctors, soldiers serving out in Iraq and teachers putting up with some of the dregs in school have a far more stressful time than us.
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It's a fact of life that any job that is paying for food on the table and the roof over your head is gonna be stressful.
But, as Flower quite rightly says, ATCOs working conditions are SO strictly regulated that we cannot really have too much to be stressed about.
Perhaps this is something that all these kids getting into it ought to think about when they moan about how hard done to they are. Try working on a farm.
P7
But, as Flower quite rightly says, ATCOs working conditions are SO strictly regulated that we cannot really have too much to be stressed about.
Perhaps this is something that all these kids getting into it ought to think about when they moan about how hard done to they are. Try working on a farm.
P7
More than just an ATCO
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If it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck then .....
So you work for the Sun? 
No accusation made; don't jump to conclusions
So where can we find it?
I'm not being delberately obstructive but as pointed out on the home page, and as is well known on the internet, people are often not who they ckaim to be.
You appear here with your first post and expect instant trust on something that could be twisted into a gutter journalist's dreams come true.
1: I'm not a journalist
2: I'm not on here to get ANYONE into TROUBLE
3: My research is for public consumption
I'm not being delberately obstructive but as pointed out on the home page, and as is well known on the internet, people are often not who they ckaim to be.
You appear here with your first post and expect instant trust on something that could be twisted into a gutter journalist's dreams come true.
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Strange there has been no mention of this survey in:-
1) FI
2) Flyer
3) The Times (Would make good story and there would be a whistle blower)!
4). On Here
before Ianblack mentioned it.
A private researcher who is a trade union something. Makes even less sense now. After all you would be a shop steward, would you not!
Most journalists are in a union.
If this research is for a public body, and I have carried out such work myself in a different field; you get access to the staff to carry out interviews. This is illustrated by IIP.
Also if it is for public consumption and is commissioned by a public body then it will have to go to a committee in final draft before publication. This means that you could not publish it here first!
In my former profession I wrote 2 papers for the predecessor to the ODPM, the DTLR so am exceptionally well versed in the process.
I rest my case
1) FI
2) Flyer
3) The Times (Would make good story and there would be a whistle blower)!
4). On Here
before Ianblack mentioned it.
A private researcher who is a trade union something. Makes even less sense now. After all you would be a shop steward, would you not!
Most journalists are in a union.
If this research is for a public body, and I have carried out such work myself in a different field; you get access to the staff to carry out interviews. This is illustrated by IIP.
Also if it is for public consumption and is commissioned by a public body then it will have to go to a committee in final draft before publication. This means that you could not publish it here first!
In my former profession I wrote 2 papers for the predecessor to the ODPM, the DTLR so am exceptionally well versed in the process.
I rest my case
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I've read through this thread from start to finish, and I have one eyebrow raised, questioningly...
Ianblack, you keep reffewrring to this mysterious survey, and yet ATCOs from all over the UK have told you that they have never heard of it. I have never heard of it (not an ATCO, but ATC Training). maybe, just maybe, it doesn't exist
You have been asked why you want this information. You don't reply. You have been asked who you are working for. You get all evasive. I would suggest that if you wish to continue your career as a professional researcher, you develop better ways of interacting with people!
Is there stress in ATC? yes. Just like there is in any profession. When I was 18, just before joining NATS, I was a breakfast waiter at an airport hotel - you should have seen the stress we were working under!
Early retirement? Your employer offers to give you loads of money to go away from work, see the world, dig your garden, whatever you want to do.. and you wonder why people are queueing up for it?
Mr Chips
Quite relaxed today, thank you for asking.....
Ianblack, you keep reffewrring to this mysterious survey, and yet ATCOs from all over the UK have told you that they have never heard of it. I have never heard of it (not an ATCO, but ATC Training). maybe, just maybe, it doesn't exist
You have been asked why you want this information. You don't reply. You have been asked who you are working for. You get all evasive. I would suggest that if you wish to continue your career as a professional researcher, you develop better ways of interacting with people!
Is there stress in ATC? yes. Just like there is in any profession. When I was 18, just before joining NATS, I was a breakfast waiter at an airport hotel - you should have seen the stress we were working under!
Early retirement? Your employer offers to give you loads of money to go away from work, see the world, dig your garden, whatever you want to do.. and you wonder why people are queueing up for it?
Mr Chips
Quite relaxed today, thank you for asking.....
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Totally agree...
Life in this day and age is stressful....2 partners having to work to pay the mortgage, bring up kids...teaching has to be 1 of the most stressful professions in this day and age....just cos 75% say they are not stressed does not mean 25% are, they probably just can't be bothered...!
Life in this day and age is stressful....2 partners having to work to pay the mortgage, bring up kids...teaching has to be 1 of the most stressful professions in this day and age....just cos 75% say they are not stressed does not mean 25% are, they probably just can't be bothered...!
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Apparently Ian Black hasn't heard of it either as there has been no mention of the name of the report! (after someone asking for it! -to be helpful mind you)
Silence is deafing -i wonder if it exists!
That's my tuppence worth!
Silence is deafing -i wonder if it exists!
That's my tuppence worth!
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Many thanks for all your replies.
I've not seen the survey and don't know the name of it either.
The survey was not just about stress it covered many issues.
It does exist, the union and sources at NATS have told me so.
I'm assuming that those who've not heard or been involved in it were not asked. I'd then assume it was a selective survey of a proportion of the workforce.
As for taking the bait and arguing the points some of you guys and gals have made...it's not my style.
I asked an honest question and respect all the answers I've been given...thanks for that.
And just for the record: not one person I've spoken to has knocked NATS or ATC officers and I've spoken to many people in the industry.....This thread was not an exercise to do that.
As for London and the SUN journalist reply...both made me laugh.
London stresses me out as well and the Sun...well I've already denied I'm a journalist...don't think they employ journalists anyway.
I've not seen the survey and don't know the name of it either.
The survey was not just about stress it covered many issues.
It does exist, the union and sources at NATS have told me so.
I'm assuming that those who've not heard or been involved in it were not asked. I'd then assume it was a selective survey of a proportion of the workforce.
As for taking the bait and arguing the points some of you guys and gals have made...it's not my style.
I asked an honest question and respect all the answers I've been given...thanks for that.
And just for the record: not one person I've spoken to has knocked NATS or ATC officers and I've spoken to many people in the industry.....This thread was not an exercise to do that.
As for London and the SUN journalist reply...both made me laugh.
London stresses me out as well and the Sun...well I've already denied I'm a journalist...don't think they employ journalists anyway.
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Is the survey in question the one which was circulated about five years ago regarding lifestyle ... how much you drink and smoke etc?
Oh, and hi Ian, I'm one of your 25%. The other guys mustn't have to deal with class G airspace.
Oh, and hi Ian, I'm one of your 25%. The other guys mustn't have to deal with class G airspace.
Panthera pardus puella
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nah def not heard of this alleged survey
woulda thought if you ARE doing this research then you would have access to it one way or another . . . . . . .
by the way - a survey i DID see published somewhere once on stress levels said that the most stressful job, based on heart rate, was . . . . . . . a supermarket check out assistant, and it did emcompass atc amongst other jobs
maybe you should direct your research in that direction
yaffs
woulda thought if you ARE doing this research then you would have access to it one way or another . . . . . . .
by the way - a survey i DID see published somewhere once on stress levels said that the most stressful job, based on heart rate, was . . . . . . . a supermarket check out assistant, and it did emcompass atc amongst other jobs
maybe you should direct your research in that direction
yaffs
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Stress?!
We're lucky we don't work for the NHS. Now there's an "organisation" who don't know how to look after their staff.
Imagine coming home from work the night before you're due to start a new job to an answerphone message telling you that you're actually starting a totally different job in a different location.
We ARE lucky!
We're lucky we don't work for the NHS. Now there's an "organisation" who don't know how to look after their staff.
Imagine coming home from work the night before you're due to start a new job to an answerphone message telling you that you're actually starting a totally different job in a different location.
We ARE lucky!