Height Issue

[hc003540]

Hello,

I was wondering if any of the current NATS employees would be able to help me. I applied to NATS on the 2nd August 2002 and passed through the selection process, medical and security checks. On 3rd February 2003 I was offered a place on the course starting on 6th September 2004.

After waiting almost 3 years, NATS contacted two weeks ago I was asked down to attend a health and safety assessment at LATC and the collage.

This week I received a letter from HR saying they are withdrawing me from the training course and terminating my offer of employment as I’m too tall (I’m 6ft 10).

I was wondering if there were any other NATS employers that would be kind enough to let me know if there are any other tall people within NATS via email or PM.

Has this Heath and safety assessment been carried out on anyone else? Or has anyone else experienced the same problem?

Also does anyone know of any good private training courses?

Thank You for you time.

Ben

[Lock n' Load]

I can't offer any practical help, being a mere 6'2", but I'm absolutely disgusted that you can be excluded for such a rediculous reason. If you're capable of holding a Class One medical certificate, that should be all that matters on the health front.
NATS had a wheelchair-bound trainee while I was a student ATCO and while it's absolutely right that he shouldn't be discriminated against, a tall person is much less of a H&S risk than a tall person.
My advice is get a good lawyer and fight like crazy for your rights.
All of I sudden, I'm very glad that as of yesterday I don't work for NATS!

[Brian81]

My jaw drops in shock...

I agree with the previous post... take them to court...

It's blatent discrimination... I can't believe it, I really can't.

I hope you've got this in writing...

I can't think of a single reason why they would refuse you, even on H&S grounds...

Unbelieveable.

bri.

[Someone_Else]

Hi Ben,

I heard this news from seperate channels and I am a bit shocked to hear about it espicially as you were actually geared up for a college postion.

I hope you can get this resolved to your satisfaction.

Regards

Craig

[hc003540]

I have been to lawyers, solicitors etc and currently there is nothing in UK or European law to say that this is wrong. So the long and short of it is that I have no legal case against them.

After waiting three years doing temping jobs etc I have no legal leg to stand on.

The best they can come up with is sexual discrimination based on the fact that men are generally taller than women and therefore I have been discriminated against. Buts it’s a very very very weak case and the costs to fight it will probably be more than I can claim.

Current discrimination law only covers, sexual orientation, gender, race and disabilities.

Ben

[Flap Speed]

Ben,

This is utterly appalling. You have my full support as you know.. but it does no harm to put it on here either.

I'm clutching at straws at the moment but what about the Equal Opportunities Commission... and the European Court of Human Rights... (the latter is probably a bit extreme).

Many years ago the police used to have a height restriction. In later years it was considered to be discriminatory to smaller people and as such the height rule was abolished.

I can see no reason why this should not be applied in the reverse. You ARE being discriminated against and their handling of your case shows total incompetence. How tall were you when you went for the interviews and selection.. ? I would figure probably about what you are now.. in which case they knew then.. so why does it take until now for them to start making excuses.

Good luck.. and IF this is what you really set your heart on doing... don't give up. Stand up and fight for it

[Jerricho]

Well, this certainly is a new crowning achievement for NATS recruiting.

Maybe Gonzo et al will correct me, but we had a guy on our course who was easily over 6 foot 6 (Mr P, you're not floating round here are you?) Have you asked NATS what their official cut off height is? And ask them to point the policy out in black and white.

[Brian81]

I suggest you get a second legal opinion as that doesnt seem correct.

The British legal system is called "reasonable".
ie; "reasonable" grounds for rejection, beyond "reasonable" doubt, etc, etc. And if its not already gone through the courts, then going through them sets whats called a "prescedence".

It seems that the police height issue may have already set that prescedence - so if you want this career - and believe me, its the best career ever, get this sorted.

This is by far a very unreasonable basis for cancelling your employment.

And just a thought... [quick laugh to end on]

You'd probably be going to Swannick, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but Swannick's ceilings are about 50ft up in the air.

Its not like your going to be a pilot in a finite about of space.

Anyhoo. Enjoy the weekend as best you can.

Any help I can offer, please PM me.
[I'm sure that goes for lots of us on PPRuNe.]


Bri

[2 sheds]

Ben

I am sure I am right in saying that you have the support and sympathy of all of us. I am disgusted to read of your experience.

Another angle might be breach of contract on the part of NATS. How can they offer you employment and then susequently withdraw it? What is their precise reason? How is it that you passed a medical and no "problem" was noticed - apart, perhaps from you banging your head on the ceiling?

Precendent - there is a bloke on a current course who, I think, is of very similar height. If he is out there, perhaps he will respond, either here or privately.

Another thought - although, presumably, you are not a member already, could the NATS ATCOs' union, Prospect, take up the case?

We are all with you - this is disgraceful.

Best wishes

2 sheds

[hc003540]

Hi guys,

Thank you for your kind words.

I asked a friend to ring HR three days afterwards and ask about applying for an Air Traffic post. He said he was over 7ft and was told that wouldn't be a problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NATS HR really do leave a lot to be desired!!!! There’s nothing in there application forms, like there is if you wanted be a pilot etc....

Would anyone be able to give me some contact details for Prospect?

Oh and Bri when I went to Swanick I caught my head on the bit that slopes down!!!!!!

Cheers.

Ben

[PPRuNe Radar]

There may be some units where the desk furniture would make it difficult for you to work without straining something or ending up with a bad back, but I don't see that as an excuse for not hiring you in the first place. Some units will be more ideal than others for someone of your stature and this could be taken in to account surely.

I would certainly fight the decision all the way.

Good luck.

[Mr Chips]

If they have cited "health and safety" I'm guessing that it is a furniture issue.... constantly bending to see radar... But I'm only guessing. We do have a Human factors department, so it will probably be a decision from that dept.... I don't know the current student that someone mentioned, but I can't remember any exceptionally tall students at LTCC over the years....

Mr Chips

[ILS 119.5]

If you are as tall as you say you are then I can see ergonomic problems. However if NATS have offerred you a job then I think legally they have to comply. If you were applying to fly as a pilot then you would be too tall. The only problem that I can see is that you're height would make you too tall to see the radar screen, i.e. you're head would be too high. This is not your problem, it is a problem for NATS and you should not be discriminated for your height.
Where is the Flying Lawyer for advice.
If you do get the course then please do area control as we still need control towers.

[2 sheds]

Further to last and to the latest contributions, if some Jobsworth is worried about you sueing NATS when you strain your back or bump your head, surely you signing a simple disclaimer would nail that one. Either way, if it has been handled in the way you describe, it seems despicable.

[Phantom99]

Ben,

I didn't realise you were supposed to be starting in Sept, that's even worse than I thought initially.

I received your email and will do my best to find out the info. I had heard from someone that the college was having to change certain fixtures to accomodate the person we were talking about, I wonder if that caused the sudden change of decision?

All the best.

[055166k]

hc003540

Was there a height qualification on the original job description?
I can't believe what I'm reading, is this some kind of wind-up? NATS had better be very careful, I know of at least three major H&S violations at Swanwick concerning disabled access and similar. What was the sloping bit you refer to?
Send a copy file of all communication to your MP, and if no reply within 14 days send to a Daily Paper; tell your MP that is what you intend to do.

[Bern Oulli]

I was thinking "Disability Discrimination Act", but a quick look did not reveal whether overly tall people could be considered as suffering from a disability within the meaning of the Act.

Flying Lawyer, where are you?

Further comment from me is unnecessary - it has mostly been said already.

[2 sheds]

Ben - however, clearly someone in NATS has decided that your height is a disability. Follow the logic from there....!

You could always try appearing in a wheelchair (to effectively lower your height) and demand to be accommodated.

Anyone out there able to contact Flying Lawyer direct? (Ben, for your info that is not just his handle).

[Bern Oulli]

Disability Discrimination Act 1995 may be worth a read, and indeed, may be of interest to others.

[2close]

hc003540,

I did respond in the Medical Section but, to reiterate, Health & Safety and Disability Access / Discrimination is my field.

There are some questions / answers to be raised but at this stage I can only do so through PMs.

Drop me a PM and I'll get back to you.

Best Regards,

2close