finningley ATC
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When they get the staff. At the moment they haven't. Put it this way, there are not enough radar qualified controllers to do the approach and they have not advertised yet. Bearing in mind most aviation professionals have to give three months notice then if they got the required staff by the end of June it would be 2005 before all up and running.
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"When they have enough qualified staff"
Well ILS me old mucker, they have had more than enough unsolicited applications from qualified and experienced adc/apc staff to fill the place twice over. Still, a little sabre rattling from a worried Leeds ATCO can only give the place a little extra publicity - thank you sir!
The approach radar function will be undertaken from Liverpool, procedures for both the manning of the position H24 and the actual approach procedures are well in hand with both SRG and Livepool ATC.
It is unlikely that there will be a problem filling any atco positions at Finningly, start off with experienced atco's who have a lot to offer, pay a wage which is above the market rate and as time progresses train their own atcos who are ready to fill vacancies that occur by natural wastage, these people can expect to move on to further training to work elsewhere within the company if they have the talant to do so.
Believe it or not, this is a tried and proven method that is very successful at a lot of regional airports - even Leeds!
The best thing about Finningly, is that it offers the opportunity to anyone who is serious about their future to get in there and be part of what will be a very successful venture, whatever their asperations are, it's just a shame there are so many blinkered folk who are willing to knock it but not try it.
Jinkster - The advert last month was for the post of SATCO, the appointment should be confirmed next week, followed by an advert for experienced ATCOs very shortly.
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Who says they are going to be paid above the market rate?
If you look at all the postings reference the last time Liverpool recruited the salary is well below the market rate, hence the poor response.
From what I've read so far Finningley is going to be Tower/Procedural Approach so who is going to provide Finningley Radar? Where is the radar data coming from?
Are they going to recruit ATCO's to work at Liverpool or get the Liverpool ATCO's to provide Finningley radar. I would imagine the current ATCO's at Liverpool would be demanding a significant pay rise if this is the case.
If you look at all the postings reference the last time Liverpool recruited the salary is well below the market rate, hence the poor response.
From what I've read so far Finningley is going to be Tower/Procedural Approach so who is going to provide Finningley Radar? Where is the radar data coming from?
Are they going to recruit ATCO's to work at Liverpool or get the Liverpool ATCO's to provide Finningley radar. I would imagine the current ATCO's at Liverpool would be demanding a significant pay rise if this is the case.
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Goatface,
Hope this is only a made up name.
If you read all my postings you will realise that I do not work at LBA. But I have a few friends there who tell me what is going on in the ATC world. Firstly, I have heard theat the ATCO's at EGGP are not willing to do Finningly Approoach without extra pay. They are only paid 42K (which is far less than the market value, I think that LBA ATCO's earn about 50K). SRG (or so rumour has it) do not believe that the ATC unit will be ready in time. There may be ATCO's waiting to fill the positions with a lot of experience, but they will still have to work notice periods and complete MER, which still means up and running by the start of 2005, but I doubt it and we'll see.
I am not blinkered, but experienced and after 20 years in the business I've seen it all. I am all for Finningly being a huge success, after all it serves the community. Unfortunately I do not fly short haul and may never fly from there, but I do hope it does well. I am also for ATCO's furthering themselves to obtain radar ratings if Peel Holdings approve it. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't think that LBA has a problem with Finningly as a competitor due to the present growth of LBA.
ILS 119.5
PS "talant" is spelt "talent".
Sorry forgot to add that Peel Holdings pay less than the market value for ATCO\'s. If you don\'t believe me then ask the staff at Liverpool.
Hope this is only a made up name.
If you read all my postings you will realise that I do not work at LBA. But I have a few friends there who tell me what is going on in the ATC world. Firstly, I have heard theat the ATCO's at EGGP are not willing to do Finningly Approoach without extra pay. They are only paid 42K (which is far less than the market value, I think that LBA ATCO's earn about 50K). SRG (or so rumour has it) do not believe that the ATC unit will be ready in time. There may be ATCO's waiting to fill the positions with a lot of experience, but they will still have to work notice periods and complete MER, which still means up and running by the start of 2005, but I doubt it and we'll see.
I am not blinkered, but experienced and after 20 years in the business I've seen it all. I am all for Finningly being a huge success, after all it serves the community. Unfortunately I do not fly short haul and may never fly from there, but I do hope it does well. I am also for ATCO's furthering themselves to obtain radar ratings if Peel Holdings approve it. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't think that LBA has a problem with Finningly as a competitor due to the present growth of LBA.
ILS 119.5
PS "talant" is spelt "talent".
Sorry forgot to add that Peel Holdings pay less than the market value for ATCO\'s. If you don\'t believe me then ask the staff at Liverpool.
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as far as I am aware the RAF left nothing that would be of any use-I believe the ILS is coming from Sheffield, the Radar cover from a local site piped to Liverpool, though whether this is meant to be primary or secondary or both I know not-would have thought getting approval to use off site primary quite difficult, so putting in a primary radar may be required
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I take it from the above posts that the purported reason for the RAF vacating Finningley in the first place (potential subsidence from extensive mineworkings beneath the runway and hardstandings etc.) would appear to be tosh then?
Still, saved the Government a few pennies in closing it, (complete with a BRAND new Nav School building,) so that's OK then!
Still, saved the Government a few pennies in closing it, (complete with a BRAND new Nav School building,) so that's OK then!
niknak
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My mole on the inside tells me that the first commercial flight is due to depart "Robin Hood" "finningly" or whatever you want to call it, in mid March 2005.
With regard to TT's comments regarding the mineworkings, you may not know that the runway was strengthened a year or so prior to the Government telling the MOD that the base would close, and also that there are extensive ongoing works to ensure that there will not be any problems in the future.
If there were any problems, companies such as Thompson or ANA Air Cargo would not have committed themselves to the place.
I don't know what the salary scale will be, but the requirement is for tower and APC rated atco's, and the salary for experienced candidates needed for the start up will be above the market rate.
Radar (Approach control) will be done from EGGP, and the procedures for that to be implemented are already well underway, (along with plans to expand the ATC team at GP to accomodate it).
Once they are up and running, I understand that they will operate a training scheme for local people to join as ATCAs, with a view to ATCO training, do the ADC and APC courses, then in due course, do the APR course and move to either Teesside or Liverpool.
Whether or not these candidates are chopped NATS cadets or locals, it doesn't matter, cos there will always be a guaranteed supply of highly intelligent candidates who are more than capable of doing the job.
I can't understand why so many people want to knock what is bound to be a highly successful operation and a marvellous opportunity for everyone seeking a first or new career in aviation.
A typical British trait I suppose.
With regard to TT's comments regarding the mineworkings, you may not know that the runway was strengthened a year or so prior to the Government telling the MOD that the base would close, and also that there are extensive ongoing works to ensure that there will not be any problems in the future.
If there were any problems, companies such as Thompson or ANA Air Cargo would not have committed themselves to the place.
I don't know what the salary scale will be, but the requirement is for tower and APC rated atco's, and the salary for experienced candidates needed for the start up will be above the market rate.
Radar (Approach control) will be done from EGGP, and the procedures for that to be implemented are already well underway, (along with plans to expand the ATC team at GP to accomodate it).
Once they are up and running, I understand that they will operate a training scheme for local people to join as ATCAs, with a view to ATCO training, do the ADC and APC courses, then in due course, do the APR course and move to either Teesside or Liverpool.
Whether or not these candidates are chopped NATS cadets or locals, it doesn't matter, cos there will always be a guaranteed supply of highly intelligent candidates who are more than capable of doing the job.
I can't understand why so many people want to knock what is bound to be a highly successful operation and a marvellous opportunity for everyone seeking a first or new career in aviation.
A typical British trait I suppose.
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Niknak, if you were referring to me you got me wrong. I'm not knocking Robin Finningley at all or chopped Nats cadets for that matter.
All I'm saying is, if rumour is true, there will be few experienced atco's interested at the salary being offered.
As far as career progression is concerned are you saying Robin Hood will be a training ground for EGGP and EGNV?
All I'm saying is, if rumour is true, there will be few experienced atco's interested at the salary being offered.
As far as career progression is concerned are you saying Robin Hood will be a training ground for EGGP and EGNV?
niknak
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Bol - no I'm not inferring that you were having a pop at anyone, and yes, I am inferring that Finningly will become a breeding ground for future NV and GP, or ATCOs at any other airport that Peel may aquire in the future.
Put trainee ATCOs through the ADC and APC courses, keep them at Finningly for a couple of years, then send them on the APR course - if they pass, in time they go elswhere within the group, if they don't, they stay at Finningly, at least I think thats the plan.
Which has got to be better than doing the ADC and APC, failing the APR and finding yourself on the scrap heap, which is what has happened in the past at GP.
I am sure that trainees will be paid enough to live in a tent and buy one loaf of bread per week, but I think most of us went through that at some stage of our training.
No names have been mentioned, but there have been several applications from experienced and appropriately qualified ATCOs to join the operation at start up, and Peel are prepared to pay at least the market rate to ensure that they have sufficiant ATCOs to ensure no interruptions of Ops once they've started.
I believe that the SATCO will be appointed this week, and that the "ATCO hunt" starts about 30 seconds later....
Put trainee ATCOs through the ADC and APC courses, keep them at Finningly for a couple of years, then send them on the APR course - if they pass, in time they go elswhere within the group, if they don't, they stay at Finningly, at least I think thats the plan.
Which has got to be better than doing the ADC and APC, failing the APR and finding yourself on the scrap heap, which is what has happened in the past at GP.
I am sure that trainees will be paid enough to live in a tent and buy one loaf of bread per week, but I think most of us went through that at some stage of our training.
No names have been mentioned, but there have been several applications from experienced and appropriately qualified ATCOs to join the operation at start up, and Peel are prepared to pay at least the market rate to ensure that they have sufficiant ATCOs to ensure no interruptions of Ops once they've started.
I believe that the SATCO will be appointed this week, and that the "ATCO hunt" starts about 30 seconds later....
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I am sure that trainees will be paid enough to live in a tent and buy one loaf of bread per week, but I think most of us went through that at some stage of our training.
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If they are getting their radar piped from Waddington it must be a first for the RAF, selling their data to a separate civil ATC unit located elsewhere and with their own controllers.