Naughty Elephants Squirt Water
Gizajob
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Naughty Elephants Squirt Water
Posted a query on the Rotorheads site but would like a bit of ATC input on this too...
I'm a part time FISO at an airfield that handles a decent amount of rotary traffic. When working with departing or arriving helos, the pilot will often state one direction and then depart to/ arrive from the opposite. It's nearly always an E/W confusion, not N/S. It's so common that all the FISOs will look both West and East to get visual contact with someone reporting at the Western boundary for instance. Fixed wing pilots do it too of course, but it's a lot rarer.
I've had some good feedback on the possible reasons for this from the rotary mob - my question here is:
does anyone else see the same thing? Even more interesting - can anyone suggest ways to reduce the risk of it happening
I had someone transit across the active runway last week, having said they were going in the opposite direction, so it would be good to know...
I'm a part time FISO at an airfield that handles a decent amount of rotary traffic. When working with departing or arriving helos, the pilot will often state one direction and then depart to/ arrive from the opposite. It's nearly always an E/W confusion, not N/S. It's so common that all the FISOs will look both West and East to get visual contact with someone reporting at the Western boundary for instance. Fixed wing pilots do it too of course, but it's a lot rarer.
I've had some good feedback on the possible reasons for this from the rotary mob - my question here is:
does anyone else see the same thing? Even more interesting - can anyone suggest ways to reduce the risk of it happening
I had someone transit across the active runway last week, having said they were going in the opposite direction, so it would be good to know...
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Hi,
As a FISO I very occasionally see this - sat at the desk we are facing North, sometimes a helicopter hovering on the North Side facing South will say departing East, but go West - I think it may be to do with a relating a the '12 OClock' position to North mentally and relating the intended track to that
As a FISO I very occasionally see this - sat at the desk we are facing North, sometimes a helicopter hovering on the North Side facing South will say departing East, but go West - I think it may be to do with a relating a the '12 OClock' position to North mentally and relating the intended track to that
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Timothy
For some reason the CAA won't allow an aerodrome to have 'official' and published VRP's for aerodromes operating anything other than an aerodrome (Tower) control service at the very least.
Remember the days when Lydd had VRP's (was it Rye, Ashford, and Appledore or something like those?), they had them untill 3, 4 or maybe 5 years ago (Lydd went from ATC to a FIS/AG at least 12 years ago), when they finally realised the screwup they removed them....still doesn't stop people using the positions as VRP's whatsoever!
Does anyone know why they won't actually legally allow busy aerodromes who would benefit from a VRP to have them?
Nominate VRPs?
Remember the days when Lydd had VRP's (was it Rye, Ashford, and Appledore or something like those?), they had them untill 3, 4 or maybe 5 years ago (Lydd went from ATC to a FIS/AG at least 12 years ago), when they finally realised the screwup they removed them....still doesn't stop people using the positions as VRP's whatsoever!
Does anyone know why they won't actually legally allow busy aerodromes who would benefit from a VRP to have them?
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Squadgy
If the FISO's are transmitting an ATIS at the weekends then they must hold a Met. Observers certificate. There aren't many FISOs who hold these, also, if theres an ATIS I think they also have to send routine observations to the Met. Office and therefore the aerodrome would get a TAF issued. What airfield is this??
Also, why can't non-ATC 'fields have an ATIS, but airfields which are full ATC weekdays but FIS at weekends can
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Wolverhampton do, see :
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/p...es/302BO01.PDF
Pretty sure that they don't issue TAFs
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/p...es/302BO01.PDF
Pretty sure that they don't issue TAFs
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Squadgy
Wolverhampton FISO's must hold Met. Observer certificates as previously mentioned, unless they announce each report as "The Wolverhampton un-official observation...." etc, perhaps this must be the case, forgot this option before.
Wolverhampton do, see : http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/...mes/302BO01.PDF
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Possibly, but the unit I work at has been told that as we are not full ATC we can't have ATIS. If it was a case of all the FISOs doing the Met Observer course then this is probably what would have been done.
What we have done is to introduce a system where the airfield info and 'unofficial' met is displayed on a monitor in the briefing room. The pilots read this, note the designator (e.g. Information Alpha), and just read the designator and pressure setting back - we then give taxy clearance. This obviously has SRG approval, is working well and cuts down a lot of R/T. It would be nice if something similar could be done for inbound traffic though - but this would mean a R/T based ATIS.
What we have done is to introduce a system where the airfield info and 'unofficial' met is displayed on a monitor in the briefing room. The pilots read this, note the designator (e.g. Information Alpha), and just read the designator and pressure setting back - we then give taxy clearance. This obviously has SRG approval, is working well and cuts down a lot of R/T. It would be nice if something similar could be done for inbound traffic though - but this would mean a R/T based ATIS.
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Wolverhampton FIS obviously has 'Grandfather' rights in that case.
The CAA obviously won't allow a new ATIS installation at a non ATC unit which is why I reckon they have gradfather rights.
The CAA are very picky about this kind of thing, they won't allow some airfields to do quite a lot if new things although they let London City do it, no questions asked!
When challenged as to why 'we', an aerodrome formed in the 1950's can't do something but London City, an aerodrome built 30 odd years later in the 1980's are allowed to do exactly the same thing, the CAA's excuse is that "they have grandfather rights".
I wonder what Oxford do, they are ATC during the week and FIS at weekends.........?!
The CAA obviously won't allow a new ATIS installation at a non ATC unit which is why I reckon they have gradfather rights.
The CAA are very picky about this kind of thing, they won't allow some airfields to do quite a lot if new things although they let London City do it, no questions asked!
When challenged as to why 'we', an aerodrome formed in the 1950's can't do something but London City, an aerodrome built 30 odd years later in the 1980's are allowed to do exactly the same thing, the CAA's excuse is that "they have grandfather rights".
I wonder what Oxford do, they are ATC during the week and FIS at weekends.........?!
I'matightbastard
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Pilots from the Southern Hemisphere perhaps?
Actually, I've noticed the same thing when I'm driving. I never have a problem with North and South, but when I have to choose the correct lane for Loop 12 East or Loop 12 West, I have to think which one I want
Maybe I'm just getting old.
Actually, I've noticed the same thing when I'm driving. I never have a problem with North and South, but when I have to choose the correct lane for Loop 12 East or Loop 12 West, I have to think which one I want
Maybe I'm just getting old.
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Tee
Yep. Well done that man.
If you look 8 posts above yours, you will notice that Wolverhampton provide an ATC service during the week, and a FIS at weekends.
Were disscussing the FIS part of the airport operation.
As posted by Squadgy see: http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/...mes/302BO01.PDF
Wolverhampton is ATC
If you look 8 posts above yours, you will notice that Wolverhampton provide an ATC service during the week, and a FIS at weekends.
Were disscussing the FIS part of the airport operation.
As posted by Squadgy see: http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/...mes/302BO01.PDF
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I have been a tower controller for more years than I care to mention and despite the fact that I use east/west references every day I still have to make a concious effort when I am using east or west. The same problem does not occur when using north/south.
Perhaps it is just a spacial thing. As a kid I never had any problem at all remembering which was up and which was down (north and south) but I had heaps of trouble remembering left from right (east west).
Then again, I have been told I would forget my own name if it wasn't on my security pass
Perhaps it is just a spacial thing. As a kid I never had any problem at all remembering which was up and which was down (north and south) but I had heaps of trouble remembering left from right (east west).
Then again, I have been told I would forget my own name if it wasn't on my security pass
