Career advice needed
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Career advice needed
Hi folks!
I'm thinking about joining the RAF as an ATCO and wondered if anyone could give me an insight into how a military controller and civilan's work compares i.e. pay and conditions, career development etc.
Also, what are the typical job prospects of an officer after their service?
Thanks in advance.
I'm thinking about joining the RAF as an ATCO and wondered if anyone could give me an insight into how a military controller and civilan's work compares i.e. pay and conditions, career development etc.
Also, what are the typical job prospects of an officer after their service?
Thanks in advance.
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Can't give advice on the civi side however the mil side of controlling is great fun.
In the RAF you'll get to either a airbase where you can do TOWER, APPROACH etc. or go to AREA (SWANICK(MIL) or ScATCC(MIL))
I would think that tower would be more demanding in the RAF than in civi as you may have eg 5 pointy aircraft in the visual circuit, a couple that need to be intergrated doing IFR approaches.
Area you work in the same place as the civi's using the same equipment to the same working conditions (more or less).
except you get to man the D&D cell which is lots of fun whem its busy (or very very boring when its not!)
**Boring is good means nobody is in trouble!
Pay is not bad average for a Flt Lt is about £25K - obvious downside is that you get to go to overseas places sometimes at short notice (never had to mind you!)
You'll move about every couple of years however you can ask to stay somewhere if you really like it!
Thats about it off the top of my head - PM me if you want more info!
In the RAF you'll get to either a airbase where you can do TOWER, APPROACH etc. or go to AREA (SWANICK(MIL) or ScATCC(MIL))
I would think that tower would be more demanding in the RAF than in civi as you may have eg 5 pointy aircraft in the visual circuit, a couple that need to be intergrated doing IFR approaches.
Area you work in the same place as the civi's using the same equipment to the same working conditions (more or less).
except you get to man the D&D cell which is lots of fun whem its busy (or very very boring when its not!)
**Boring is good means nobody is in trouble!
Pay is not bad average for a Flt Lt is about £25K - obvious downside is that you get to go to overseas places sometimes at short notice (never had to mind you!)
You'll move about every couple of years however you can ask to stay somewhere if you really like it!
Thats about it off the top of my head - PM me if you want more info!
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Ok - last question first. Do you want to do ATC after the service career?
If you do - it's shock time. Your mil ATC experience will count for nothing and you'll have to re-qualify. As you get older it gets harder, especially the bookwork (I know someone who's about to go down this road - he's under no illusions how strange, different and difficult it may be, with no definite job at the end of training, which he's paying for).
Next pay and conditions. Yes, social life is great, mess life is lots of fun - but pay at £25K for a Flt Lt being not bad - I suspect it's higher than that, but still less than the civilian counterpart. (I left in a non-commissioned position 8 years ago on £15K - I've almost trebled that).
Remember this - in the Air Force system you are an Officer first, an ATCO second. Out of area deployments, secondary duties, station duties will all be part of the lifestyle along with actually doing the job. The UK is involved in some unsavoury parts of the world at the moment and while we insist on trying to police it alongside our much larger allies you'll find your lords and masters at the MoD trying to do a lot more with less people. If your wide eyed, idealistic youth relishes this now then great - but I can assure you the reality will replace eagerness with cynicism.
Speak to the careers advisors and the recruiters, but mentally play down the good things you're told about and think up the bad - that way there'll be no surprises and you'll have a truer picture of what you're letting yourself in for.
As for our 'learned colleague' guessing that mil towers are more demanding than civi - think again. Military airfields on the whole have similar types doing similar speeds going similar ways following each other. Civil often have to integrate traffic with such speeds differences as 100kts to 250Kts on a regular basis, with a more rigid application of IFR and Vortex separations when required. I've done both - I know which ones harder and it aint what he says
(If the Air Force is so wonderful - why has he been waiting 2.5 years to get into NATS? 
)
If you do - it's shock time. Your mil ATC experience will count for nothing and you'll have to re-qualify. As you get older it gets harder, especially the bookwork (I know someone who's about to go down this road - he's under no illusions how strange, different and difficult it may be, with no definite job at the end of training, which he's paying for).
Next pay and conditions. Yes, social life is great, mess life is lots of fun - but pay at £25K for a Flt Lt being not bad - I suspect it's higher than that, but still less than the civilian counterpart. (I left in a non-commissioned position 8 years ago on £15K - I've almost trebled that).
Remember this - in the Air Force system you are an Officer first, an ATCO second. Out of area deployments, secondary duties, station duties will all be part of the lifestyle along with actually doing the job. The UK is involved in some unsavoury parts of the world at the moment and while we insist on trying to police it alongside our much larger allies you'll find your lords and masters at the MoD trying to do a lot more with less people. If your wide eyed, idealistic youth relishes this now then great - but I can assure you the reality will replace eagerness with cynicism.
Speak to the careers advisors and the recruiters, but mentally play down the good things you're told about and think up the bad - that way there'll be no surprises and you'll have a truer picture of what you're letting yourself in for.
As for our 'learned colleague' guessing that mil towers are more demanding than civi - think again. Military airfields on the whole have similar types doing similar speeds going similar ways following each other. Civil often have to integrate traffic with such speeds differences as 100kts to 250Kts on a regular basis, with a more rigid application of IFR and Vortex separations when required. I've done both - I know which ones harder and it aint what he says
(If the Air Force is so wonderful - why has he been waiting 2.5 years to get into NATS? )
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ChilliMonster - I've been waiting sooooo long for NATS cause its taken THAT LONG.
Trust me i wanted to leave the RAF (end of SSC) and start NATS asap.
True - there is a difference but maybe seeing as I've worked at one of the busiest FJ stations in the RAF (where they like doing JMC's) and spent most of that in Tower we could agree to disagree forever!
Again pay does rise but if Clearair starts as a PO he'll be on circa £16K rising to £19K(ish) as a FO then up to approx (starting)£22K for a Flt Lt.
I left on £32K after Flt Lt in rank for 4 years.
with the new pay scales at Nats it'll take a long time to reach this level of pay (start on £14K -> £19K ->£25K (starting) top on endorsement)
your 'learned friend' takes his bow and leaves!
lol
Trust me i wanted to leave the RAF (end of SSC) and start NATS asap.
True - there is a difference but maybe seeing as I've worked at one of the busiest FJ stations in the RAF (where they like doing JMC's) and spent most of that in Tower we could agree to disagree forever!
Again pay does rise but if Clearair starts as a PO he'll be on circa £16K rising to £19K(ish) as a FO then up to approx (starting)£22K for a Flt Lt.
I left on £32K after Flt Lt in rank for 4 years.
with the new pay scales at Nats it'll take a long time to reach this level of pay (start on £14K -> £19K ->£25K (starting) top on endorsement)
your 'learned friend' takes his bow and leaves!
lol
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I am an ATCO at Swanwick valid about 10years.
This year will earn £75000 plus about £5000 overtime (optional)
A great job and now very well rewarded.
Less variety than mil I guess but some career options.
P.S. IMHO nats should take military experience into account as these people have already proved they can do the job.
This year will earn £75000 plus about £5000 overtime (optional)
A great job and now very well rewarded.
Less variety than mil I guess but some career options.
P.S. IMHO nats should take military experience into account as these people have already proved they can do the job.
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Thanks everyone!
I'm swamped with info on OASC, so I'm going to give your offer a miss Barnaby the Bear this time. I just had some last minute doubts.
Good luck with NATS tired-flyboy.
I'm swamped with info on OASC, so I'm going to give your offer a miss Barnaby the Bear this time. I just had some last minute doubts.
Good luck with NATS tired-flyboy.
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Officer pay scales here:
RAF Pay Scales for Officers Up to Air Cdre
Promotion is automatic up to flt lt; after that it's based on annual assessments and qualifications.
If you want to be an Air Traffic Controller, and like Lincolnshire, apply for Ops Spt (ATC)
If you want to control aircraft, and REALLY like Lincolnshire, consider Fighter Control when applying.
Job prospects afterwards? Depends on length of service, but, although your mil quals aren't directly transferrable, the skills are. That is why NATS accept applications from mil controllers (ATC and FC) well beyond the normal age limits. IIRC, Short-Service Commissions are about 6-8 years, Permanent Commissions are for 16 or to age 38 whichever is the longer.
Most importantly, if you go the commissioned route, OASC will want to be assured that you fully understand what that means - you are an officer first and a controller second.
RAF Pay Scales for Officers Up to Air Cdre
Promotion is automatic up to flt lt; after that it's based on annual assessments and qualifications.
If you want to be an Air Traffic Controller, and like Lincolnshire, apply for Ops Spt (ATC)
If you want to control aircraft, and REALLY like Lincolnshire, consider Fighter Control when applying.
Job prospects afterwards? Depends on length of service, but, although your mil quals aren't directly transferrable, the skills are. That is why NATS accept applications from mil controllers (ATC and FC) well beyond the normal age limits. IIRC, Short-Service Commissions are about 6-8 years, Permanent Commissions are for 16 or to age 38 whichever is the longer.
Most importantly, if you go the commissioned route, OASC will want to be assured that you fully understand what that means - you are an officer first and a controller second.
