Question for Scottish Controllers
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: UK
... I was going to jump in at this point and say "wait a minute guys, we need the final cruise level in the clearance as a check that ATC hace the same cruise level as us", then I remembered that there is no mention of the final cruise level at units which issue SIDs.
Where do we go from here?
DD is there a shorter route that is allowable that the company could file?
BOAC there are a few units that issue such clearances around the country, it is just that we don't fly to them. FF and NT have issued similar clearances in the past and I am sure they still do.
G W-H
Where do we go from here?
DD is there a shorter route that is allowable that the company could file?
BOAC there are a few units that issue such clearances around the country, it is just that we don't fly to them. FF and NT have issued similar clearances in the past and I am sure they still do.
G W-H
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 10
From: Samsonite Avenue
Just a quick point for ABZ controllers and a thought that may cut down on R/T chat.
If someone calls on 121.7 for start and states the ATIS Code and QNH that he/she has obtained, then is there much point telling the pilot the runway in use and QNH when he/she calls for taxy?
Nowadays, Aberdeen seems to be one of the few airfields in the UK where this still happens. Providing the crew provide the correct ATIS and QNH details on start up then the ATCO just tells you the holding point to taxy to when taxy is requested. Saves a few seconds on the R/T!
If someone calls on 121.7 for start and states the ATIS Code and QNH that he/she has obtained, then is there much point telling the pilot the runway in use and QNH when he/she calls for taxy?
Nowadays, Aberdeen seems to be one of the few airfields in the UK where this still happens. Providing the crew provide the correct ATIS and QNH details on start up then the ATCO just tells you the holding point to taxy to when taxy is requested. Saves a few seconds on the R/T!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,122
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From: uk
Mr Geezer,
Couldn't agree with you more.I give QNH on start and then ATC clearance on start of taxi.Most a/c copy it then and then get on with checks and departure briefing etc.But you won't heard that too often at ABZ,as I work with 3 other watches and I'm the only one that works that way..Just found it more logical and certainly helps keep ahead on the occasions it gets busy.
The Part2 says that the ATIS isn't to be used as a Departure ATIS ?? !! although there is a separate freq for that purpose.But if there is runway surface details on that then you need that for taking off,especially in snow and ice.
We confirm inbound a/c to copy the ATIS so why not outbounds?
Couldn't agree with you more.I give QNH on start and then ATC clearance on start of taxi.Most a/c copy it then and then get on with checks and departure briefing etc.But you won't heard that too often at ABZ,as I work with 3 other watches and I'm the only one that works that way..Just found it more logical and certainly helps keep ahead on the occasions it gets busy.
The Part2 says that the ATIS isn't to be used as a Departure ATIS ?? !! although there is a separate freq for that purpose.But if there is runway surface details on that then you need that for taking off,especially in snow and ice.
We confirm inbound a/c to copy the ATIS so why not outbounds?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 126
Likes: 1
From: Scotland
With so many intersection departures at ABZ I prefer to give the runway with taxi clearance, as it could save red faces at a later stage; besides it is a MATS Pt1 requirement
As far as giving the QNH is concerned, it is also a requirement that ATC (at any unit) verify that pilots have the correct setting before departure. This can be achieved if the pilots state the QNH with their start-up request, or given and acknowledged with taxi clearance. Stating the ATIS letter isn't enough as there is no way of checking that the QNH has been noted correctly.
Thow a Dyce, I had no idea that you were so non-standard. Report to the minor spanking room tomorrow, after the big breakfast!
As far as giving the QNH is concerned, it is also a requirement that ATC (at any unit) verify that pilots have the correct setting before departure. This can be achieved if the pilots state the QNH with their start-up request, or given and acknowledged with taxi clearance. Stating the ATIS letter isn't enough as there is no way of checking that the QNH has been noted correctly.
Thow a Dyce, I had no idea that you were so non-standard. Report to the minor spanking room tomorrow, after the big breakfast!
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
From: Hants, UK
'Climb When Instructed by Radar' and 'Request Level Change En Route' :
I seem to remember (but can't find the reference) that they made a difference to what happened if someone went radio fail.
I think one of them meant that they would climb straight to cruise level once past any restriction point (such as the end of a SID), and the other meant that they would try and leave CAS or stay at the initial cleared level.
Anybody able to put me right on that?
PS Another question for Scottish Controllers:
Why are some of you seemingly incapable of providing less than 15 miles between aircraft vectored southbound at FL310 on UN866? 5 is plenty!!
I seem to remember (but can't find the reference) that they made a difference to what happened if someone went radio fail.
I think one of them meant that they would climb straight to cruise level once past any restriction point (such as the end of a SID), and the other meant that they would try and leave CAS or stay at the initial cleared level.
Anybody able to put me right on that?
PS Another question for Scottish Controllers:
Why are some of you seemingly incapable of providing less than 15 miles between aircraft vectored southbound at FL310 on UN866? 5 is plenty!!
PPRuNe Bashaholic
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1997
Posts: 1,446
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From: The Peoples Alcoholic Republic of Jockistan
Why are some of you seemingly incapable of providing less than 15 miles between aircraft vectored southbound at FL310 on UN866? 5 is plenty!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Cyberspace
OK, time to retaliate.
Shouldn't Sectors 10 and 11 now be known as "The Wash", as Scottish Centre controls most of the North Sea ?
I think I will answer the Humber line as North Sea from now on.
As for the 15 miles, you won't get that from me, I am too scared of traffic coming northbound on UM604 at the same level.
Shouldn't Sectors 10 and 11 now be known as "The Wash", as Scottish Centre controls most of the North Sea ?
I think I will answer the Humber line as North Sea from now on.
As for the 15 miles, you won't get that from me, I am too scared of traffic coming northbound on UM604 at the same level.
I'm Just A Lawnmower
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
From: Over the hills and faraway
Why are some of you seemingly incapable of providing less than 15 miles between aircraft vectored southbound at FL310 on UN866? 5 is plenty!!
As for the Humber sector, I would like to offer in evidence the following:
Poxy little radar displays on large ranges - five miles seems awfuly close...
Until VERY recently, being unable to use less than ten miles separation until a few miles north of LARDI. (Due to the inadequacies of Claxby radar, now solved with the introduction of Cromer...) Getting them set up early was impossible.
The lack of usable space to the east makes a left turn tricky so turns to the right tend to be big ones.
Oh, and once I got two at FL 310 on parallel headings 5.5 miles apart. Perfect, until the bloody SMF went off just after I transferred them to Sector 10. Still don't know why...
Hopefully with Cromer now usable we will be able to go for about seven miles. Give us some decent displays and maybe we could go for five
