Heathrow approach question for a B744
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Heathrow approach question for a B744
Hello! I'm only (almost) a private pilot in the U.S. and fly small planes like the Cessna 152 but own an excellent flight simulator, PS1, which models the B744 quite nicely.
Aerowinx's PS1 web site
In its database from a few years ago, it has a STAR (not sure which one since I currently don't have any Heathrow approach charts...to be remedied) into EGLL 27R with a routing of BNN, D19BNN, D7.5, D4.0, RW27R. I'm sure the routing is probably different these days and dependent on other factors.
I'm just really curious how fast ATCOs working EGLL would typically request jets approaching 27R?
200 knots at the IAF, 185 at the turn to base leg? Something slower?
Any preferred approach route for an early morning rush from the transatlantic flights into 27R... like Misty One? Or is some other runway or STAR favoured for that period?
For the queue with a mixture of aircraft types (say, A300s/B737s and A340-600s/B744s), do you have everyone fly at a speed that all is capable of handling, or do you assign speeds for each individual aircraft dependent on what the plane can handle?
Thank you very much for any information or pointers to information.
Aerowinx's PS1 web site
In its database from a few years ago, it has a STAR (not sure which one since I currently don't have any Heathrow approach charts...to be remedied) into EGLL 27R with a routing of BNN, D19BNN, D7.5, D4.0, RW27R. I'm sure the routing is probably different these days and dependent on other factors.
I'm just really curious how fast ATCOs working EGLL would typically request jets approaching 27R?
200 knots at the IAF, 185 at the turn to base leg? Something slower?
Any preferred approach route for an early morning rush from the transatlantic flights into 27R... like Misty One? Or is some other runway or STAR favoured for that period?
For the queue with a mixture of aircraft types (say, A300s/B737s and A340-600s/B744s), do you have everyone fly at a speed that all is capable of handling, or do you assign speeds for each individual aircraft dependent on what the plane can handle?
Thank you very much for any information or pointers to information.
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LUV744
I am not sure that you wanted the answer to be specifically about 747-400s landing at LHR. They do land other places in the world <bg>.
I used to fly for UAL and now for China Airlines on the 744.
I always loved EGLL and do not get there any more. Maybe someday again if LHR opens up and anybody can fly there. WHo knows?
Most pilots would fly the 744 faster (and more fuel efficiently) if it weren't for ATC and lots of other airplanes. I am laughing when I say that (no rock throwing),but LHR is a very busy place and the controllers do a good job. But people who fly to LHR know that most of the time you get a customary one turn in the holding pattern! LHR has speed restrictions. I would say about half of the world's airports have speed restrictions written on the JEPP chart. The rest will tell you what they want you to do.
Some carriers are more specific than others on how they want their airplanes flown with speed and flaps. A 747 with less than an hour's fuel is a great glider and is hard to go down and slow down.
727s could be flown to the outer marker at 250 kts clean and still land,but the newer generation airplanes like the 777 and 747 can not be. So the numbers you had were quite reasonable,but slower than most people would fly if other airplanes were not an issue.
I am not sure that you wanted the answer to be specifically about 747-400s landing at LHR. They do land other places in the world <bg>.
I used to fly for UAL and now for China Airlines on the 744.
I always loved EGLL and do not get there any more. Maybe someday again if LHR opens up and anybody can fly there. WHo knows?
Most pilots would fly the 744 faster (and more fuel efficiently) if it weren't for ATC and lots of other airplanes. I am laughing when I say that (no rock throwing),but LHR is a very busy place and the controllers do a good job. But people who fly to LHR know that most of the time you get a customary one turn in the holding pattern! LHR has speed restrictions. I would say about half of the world's airports have speed restrictions written on the JEPP chart. The rest will tell you what they want you to do.
Some carriers are more specific than others on how they want their airplanes flown with speed and flaps. A 747 with less than an hour's fuel is a great glider and is hard to go down and slow down.
727s could be flown to the outer marker at 250 kts clean and still land,but the newer generation airplanes like the 777 and 747 can not be. So the numbers you had were quite reasonable,but slower than most people would fly if other airplanes were not an issue.
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Mr. Morehead --
That's interesting! (Your background) Thanks for sharing.
Makes sense (regarding flying the 744 faster if possible, but if not, it's an usual wait-one's-turn-in-the-queue, I take it.)
I found it particularly fascinating with respect to 727 vs 747 operation; I'm afraid I've only been on 727s as SLF although I did have a co-worker who used to be a 727 captain at a small operation years ago. No more 727 rides for me, either, since the various airlines in this area has shipped theirs to VCV. Alas.
So guess I'll have to wistfully dream of the days with an 8am departure and few paxs on, low weight, plenty of fuel, and a mischevious streak resulting in a rocket-like takeoff!
As an aside, I am indeed very appreciative of the fellows that posted in this thread. I've gotten the various STARs for EGLL downloaded as well as read up a bit more on EGLL operation. Everybody who's flown there always concurs on one thing: at least one trip 'round an hold!
That's interesting! (Your background) Thanks for sharing.
Makes sense (regarding flying the 744 faster if possible, but if not, it's an usual wait-one's-turn-in-the-queue, I take it.)
I found it particularly fascinating with respect to 727 vs 747 operation; I'm afraid I've only been on 727s as SLF although I did have a co-worker who used to be a 727 captain at a small operation years ago. No more 727 rides for me, either, since the various airlines in this area has shipped theirs to VCV. Alas.
So guess I'll have to wistfully dream of the days with an 8am departure and few paxs on, low weight, plenty of fuel, and a mischevious streak resulting in a rocket-like takeoff!
As an aside, I am indeed very appreciative of the fellows that posted in this thread. I've gotten the various STARs for EGLL downloaded as well as read up a bit more on EGLL operation. Everybody who's flown there always concurs on one thing: at least one trip 'round an hold!
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I don't think ANYBODY arrives at LHR at 0430 in any kind of airplane. They frown on that unless an emergency if I recall. You could arrive before 0600,but lost points or paid money to somebody so you tried to delay arrival.
On the 727, the speed brake on that airplane was probably the most effective on any airplane that I know of. It worked and the thing slowed. On the 727 you could only use speed brake with no flaps and the intial (was it 1 or 2?) was made as the speed brake was being retracted and you usually got a horn for 1-3 seconds.
JIMi
On the 727, the speed brake on that airplane was probably the most effective on any airplane that I know of. It worked and the thing slowed. On the 727 you could only use speed brake with no flaps and the intial (was it 1 or 2?) was made as the speed brake was being retracted and you usually got a horn for 1-3 seconds.
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"I don't think ANYBODY arrives at LHR at 0430 in any kind of airplane."
I'm sorry this is not true. First landing is allowed at 0432 - I've been there and no we didn't go round the hold! - and aircraft with night landing slots (before 0600) are allowed in obviously. The rush after 0600 is for all those without night landing slots and with fast flight times inbound it becomes a game to judge what time to arrive at the holding pattern to ensure the shortest delay.
ATB
I'm sorry this is not true. First landing is allowed at 0432 - I've been there and no we didn't go round the hold! - and aircraft with night landing slots (before 0600) are allowed in obviously. The rush after 0600 is for all those without night landing slots and with fast flight times inbound it becomes a game to judge what time to arrive at the holding pattern to ensure the shortest delay.
ATB
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ATB...thanks for the info. I certainly stand corrected. I thought 0600 was the "line" for us mortals. I was not aware of night lanind slots. How do you get one? Whisper in the Queen's ear?
JIM
JIM
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Solitare is correct.
Normally we have a number of jets, mainly departing from Oriental climates that arrive post 0600. Also, as with last week, somtimes horrendous delays during the days can cause jets to still be pitching up at silly times of the morning. And if we are in LVP's the night noise quota doesn't apply, so you pitch up and come straight in.
And Jim, some US carriers carry an exemption some mornings as well. Although it can get a little confusing for both pilots ATC who can and who can't land.
Normally we have a number of jets, mainly departing from Oriental climates that arrive post 0600. Also, as with last week, somtimes horrendous delays during the days can cause jets to still be pitching up at silly times of the morning. And if we are in LVP's the night noise quota doesn't apply, so you pitch up and come straight in.
And Jim, some US carriers carry an exemption some mornings as well. Although it can get a little confusing for both pilots ATC who can and who can't land.
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Jerricho and Alan...thanks...I recall that when we landed early, we got brownie points off and it could affect our ratings somewhere and maybe with the queen.
But the early morning flights were always a problem and getting in early actually hurt you!
JIM
But the early morning flights were always a problem and getting in early actually hurt you!
JIM
