Massive Delays ?
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250 et ARK
To satisfy your curiosity,SRATCOH with OPM monitoring(whilst although on trial,is followed),very much applies at ScACC 24/7,we are also now beginning to find our validation groupings a problem in rostering due in part to many of the symptons that you gave in your replies.
Happy New Year to all our readers.
To satisfy your curiosity,SRATCOH with OPM monitoring(whilst although on trial,is followed),very much applies at ScACC 24/7,we are also now beginning to find our validation groupings a problem in rostering due in part to many of the symptons that you gave in your replies.
Happy New Year to all our readers.
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250kts
If I'm not mistaken S33 was the old part of North Sea which came north. If this is so then we are talking literally hundreds of aircraft taken out of 10 and 11 and through Humber. On many occasions there have been over a hundred per night.
Nice to know you are kept up to date with our efforts to help you out.
Very little is re-routed through S33 to avoid S10/11 but I would be interested to see the evidence which suggests otherwise.
Nice to know you are kept up to date with our efforts to help you out.
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What will management tell...
"I am amazed that there seems to be a belief that management are thinking about explaining anything. They don't seem to be thinking that far ahead to me. The 'head in the sand' philosophy seems to apply as much now as ever. When delays come, as they are and will, they only need to satisfy the airlines, the gov't and especially the travelling public at times don't seem to know we even exist. 'Head in the sand'? you need look no further than the fact that NAVCANADA is picking up NATS atco's at an alarming rate and nothing is being done about it, especially at EGCC/MACC, in order to justify that statement. There is a belief that the unit may become untenable if the exodus continues without the ability to replenish. Believe me? nor do the managers.
Why are we as, what I consider us to be (unit differences put aside), some of the most valuable assets this country (before you say it...including Scotland,etc) has consistently treated like an expendable idiotic and second class workforce by a management which should have a greater economic value of what our input to our economies are. As posted 2 yrs ago, "Divided we fall"
Why are we as, what I consider us to be (unit differences put aside), some of the most valuable assets this country (before you say it...including Scotland,etc) has consistently treated like an expendable idiotic and second class workforce by a management which should have a greater economic value of what our input to our economies are. As posted 2 yrs ago, "Divided we fall"
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Dear 250 kts......Happy New Year.
Most delighted to do 2 full night shifts, that is what I am paid to do.
As for the posting south, I am certainly too old for that.
Not sure of the figures, but as FINDO stated, lots of traffic has been regularly re-routed to avoid LACC airspace at night.
I have already volunteered for the North Sea, I did my training at Bournemouth last January, prior to us at ScACC taking over the majority of it in March !
Most delighted to do 2 full night shifts, that is what I am paid to do.
As for the posting south, I am certainly too old for that.
Not sure of the figures, but as FINDO stated, lots of traffic has been regularly re-routed to avoid LACC airspace at night.
I have already volunteered for the North Sea, I did my training at Bournemouth last January, prior to us at ScACC taking over the majority of it in March !
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250kts
I can confirm what the others say. On several of my recent night shifts LACC has taken no traffic for ED and EH destinations. We have taken it all through our North Sea sectors. Seems to be on nights when the tracks are further North and we have very heavy traffic loadings.
Sectors filled to capacity at night ? Try our South West sector. TSF is around mid 40s and traffic will often exceed 55+ when the core tracks are 55 and 56 north.
I can confirm what the others say. On several of my recent night shifts LACC has taken no traffic for ED and EH destinations. We have taken it all through our North Sea sectors. Seems to be on nights when the tracks are further North and we have very heavy traffic loadings.
Sectors filled to capacity at night ? Try our South West sector. TSF is around mid 40s and traffic will often exceed 55+ when the core tracks are 55 and 56 north.
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A bit tetchy Nogbad 
I think the thread is just fine. What the little bit about airspace is saying is even if there are no AAVAs to keep sectors open then there are sometimes different ways of managing the same traffic so there are no MASSIVE DELAYS. These methods have developed in the last year and apparently gone un-noticed by some at LACC who are predicting choas.
Hence the postings are on topic.
I think the thread is just fine. What the little bit about airspace is saying is even if there are no AAVAs to keep sectors open then there are sometimes different ways of managing the same traffic so there are no MASSIVE DELAYS. These methods have developed in the last year and apparently gone un-noticed by some at LACC who are predicting choas.
Hence the postings are on topic.
Thread Starter
Yeah it was a bit OTT........I blame it on........
Anyway, you point conceded, but I would rather not have bitchy arguments thank you, if you get my drift. All it does is antagonise when it's not needed, after all we are all in the same boat.
I think, Findo, that your rosy glasses will become a bit tainted when the year wears on. In TC, for sure, no AAVA's will mean delays.....the massissivity (
) of them is yet to be seen.
And.....Happy New Year [
]
Anyway, you point conceded, but I would rather not have bitchy arguments thank you, if you get my drift. All it does is antagonise when it's not needed, after all we are all in the same boat.
I think, Findo, that your rosy glasses will become a bit tainted when the year wears on. In TC, for sure, no AAVA's will mean delays.....the massissivity (
) of them is yet to be seen.And.....Happy New Year [
]
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Yaffs, not too far off topic.
Night staffing is dependent on the requirements of the day watches for extra staff, courses to be undertaken on days off following nights/spins and covering known sickness. Not all the sector staff remaining will hold all the necessary validations for bandboxed operations or will have the full validations but only in one discipline, usually Planner.
A single validation will allow one ATCO to act as cover in the event the bandboxed sector is split, a Planner only ATCO can operate as a full member of the night team. Under these circumstances the Night staffing complies with the PSS and the duty staff can remain SCRATCOH compliant ……………until one of the “fully” qualified ATCOs goes sick. At that point the “partially” qualified ATCO may become a spare part and sectors get closed.
The problem is staffing rather than rostering. Resignations and retirements come from the ranks of the “fully” qualified, so this pool of controllers is shrinking. There is a limit of how many night shifts we can do within our contracted hours and a lot of us exceeded that limit last year. Nights are not popular and are arguably the most anti-social of all our shifts so spreading the pain is understandable.
Until we significantly replenish the numbers of “fully” valid ATCOs delays at night will continue.
Night staffing is dependent on the requirements of the day watches for extra staff, courses to be undertaken on days off following nights/spins and covering known sickness. Not all the sector staff remaining will hold all the necessary validations for bandboxed operations or will have the full validations but only in one discipline, usually Planner.
A single validation will allow one ATCO to act as cover in the event the bandboxed sector is split, a Planner only ATCO can operate as a full member of the night team. Under these circumstances the Night staffing complies with the PSS and the duty staff can remain SCRATCOH compliant ……………until one of the “fully” qualified ATCOs goes sick. At that point the “partially” qualified ATCO may become a spare part and sectors get closed.
The problem is staffing rather than rostering. Resignations and retirements come from the ranks of the “fully” qualified, so this pool of controllers is shrinking. There is a limit of how many night shifts we can do within our contracted hours and a lot of us exceeded that limit last year. Nights are not popular and are arguably the most anti-social of all our shifts so spreading the pain is understandable.
Until we significantly replenish the numbers of “fully” valid ATCOs delays at night will continue.
Panthera pardus puella
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cheers arkady - for one moment i had understood that the way night rostering was done meant that the sectors would be short of validations despite having the requisite number of bodies in! tis tricky to plan for sickness!
yaffs
yaffs
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RogerOut
Remember as an ATCO you are responible to be "fit" enough to exercise the privilege of your licence.It might be ok to go into work at night if you are going to be quiet but if you are at a Centre where there may be a couple of eastbound tracks you may have to start earning youre money at 0400.If you have an incident and you were not well you will get even more s
t heaped on you at the "informal" chat.People are not being jessies the are just trying to protect themselves and the travelling public.Of course you will always get some skivers at a unit but management should sort them out.
( this is not meant to start a my unit is busier than your unit tirade )
AyrTC
Remember as an ATCO you are responible to be "fit" enough to exercise the privilege of your licence.It might be ok to go into work at night if you are going to be quiet but if you are at a Centre where there may be a couple of eastbound tracks you may have to start earning youre money at 0400.If you have an incident and you were not well you will get even more s
t heaped on you at the "informal" chat.People are not being jessies the are just trying to protect themselves and the travelling public.Of course you will always get some skivers at a unit but management should sort them out.( this is not meant to start a my unit is busier than your unit tirade
)AyrTC
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RO
Very weak argument.
"So why are ATCOs so susceptible to "sickness" on the nightshifts then? I've been in this game 17 years now and haven't missed one,"
But what is your record like on Days? Do you come in for a night shift with a cold that susequently gets worse so you have to take the next four rostered day shifts off?
"you can't tell me someone who's been on unit for two years can have more nights shift off due to "sickness" than I've had for 17 years."
Unless they have done more night shifts in 2 years than you've done in 17.
Are you under 40? You could be, you may feel differently in a few years. Are you married, do you have kids or other responsibilities that will hinder you in the ideal preparation for a night shift?
I'm not trying to cast doubt on you own integrity, just trying to illustrate that each individual and their circumstances are too different for you to draw such sweeping conclusions.
Very weak argument.
"So why are ATCOs so susceptible to "sickness" on the nightshifts then? I've been in this game 17 years now and haven't missed one,"
But what is your record like on Days? Do you come in for a night shift with a cold that susequently gets worse so you have to take the next four rostered day shifts off?
"you can't tell me someone who's been on unit for two years can have more nights shift off due to "sickness" than I've had for 17 years."
Unless they have done more night shifts in 2 years than you've done in 17.
Are you under 40? You could be, you may feel differently in a few years. Are you married, do you have kids or other responsibilities that will hinder you in the ideal preparation for a night shift?
I'm not trying to cast doubt on you own integrity, just trying to illustrate that each individual and their circumstances are too different for you to draw such sweeping conclusions.
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Roger Out
How many times in your 17 years have you bravely gone into work when you shouldn't have?
Whilst I agree in Air Traffic we seem to have a fair share of malingerers (Lemsips) there are probably an equal amount of robust chaps like yourself who think it's a sign of bravado to come in whilst ill. Then they wonder why half of the watch go sick at some point within the next 2 or 3 weeks, because when I had that I came in.
Case point being December 1999 my Watch Manager came into work for 4 days running looking exceptionally ill before going sick for about a week with flu. This dedication to duty not only gave me the flu for the first time in my life, but, left me with asthma at the end of it.
Mind you, the only thing I thought about at the time, and now whenever I'm taking my puffer is, "At least he didn't let the team down".
Rant over
The Greebs
How many times in your 17 years have you bravely gone into work when you shouldn't have?
Whilst I agree in Air Traffic we seem to have a fair share of malingerers (Lemsips) there are probably an equal amount of robust chaps like yourself who think it's a sign of bravado to come in whilst ill. Then they wonder why half of the watch go sick at some point within the next 2 or 3 weeks, because when I had that I came in.
Case point being December 1999 my Watch Manager came into work for 4 days running looking exceptionally ill before going sick for about a week with flu. This dedication to duty not only gave me the flu for the first time in my life, but, left me with asthma at the end of it.
Mind you, the only thing I thought about at the time, and now whenever I'm taking my puffer is, "At least he didn't let the team down".
Rant over
The Greebs
mmmm.....Ohcirrej
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Greebs has a great point. How many people get p*ssed off when the person they are sitting next to is coughing and spluttering all over you? Would anybody actually have the balls to tuen around and say "Hey, dude's sick. Get him/her out of here!". And chances are the lurgie being shared is going to hit you during your days off as well. If you're sick - stay the hell away!
However, It does become easy to tell who the "dodgy divers" are on the watch. You know the one who checks the day sheets to see how many staff are in for the next day (which usually happens to be Weekend). Or you get the "set-up" dive with this as well..........check the day sheet, see how many staff are on, then towards the end of the shift suddenly has symptom over-load.
However, It does become easy to tell who the "dodgy divers" are on the watch. You know the one who checks the day sheets to see how many staff are in for the next day (which usually happens to be Weekend). Or you get the "set-up" dive with this as well..........check the day sheet, see how many staff are on, then towards the end of the shift suddenly has symptom over-load.
