"resume normal speed"
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"resume normal speed"
Just a quick question to the pilots out there.
When you have been given a speed to fly by a controller on the previous sector i.e. "speed 290kts or less" and the next controller does not require you on a speed and so gives the instruction "resume normal speed".
Do you take it to mean,
1. It does not matter what speed you fly the aircraft as long as you obey the speed limit point ( if following a STAR ) and 250kts below FL100
or
2. It does not matter what speed we fly and we can disregard the S.L.P. etc
When you have been given a speed to fly by a controller on the previous sector i.e. "speed 290kts or less" and the next controller does not require you on a speed and so gives the instruction "resume normal speed".
Do you take it to mean,
1. It does not matter what speed you fly the aircraft as long as you obey the speed limit point ( if following a STAR ) and 250kts below FL100
or
2. It does not matter what speed we fly and we can disregard the S.L.P. etc
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"resume normal speed" means the speed you would normally or have to fly if we had not intervened, ie. what you want up to the speed limit points, so answer 1 in your post.
"no speed restriction" is the phrase that means you can disregard any speed restrictions even SLP's as long as you are inside controlled airspace, ATC cannot lift the 250kts below FL100 outside CAS.
"no speed restriction" is the phrase that means you can disregard any speed restrictions even SLP's as long as you are inside controlled airspace, ATC cannot lift the 250kts below FL100 outside CAS.
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Inside CAS below FL100 ATC are permitted to instruct a/c "no speed restriction" and they can accelerate above 250kts if desired. Caution must be exercised with this practice to ensure that the a/c is still complying with the Noise Abaitment Procedures in place around many airfields.
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In my experience you have to tell the pilots what speed to fly regardless of the SLP. Like the rest of us when we drive our car they have little regard for speed limits
at times . As for normal speed that depends on the operator sometimes. I have been embarrassed on a number of occassions when pilots bring their speeds right back because the cabin crew are a bit behind. Some operators will not exceed 250kts till above 100, others will hit the gas. This doesnt happen often but please say when you do change your speed from normal operations or because of operator restrictions.
Speed control is a minefield be careful, take full control or dont play with it.
at times . As for normal speed that depends on the operator sometimes. I have been embarrassed on a number of occassions when pilots bring their speeds right back because the cabin crew are a bit behind. Some operators will not exceed 250kts till above 100, others will hit the gas. This doesnt happen often but please say when you do change your speed from normal operations or because of operator restrictions.Speed control is a minefield be careful, take full control or dont play with it.
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Personally, I am a little cautious in using "normal speed", especially in respect to SLP's. We could argue for hours about this, but I have found on a couple of occasions ambiguity arise.....does this mean adherence to the SLP's for STAR's/noise abatement, or what the pilot deems to be a normal speed for ROD/height restriction etc (like the threads seen here about 'give way' taxi instructions)
IMHO, I'm a big fan of saying "standard speeds" if I require adherence to SLPS, or no speed, where the driver could speed up to his heart's content (not to be told 10 miles down the track to reduce and enter the hold.....don't you just hate that!!!!)
IMHO, I'm a big fan of saying "standard speeds" if I require adherence to SLPS, or no speed, where the driver could speed up to his heart's content (not to be told 10 miles down the track to reduce and enter the hold.....don't you just hate that!!!!)
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If all you Uk trained people can remember the APR manual which states that "speed control is not a good substitute for good vectoring" then we should not have to use it. However in the real world I do. The only phrase I use is "no ATC speed restriction" which is only for inbound a/c when I know that they will not catch the one ahead. However, I experience many times that the en route centre do not apply speed control at all and when released to us they can be travelling at 350kts @ FL60. This can result in problems with our sequencing and landing order. I prefer to use my experience and skill to make sure that all no.2 a/c have the required spacing after no.1 has landed (I know this cannot be done at all times if you have a busy airport) but it keeps a lot of your skill in the job.
ILS 119.5
ILS 119.5
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Standardisation
Reading this post, the thing that stands out to me is all the advice about "what I like to do".
Suerly everyone should be doing what the book says (and hopefully everyone's books are the same
)? I am sick of the amount of hand-holding that is developing in this job. If everybody used the standard phrases, the pilots might have a chance of understanding what is wanted of them. At the moment it's "at this airport they mean this, in this country that means this" etc.
The speed thing crops up all the time. Why? Maybe it's exactly because of all the "what I like to do"........?
Then surely they (the pilot's) are breaking rules? Do you chip them, or the centre about it? Was their speed restriction cancelled? Was that a co-ord failure? Did the pilot not understand the standard phraseology that was used (because of all the "what I like to do" he had heard over the last 6 months)? Is there a problem with your hand-off procedure? What, with all your "experience and skill " did you do to prevent a recurrence of that situation?
Suerly everyone should be doing what the book says (and hopefully everyone's books are the same
)? I am sick of the amount of hand-holding that is developing in this job. If everybody used the standard phrases, the pilots might have a chance of understanding what is wanted of them. At the moment it's "at this airport they mean this, in this country that means this" etc.The speed thing crops up all the time. Why? Maybe it's exactly because of all the "what I like to do"........?
However, I experience many times that the en route centre do not apply speed control at all and when released to us they can be travelling at 350kts @ FL60.
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I agree with the first few responses that is "resume normal speed" is jus that, resume the speed you would be required to fly before ATC intervened. In a perfect world the pilot should then still adhere to the 250kt STAR speed restriction. The one I have heard used that I have a problem with is guys that say "resume desired speed" cos that one sounds to me like fly what speed you want till touch down, disregarding any speed restrictions.
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ILS119.5
You say
"However, I experience many times that the en route centre do not apply speed control at all and when released to us they can be travelling at 350kts @ FL60."
I refer you to your own post (the same post actually),
"If all you Uk trained people can remember the APR manual which states that "speed control is not a good substitute for good vectoring" then we should not have to use it."
So do you want them on headings or do you want them on speeds?
Even en-route controllers cannot read minds. If you are not happy with the presentation of the traffic, talk to the guys and gals responsible and try to be clear about what you want.
You say
"However, I experience many times that the en route centre do not apply speed control at all and when released to us they can be travelling at 350kts @ FL60."
I refer you to your own post (the same post actually),
"If all you Uk trained people can remember the APR manual which states that "speed control is not a good substitute for good vectoring" then we should not have to use it."
So do you want them on headings or do you want them on speeds?
Even en-route controllers cannot read minds. If you are not happy with the presentation of the traffic, talk to the guys and gals responsible and try to be clear about what you want.
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Greebson, I have no interaction with Class E airspace but do think, due to the unknown nature that can present itself, that the speed restriction is a good thing. It just gives the controller more time to spot unknown conflicting traffic and issue the avoiding action in good time.
The best people to answer that question however are the Scottish TMA controllers, anybody??
The best people to answer that question however are the Scottish TMA controllers, anybody??
