Sticklers for time...
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Sticklers for time...
had a recent experience with a small Class-D tower. Wondering if all small ATC is like this or not....
now I realize, ATC works very hard and depending on the day can be stressed out of their minds and I highly respect them for the job they do. NOw, that being said, story time.
I'm 10 miles out from the airport, I call them up, it's 10:52pm (watch set with airport time) I call up and say I'm in bound full-stop, yada yada. The guy acknowledges me and proceedes to tell me they close in 8 minutes. No pattern entry instructions, no nothing. So I figure I'll start making a base (as is standard procedure there - I fly there a lot) for the active runway as stated in the ATIS. I call him again at another usual checkpoint where they'll either clear us to land or advise of traffic or sequence number. Again he doesn't care and says "ok... fine, I'm closing in 5 minutes" I'm 2 minutes from touchdown, literally. so right before base I call again and ask if I'm going to get a clearance or or are they going to be uncontrolled by the time I touch down. The guy instead of answering me closes it right then in there -- Attn all pilots on XXX frequency, XXX tower is now closed and becomes Class-E uncontrolled airspace, yada yada yada. so I make my final CTAF call and land.
is there some other issue I don't know about that would be that much of a problem for him to clear me to land. then close???
now I realize, ATC works very hard and depending on the day can be stressed out of their minds and I highly respect them for the job they do. NOw, that being said, story time.
I'm 10 miles out from the airport, I call them up, it's 10:52pm (watch set with airport time) I call up and say I'm in bound full-stop, yada yada. The guy acknowledges me and proceedes to tell me they close in 8 minutes. No pattern entry instructions, no nothing. So I figure I'll start making a base (as is standard procedure there - I fly there a lot) for the active runway as stated in the ATIS. I call him again at another usual checkpoint where they'll either clear us to land or advise of traffic or sequence number. Again he doesn't care and says "ok... fine, I'm closing in 5 minutes" I'm 2 minutes from touchdown, literally. so right before base I call again and ask if I'm going to get a clearance or or are they going to be uncontrolled by the time I touch down. The guy instead of answering me closes it right then in there -- Attn all pilots on XXX frequency, XXX tower is now closed and becomes Class-E uncontrolled airspace, yada yada yada. so I make my final CTAF call and land.
is there some other issue I don't know about that would be that much of a problem for him to clear me to land. then close???
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Spudskier,
When I worked at a VFR tower that closed at night and someone called close to closing time we would acknowledge them, tell them of any other known traffic, and told them that we were preparing to close in X minutes. It is not that the controller doesn't want to stay open until you land, they legally are not allowed to.
The FAA frowns heavily on controllers that keep the facility open beyond the advertised time, I've seen a few controllers get chewed on for doing it. Unless there is an emergency the controller is not allowed to clear you to land after the tower is legally closed. Imagine yourself as a controller having to explain to the NTSB and or an attorney in court if something happened, why you cleared so and so to land after the control tower was legally supposed to be closed.
Mike
NATCA FWA
When I worked at a VFR tower that closed at night and someone called close to closing time we would acknowledge them, tell them of any other known traffic, and told them that we were preparing to close in X minutes. It is not that the controller doesn't want to stay open until you land, they legally are not allowed to.
The FAA frowns heavily on controllers that keep the facility open beyond the advertised time, I've seen a few controllers get chewed on for doing it. Unless there is an emergency the controller is not allowed to clear you to land after the tower is legally closed. Imagine yourself as a controller having to explain to the NTSB and or an attorney in court if something happened, why you cleared so and so to land after the control tower was legally supposed to be closed.
Mike
NATCA FWA
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Completely underatandable!
the guy just said he was closing in 8 minutes, did not advise me of any other traffic didn't even tell me how he'd like me to fly thje pattern (assuming there was traffic already in the pattern) so I could get in the flow with them. and definitely closed early as I was turning short final with at least 2 or 3 minutes to spare.
I can understand the legal aspect of it. and I can definitely understand wanting to get out of there after a long day, but a little common courtesy as long as he's on the freq anyway would have been nice. (traffic, pattern entry instruction, etc...)
the guy just said he was closing in 8 minutes, did not advise me of any other traffic didn't even tell me how he'd like me to fly thje pattern (assuming there was traffic already in the pattern) so I could get in the flow with them. and definitely closed early as I was turning short final with at least 2 or 3 minutes to spare.
I can understand the legal aspect of it. and I can definitely understand wanting to get out of there after a long day, but a little common courtesy as long as he's on the freq anyway would have been nice. (traffic, pattern entry instruction, etc...)
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Spudskier;
The controller could have told you pattern and runway at your discression, we will be closing at XXXX... No known traffic, and that would have been it...
I expect that they were busy doing the closing paper work and didn't give it the thought that they might have. Which tower was it????
regards
Scott H. Voigt
NATCA Southwest Region
Safety and Technology Chairman
The controller could have told you pattern and runway at your discression, we will be closing at XXXX... No known traffic, and that would have been it...
I expect that they were busy doing the closing paper work and didn't give it the thought that they might have. Which tower was it????
regards
Scott H. Voigt
NATCA Southwest Region
Safety and Technology Chairman
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At most airfields in the states, pilots have the ability to turn lights on and select a brightness level using clicks of the mic button on a given frequency, usually the CTAF frequency.
If only GA in this country was like the US.
If only GA in this country was like the US.
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absolutely in the states, only the tower closes, not the whole airfield. Lights are either on all the time or pilot operated by clicking the ptt radio button. different numbers of clicks on the CTAF for different light levels.
and I'm not sure if I should really give out the tower name... its a small class-d. One of the busiest class-Ds in the state... (hope this doesn't give it away, but it's a contract tower, not FAA)
unfortunately this lack of common courtesy is standard for this tower when certain controllers are on the clock. Mind you there are at least one or two controllers that are the greatest guys in the world up there, but there are one or two notorious controllers up there that make everyone's lives hellish.
just small things like forgetting he told you to hold short 10 minutes ago for something that landed 8 minutes ago, telling you to fly north, then east around the airport to land west when you called him up from well to the southwest. (there was no good reason to do that at the time), very curt/short fuse attitude. I've never met the guy, but I've talked to numerous regulars who fly out of the airport and they all say the same thing.
I don't want to come off as having a beef with ATC, I've dealt with a lot of good controllers and highly respect them and the job they do. I've been flying out of controlled airports since my first hour in a C152.
To those who know them in the states, I just wanna say kudos to the guys and girls in the Mansfield, Ohio tower. I fly through their airspace quite a bit and they have always been by far the most curteous and usually will go out of their way to help you despite the amazing amount of traffic they get. (not the same tower I was talking about earlier)
and I'm not sure if I should really give out the tower name... its a small class-d. One of the busiest class-Ds in the state... (hope this doesn't give it away, but it's a contract tower, not FAA)
unfortunately this lack of common courtesy is standard for this tower when certain controllers are on the clock. Mind you there are at least one or two controllers that are the greatest guys in the world up there, but there are one or two notorious controllers up there that make everyone's lives hellish.
just small things like forgetting he told you to hold short 10 minutes ago for something that landed 8 minutes ago, telling you to fly north, then east around the airport to land west when you called him up from well to the southwest. (there was no good reason to do that at the time), very curt/short fuse attitude. I've never met the guy, but I've talked to numerous regulars who fly out of the airport and they all say the same thing.
I don't want to come off as having a beef with ATC, I've dealt with a lot of good controllers and highly respect them and the job they do. I've been flying out of controlled airports since my first hour in a C152.
To those who know them in the states, I just wanna say kudos to the guys and girls in the Mansfield, Ohio tower. I fly through their airspace quite a bit and they have always been by far the most curteous and usually will go out of their way to help you despite the amazing amount of traffic they get. (not the same tower I was talking about earlier)
