Underground

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have just recently returned to Canada from overseas and am posting my experiences with Transport Canada on the new forum in Canada. www.underground.tc.ca

I suggest that everyone involved in Aviation read and think about what has transpired over the past several years between me, my company and Transport Canada Civil Aviation.

It just may give some of you things to worry about should you run afoul of a Government regulatory body, especially if you have done nothing wrong except refuse to be brutalized by a Government Aviation Inspector.

My last post can be found under General...the thread is ...Who are these people?


Chuck Ellsworth

[STC]

Yes. I agree. It is well worth reading if you want to laugh your ass off!

That site is full of slanderous BS and totally ignorant rantings of people who don't understand what they are talking about or others who are trying to make an issue of perceived abuse.

As far as posting, I would recommend steering clear of that forum. I wouldn't want to be associated with these guys in any way, shape or form.

Of course Chuck is the band leader with his melodramatic accounting of noting in particular. One day maybe he'll come right out and tell us all what exactly his beef with TC is. In the mean time we'll have to settle for the unsubstantiated slander!

This is better than "As the World Turns" but without the sex!

:}

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Thank you STC:

I was hoping someone would bring this thread back in use.

So now that you are back commenting on my posts in www.underground.tc.ca , how about answering a simple question.

Merlin Preuss and Robert Sincennes state very clearly that they agree with a letter written by the former Director General of Civil Aviation for Canada, Art LaFlamme. His statement was.

" Concerning your continued dissatisfaction towards Messrs. Nowzek and Murray, I find their handling of this matter has been quite satisfactory and they have my full support. "

Now here is the question STC, based on the findings of Transport Canada's inquiry into my allegations, that my allegations were in fact true, how come neither Merlin Preuss nor Robert Sincennes have reversed their positions? Remember these are two of the top people in Transport Canada , stating clearly that they approve of their subordinates missusing the power of their office.

This investigation was paid for by the taxpayer, it took almost five months to complete and the findings supported my allegations.

You are stating that I am slandering these people, hmmmm, lets see now, if what I am stating is in fact untrue then they should bring me in front of the courts to determine just where the truth lies.

Unless of course the truth has no place in the administration of how Transport Canada Civil Aviation regulates their client, the industry. What do you think STC? Is the truth of any real importance if as it would seem they have the power to do what ever they wish? Do you feel that denial of due process and vindictive missuse of a position of power within a body such as Transport Canada Civil Aviation is " Quite satisfactory " ????

Once again STC thank you for regenerating this thread and keeping everyones intrest up.......

Please do me a favour STC, give Merlin Preuss and Robert Sincennes a call and encourage them to respond to my allegations.

Chuck

[STC]

Chuck,

More words that don't establish exactly what the problem is. You should look up the term "circumstantial evidence".

Why is it cold in the winter even when its a sunny day?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Geese:

You seem to be unable to read, I think it is all outlined in my posts in the Underground.

But I feel that it is only fair for me to give you all the facts surrounding my problems with the Pacific Region Maintenance and Manufacturing, so e-mail me and I shall e-mail you the complete investigation and findings of Transport Canada's report. I have it in MS word as sent to me by the Acting Regional Director General, Transport Canada. The very person who ordered and paid for the report. Then again maybe the intervention of someone at his level in my problem with TC Civil Aviation is just another example of how unimportant this whole thing really is?

If you are not willing or interested in really finding out exactly what all this is about then of course your comments here have no validity.

Have a nice day STC. :O

Chuck

[rwm]

STC

Again your ignorance comes out in true form.

[STC]

rwm

Again, you contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion.....

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC:

If you really wish to assure that the Regulator in this case Civil Aviation are being managed by people that are morally acceptable, for instance people who will ensure that those under them adhere to the claims made in the Transport Canada Quality Assurance web site.

http://www.tc.ca/CivilAviation/QualityAssurance/implementation.htm

What are your thoughts regarding the position taken by Merlin Preuss, Director General Civil Aviation and Robert Sincennes, the head of Quality Assurance, wherein they both state that the actions of the Pacific Region Managers named in my complaint is " Quite satisfactory " and they both " fully support" their actions.

Are we to assume that the investigation paid for by tax payer dollars that found the named people in the Pacific Region did "not" in fact conduct their handling of my company in a fair manner and that it was proven they denied me due process, is just not worth bothering about?

Come on STC convince me that these people even come close to assuring that the claims made in the Quality Assurance web site are nothing more than B.S. to make it look like they really do assure we are treated fairly.

Hmmmm: I can't get the TC link to work. Anyhow Transport Canada has a Quality Assurance web site and if you wish to look at it go to the underground site and the link is on page one in "General" the thread is "who are these people? "

Chuck

[STC]

I have absolutely no desire to follow up on your claims Chuck. I did a bit of checking and pretty much anyone that I asked that knows you warned me to steer clear.

You seem to have built yourself quite a reputation. Whether or not TC was guilty of whatever you claim them to be guilty of, I'm convinced that the entire matter has been blown out of proportion by actions on both sides.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with TC that can't be addressed using the appropriate existing channels. However, the actions of a few shady characters in this industry bring out the worst in the regulators.

If TC pursued the wrong-doings of operators in this country as vigorously as you are pursuing this obsession you have with this one incident (whatever it is exactly), the industry would grind to a halt.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hey STC:

You are weasling round the issue.

But I'll give you a chance to show everyone just what a shady character I am.

Post one, just one instance of anything shady that I have done during my flying career, however STC remember it has to be something that you can show proof that it is a true acusation, not just the kind of crap you just posted.

Now you let all these nice people here on Pprune examine your description of me and we shall see who they believe.

Back to my origional question, do you think that the position taken by Merlin Preuss and Robert sincennes is acceptable for people in charge of Civil Aviation in Canada? Remember I have in writing that they approve of and support what the guys in Vancouver did. In spite of what the Transport Canada investigation found, which was quite straight foward, my allegations of wrongdoing by their top management in Vancouver was found to be true. They missused the power of their office.

Or is your position based on the assumption that I am such a shady character that the managers in the Pacific Region were forced to deny me the same rights as any other Canadian citizen applying for an Aviation Certificate?

By the way, any idea of what all this will eventually cost TC to rectify their actions? Beause even you must be bright enough to figure out this is going to be expensive for TC.

This was not just some little missunderstanding by their top guys in Vancouver, it was a deliberate well thought out action that took months for them to financially ruin my business rather than admit they had made a mistake in the very beginning. What makes this incredible is the fact that the top guys in Ottawa will not reverse their decision to back these guys in Vancouver.

Rather they just let guys like you post on a world wide site like Pprune and post garbage like you do that just keeps this front and center. ...yup you are really making Transport Canada look good. And you are really making the Ottawa guys look even better.

Oh, by the way STC, I followed the proper proceedures when I requested that Transport Canada investigate my allegations of wrongdoing by theVancouver Managers that were named in the complaint, the record is very clear on that issue.

I would like to make another little comment STC, I am quite open about who I am, I feel secure enough in going public with my allegations against some of TC's people that I have no problem with anyone on earth knowing who I am. In fact I bet there are quite a few readng this even in England who know me personally.

What does that say about me? Shady??? naw I don't think so.

Who are you?

Chuck Ellsworth

[rwm]

And again STC you do nothing but try to stir up sh!t. P!ss off and let Chuck have his day.

I hope Chuck ends up getting to the bottom of his plight, and others will not have to go through the problems he has. That is what this is all about.

There is no need for you to go on about this issue. There are always going to be people in a position of authority trying to exploit it, and there are always going to be people who are on the recieving end.

So STC give this badgering up, quit stirring up things that you have no first hand knowledge of. If you ever had a problem in your career that you couldn't resolve, due to issues beyond your control, you would then understand what Chuck is saying, and why he is saying it.

As I have posted before, I have had a run in with a TC Nazi, and it has upset me. But I do not think that all the regulators are bad. Just the one I had a problem with. Talk to almost anyone in the industry, and you will find out that at one time or another they had a disagreement with a regulator over some issue. This industry is safe because of the people in the industry. Everyone must work together to ensure the safety of our industry. But when it comes to a regulator using his/her power to manipulate your career, that is not in the best interest of the industry.

What do you contibute to this discussion STC? You have said that you don't want to get to the bottom of the issue that Chuck has with TC, so why must you continue to hurl insults to a man that you don't know, about an issue you have no knowledge?

Grow up STC.

[STC]

This industry is safe because of the people in the industry.

That's a joke. If it wasn't for TC, we would have many many more instances of accidents attributed to shady operators and their will to make money at the expense of safety.

Just look at the airworthiness authority in most African and South American countries and the corresponding safety records.

Many who have run-ins with TC just don't make an effort to understand the regulations. Just look at the majority of posts on the "Underground". There's one about the outrage one guy feels that TCCA can revoke a license. That person needs to look up "license" in the dictionary, then review the CARS.

Then there's Phil Lister, launching personal attacks on a particular MDM because of some bad experience he had. Based on Phil's posts I am confident that it was Phil's ignorance that led to his difficulty. More evidence of this is his attack on CAMC. An organisation that really has very little to do with TC. And even OSH gets slagged!

One of the best, most entertaining posts is one from AVT007 who tells the world that TCCA inspections are a joke.....because the airline he works for has too much warning and hides all the dangerous stuff before the inspectors show up! Hilarious!

The "underground" is full of clowns that don't understand the regulations and are frustrated by the processes that they fear because they don't understand them.

It's always fun to rise up against a foe...even if it's all in your head. So keep it up. The "Underground" continues to be a source of enjoyment for me. I wish there was more activity though. I could use a good laugh!

[VooDoo222]

Hmmmm....I would venture a bet and say STC is employeed by Transport Canada. Note the letters "TC" in his user name and his vigorous defense of Transport Canada. Maybe a wannabe pilot who never made it a one and now works for TC ?? How bout it STC.....tell us who you are.

[STC]

Nope. Not a TC employee. Vigorous defense? I'm not defending TC. Just laughing at the clowns who post in the "underground"!



Note the letters "VD" in your name VooDoo222. Does it suggest any underlying conditions we (or potential mates) should know about?

;)

[VooDoo222]

Good come-back dopey. I still think you're a TC employee. If you ever have the balls to one day tell us who you are then maybe you can prove me wrong. I doubt that will ever happen cuz it appears you have no balls

[STC]

VD,

No balls? What kind of talk is that? I wonder what the women in this forum think of remarks like that. Did you ever stop to think I might be a woman and I in fact have never had balls?

:}

Even though I am not a TC employee, I don't see what difference that would make. Do you assume that all TC employees are bad? Or inept? Do you therefore assume that everyone in the industry outside TC are honest and and intelligent?

You're just about as funny as the guys on the "underground". Maybe you should post a few comments on there!

:ok:

[Chuck Ellsworth]

There was someone posting under the name of Airplay on several other forums.

STC seems to be either the same person or an exact clone thereof.

Just a cursory reading of his posts will show that he is a windup artist who just likes to push peoples buttons.

However he does entertain and also keeps subjects going.

As to the quality of his claims and comments....well just read his past posts and I'm sure the pattern will be obvious, he is not credible, period.

Would I personally wish to associate with him???? or work with him????

Chuck Ellsworth

[STC]

Would I personally wish to associate with him???? or work with him????

Thanks for raising the questions Chuckie. I sincerely hope your answer is no.

Just for the record, based on what I have learned, I have absolutely no desire to be associated with Charles (Chuck) Ellsworth. (Beyond entertainment purposes)


:p

[pigboat]

Chuck, have the boys ferried NJF to Blighty yet?
If they decide to come through here, let me know and I'll see if I can get a fuel price.

[rwm]

Well STC have you ever looked at some of the people that do maintenance or fly a/c in third world countries? Most are illiterate and dumber than even you. I have, because I have worked in a few third world countries.

As I posted before it is because of the people in our industry that makes it safe. I include regulators and the guy who sweeps the floor in the people of this industry. But I must make mention that when I talk about safety in our industry, I refer to western world operations.

Back to the topic, I think the underground site is a good thing for people to voice concerns over their industry without fear of repercusions from the regulators or their employers.

It is monkeys like you STC that there are problems in the industry. Your lack of understanding or interest of getting to the bottom of a problem is the problem. As to your lack of balls, I must agree that you don't have any balls. As to if you have testicles, I really don't care, as ignorance and stupidity are gender neutral.

Again I say grow up you peanut brained nitt witt.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hi Pigboat:

NJF suffered an enging failure during the flight test.

I was in London at the time so am only going by what I have been told, seems the master rod bearing failed.

They now have a new engine on and are awaiting the paperwork to be approved.

I sure feel sorry for the guys at Plane Sailing because they really have had more than their share of problems with that airplane.

When I ferried it from St Thomas to Nanaimo about six years ago it was a really good running PBY, since then they have poured a fortune into it and it is still sitting in Nanaimo.

By the way it has the most modern Instrument panel of any PBY ever, HSI, RMI, Garmin 430 and Garmin 530 plus a stand alone DME to meet Eurocontrol requirements. All in all it is quite a nice airplane and when the paper work is done it should be on its way to England........

I of course am not going with it as I promised my dog that I would never, never ever take on another transoceanic contract....screw it I've had enough.

I'll let you know when they are ready for the flight.

Chuck

[STC]

Well STC have you ever looked at some of the people that do maintenance or fly a/c in third world countries? Most are illiterate and dumber than even you.

Although I don't consider myself "dumb" I am aware that you do. I agree however that people who do maintenance in third world countries are much less capable than their counterparts in the US and Canada. And that's because we are regulated far more effectively. Who the hell do you think sets the standards for AMEs here in Canada? The industry??? HAHAHAHAAH

Back to the topic, I think the underground site is a good thing for people to voice concerns over their industry without fear of repercusions from the regulators or their employers.

Thats my whole point. The "underground" might be a good venue to discuss problems. Unfortunately its full of personal attacks, rants, and uninformed ridiculous complaints. People in there even go after entities that have nothing to do with TC!

Again I say grow up you peanut brained nitt witt.

You're just full of the kiddie insults aren't you rwm. Try to grow up and show a little restraint in these forums. Pretend that you weren't trained in third world countries.

Chuck,

What's a "Garmin 450"??

[Duke Elegant]

Hey Chuck! You horrible little man....

Are you battling TC still?

Ya coulda knocked me down with a feather....:cool:

[Chuck Ellsworth]

How you doin Duke!!

Yeh I'm still at it, they owe me a lot of money and I fully intend to collect.

When are you coming over for some more flying training?

Your stories will be even better after I finish training you how to "really" fly...... Just imagine how the troops would enjoy your stories after they found out that you learned from me>>>>

Take care mate...

Chuck

[rwm]

Well STC I was not trained in third world counrties, and nor am I third world. I have read some of your other posts, and have found out that you have washed out as an engineer, and now just try to draw pretty pictures for the industry. What a shame, because what the industry needs is someone that understands maintaining a/c, and under a bit of pressure. You obviously failed at both aspects, and now just decide to spend your time tossing insults to people who have made a mark , and a reputable, dependable mark in the industry.

So what kind of bodge job do I have to thank to you?

The best thing that could happen to you is a slip in the shower, and a good crack on the head. Hopefully it would be the end to you and your pathetic retoric.

Oh shut up STC

Oh by the way STC, the third world has a good way of dealing with people like you. I don't think you would last long. And it would most likely be painfull.

[Ralph Cramden]

rmw...I'm afraid STC is pulling your chain for it's own perverse amusement. He/she/it is the type who enjoys pulling the wings of butterflies and setting fire to stay cats. The one thing he/she/it can't stand is to be ignored. From he/she/it's remarks I find it difficult to believe he/she/it is even in aviation.

[pigboat]

Ok Chuck thanks. The window of opportunity is starting to narrow a bit for the ferry. That sounds like a great machine.:ok:

[STC]

rwm,

Lots of amusing rhetoric. Again it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. And your assumptions are far from accurate.

But....I find one of your statements interesting and somewhat relevent, although I'm sure you don't realize it:

Oh by the way STC, the third world has a good way of dealing with people like you. I don't think you would last long. And it would most likely be painfull.

This implies that we have it much better here than in third world countries that lack regulation. I agree!

Regulation makes aviation safe.

By the way, I checked your posts too. As far as I can tell, you're a (quote) "piano player in a whore house."

Ralphy boy!

I don't post solely for amusement. If your "chain" gets "pulled" by what I write, too bad! It doesn't detract from the message nor does it invalidate my observations. It merely enforces my viewpoint that there are alot of people in the industry who just don't understand the role of regulation and are more interested in grandstanding than they are in safety.

I try to keep my accusations very general. I try to stay away from personal insults. That sort of thing tends to erode integrity. So when I make the general statement about "clowns" on the underground, its easy to figure out who the clowns (and potential clowns) are by the retaliatory insults.

So....if you have something valuable to add to the discussion, please be my guest. Otherwise I have no desire to lob insults back and forth.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I started this thread to allow the industry to examine how a few of Transport Canada's regulators pervert the regulation of our industry.

My posts are made backed up by provable documentation supported by Transport Canada's own investigation into my allegations against named individuals.

It is also a fact that I use my real name and run the risk of finding myself at the wrong end of a legal problem with the regulator if in fact my claims are proven to be untrue.

We are allowing a viscous windup artist posting under the name STC to hijack this discussion and blur the lines to the point that the core subject is becomming irrelevant.

Don't play his game, ignore him / her / it.

Chuck E.

[rwm]

Regulations don't make aviation safe by themselves. The regulations are followed by people in the industry who make the industry safe. I police the idustry by ensuring I set a good example by following the regulations, and ensuring that my fellow coworkers don't go down the path of complacency. It is not my fear of the regulations, but my professionalism.

Now STC if you had ever been to the third world, you would know that they all have regulations, and are based on either the FAA or CAA/JAA. the difference is the people that do the work are mainly illiterate, or just don't have any professionalism.

As to the intended topic of this thread, it is to point out that there may be some of the regulators that may put a bit of their own personal predjudices into the mix of things, and that is not in any way shape or form making the industry safe. And if and when the individuals involved in the problem sort this issue out, you will have people that have felt wronged, and people that feel they were right to do the wronging. I have felt this in my life, and I got a letter from the RDG telling me that I may have been wronged, but the regulations have changed, and it is no longer their problem. So I was vindicated a bit, but still it has affected my career, and has made me aware that not all the regulators are respectable people. Do I feel that TC is a bad organization? Absolutly not, just the idividuals that have wronged me. I do have faith in the industry, and I feel that anything that gives people in the industry an open venue to talk about the industry is a good thing. I do like the underground sight for this reason. Do I feel that everything in it is gospel? No, same as I don't take everything in this sight as gospel. But the underground is Canadian, and it keeps me a bit in touch with home.

[STC]

rwm,

Now there's a good post!

:)

I don't agree with it 100% but you make some good points. The "underground" website has the potential to solve alot of problems. Its just hard to weed out the BS from relevant stuff in my opinon.

Cheers.

[rwm]

Finaly we can agree.


cheers

[Phil Lister]

Quote from STC..

"Nope. Not a TC employee. Vigorous defense? I'm not defending TC. Just laughing at the clowns who post in the "underground"!"

Hey STC... Are you laughing at yourself??? Last I checked you were one of the clowns who was posting....

By the way.. I do like the red nose and floppy shoes that you wear... very becoming...

[STC]

Phil,

I have never posted to the "underground". You might have seen my moniker on the "last visitors" line at the bottom of the main page. I have visited the site often to read some of your comedy bits.

First off, our licence is so easy to get it is rediculous.

HAHAHAHAHA....that's awesome. I can see that spelling isn't a pre-requisite to obtaining a license!

[Phil Lister]

Well STC,

I guess you've proved that you don't qualify for a "LICENCE" because I've got mine in front of me and it shows that I do in fact know how to spell...

Do your research before you try to trash someone little person..

Just remember, if you play with the bull, you might get the horn..

What a goof........:yuk:

Phil

[STC]

Actually Phil, "licence" is an alternate spelling for "license".

Do your research before you try to trash someone little person..

Good advice DF. Maybe you should consider it next time YOU decide to trash someone!

Just remember, if you play with the bull, you might get the horn

What the hell does that mean? HAHAHAHAHA....

I shouldn't complain. The more time you spend spreading the "bull" on PPRUNE the less time you spend endagering people's lives with your "rediculous licence".

:rolleyes:

By the way, the skull and cross bones were a nice touch. I can just imagine your red little face all scrunched up and pissed-off while you were responding!

[VooDoo222]

STC, you're a waste of good human skin.

"just remember if you play with the bull you might get the horn"...what part of that don't you understand?

You seem to have some trouble spelling yourself.."endagering".....rediculous?

Now get back to work before I tell your boss that you're making Tansport Canada employees look like idiots again.

Awwwww man...
I made a spelling error. Oh well, I'm sure that TC guy will make an issue outa that won't ya STC. Can't wait to hear what the dumb sh$$ has to say next.....it's good entertainment.

[STC]

Hey VD,

Phil chose to take a shot at me, so he's suffering the consequences of writing before he thinks.

I don't wish to include you in this battle of wits as its obvious you're not armed!

:hmm:

By the way bubba, Phil used the mis-spelled word "rediculous" in his post before he corrected it. I was just poking fun at him by repeating it.

Of course it doesn't make sense since he changed his post, but what the heck. It made me laugh for a bit.

:}

[bearcat88]

I think you all should lighten up a little. Telling someone to "piss off" says a lot about the author and little about the recipient.:bored:

[STC]

Bearcat,

Who told anyone to "piss off"?? I don't see an example of that anywhere in this thread.

Tells me alot about the reader....


:O

The "underground" seems to have lost a couple of logos on it's main page. Did they bow to pressure from the government's lawyers???

:p

[Phil Lister]

You know, STC.. It must be nice to live in your perfect little world with your rosy sunglasses on.

Is it the drugs that the doctor gives you or are you this way naturally? I really think you have some issues that need dealing with if this is you without drugs.

Maybe by trashing others you are making up for your own inadequacies, after all, most of us know that people who are inadequate quite often will try to make themselves look better by twisting things to make others look bad so they can look better.

If you have nothing better to do than to come on here and stir up the crap, then you are, in fact, a very sad individual and I for one feel sorry for you.

If you think I will stoop to your level and get into some stupid debate with you, then you are sadly confused.

Beak off all you want, the rest of us will just consider the source.

Phil:rolleyes:

[STC]

Phil?

Read the posts, and then re-read your last post. And then figure out who "stirs up the crap".

Then go to the "underground" and check out that post where you trash an MDM on the west coast using his initials - A very despicable personal attack if I ever saw one. The guy doesn’t even work for TC. Should we use the “underground” to trash AMEs or flight attendants or pilots too? It seems that forum is used to trash just about everything loosely tied to aviation. You even manage to trash CAMC.

Then there’s your story about vandalizing a car belonging to an Industry Canada rep. Just good clean fun huh? What division of TC does Industry Canada belong to?

Mister Lister, you need another outlet for your anger other than slandering people with uninformed, ill thought out rhetoric.

I stand by my opinion of the “underground” forum and you certainly help validate my opinion every time you post.

[winston the 11]

I think STC is a Troll and really enjoying
him/herself.
Go to http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
to see what I mean.:rolleyes:

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Yes Winston I believe you are right.

What is your opinion of a web site such as Underground.tc?

Chuck

[STC]

Easy Winston!

I didn't sound the "dumbass" alert!

:O

Now here's the funny part! You are a troll by definition if you read the AOL site carefully. Calling me a troll in an open forum can incite "arguments" and "upset" me. And I'm sure I won't be able to make you feel "remorse" for what you've called me!

And then to make matters worse....you do exactly the opposite of what the AOL recommends for dealing with "Trolls". You don't ignore me!

Winston! Don't be a troll man!

And if you have anything valuable to add to the dicussion please do. If all you have is some silly cutesy internet label you want to try apply, don't bother.....

[winston the 11]

I'm so flattered that you think I'm
cute!;)

[Phil Lister]

STC

You should switch to decaf...

Man, what a pitifull person you are if you have all my posts memorized.

Just so you can figure it out, go look up what MD-M stands for and who they represent!! Then tell me why a complaint against one should not be on the underground site.

As you mentioned to winston.....
if you have anything valuable to add to the dicussion please do

Other than that get a life and quit p!ss!ing people off!!!

Phil

[STC]

Phil,

Nice to see you sobered up again and crawled out from under your rock....or do trolls like you live under a bridge like the story book says?

I know what an MDM is. The point was that you used the underground site to launch a very personal attack on a guy who essentially is an AME with some direct delegation powers to sign a C of A. Definitely NOT a TC employee. No more than you are.

You didn't even explain why he was so bad. Its not exactly constructive to just slam people in a public forum by dropping names (or easily identifiable initials in this case) with no substantiation or proof.

If I am pitiful for memorizing your posts, then what are you for writing such drivel?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC :

I started this thread to bring to the attention of readers of pprune that the underground site was availiable for the industry to share porblems that we may have with TC.

Do you still think that my allegations against certain named TC officials is drivel ?

Chuck Ellsworth. (My real name )

[STC]

Chuck, unless you are Phil Lister, my latest comments don't apply to you. I think that was made pretty clear.

Personally speaking I think you have a much better head on your shoulders than Phil. At least you bring discussion to the forum. Phil just has silly personal attacks that aren't relevant to the topic.

Do I think your "allegations against certain named TC officials is drivel." ??? Perhaps "drivel" is too subjective a term. I consider it more like "grandstanding" or maybe "slander".

By the way, why are you so anxious to know who I am? Not only is this an anonymous forum, its the INTERNET! Am I supposed to believe you're Charles Ellsworth, just because you typed it?

If some guy posted as the David Collenette on the "underground" would you take his posts as the real thing?

Maybe you are Charles Ellsworth. Maybe you're not. I don't really care. I'm discussing topics with faceless internet entities, and that's fine with me.

As far as Phil is concerned, its probably better that I don't meet him. It might make me afraid to fly!

:}

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC:

First off I am quite well known by a lot of Brits that read pprune, and I can assure you that I am Chuck Ellsworth. I would not be at all suprised if several confirm they know me.

Slander is spoken, lible is written.

I have made written allagations about some TC officials in

www.underground.tc.ca

Nothing would make me happier than for one or all of them to charge me with lible.

But they don't have the courage to take this in front of a Federal Court.

Any idea of why STC?

Hint, I can assure you they ( TC ) read these forums and you can bet they know how to find me.

Chuck Ellsworth

[STC]

I see you watch Columbo! That's a common statement but not entirely correct. Slander can be contained in written form. Here's a definition from the dictionary:

Slander:

1) Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.

2) A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

I must also offer a correction for you.....slander may be spoken, but Libel isn't spelled "lible".

So a bunch of British people know you. Good for you! A bunch of people from Newfoundland know ME! It still doesn't prove anything nor does it interest me. Like I said, I don't care who you "actually" are....

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC :

Does ensuring accountability for wrongdoing by any TC official interest you?

Or do you feel that they should be unacountable and allowed to deny their clients the right to due process?

C.E.

[STC]

Does ensuring accountability for wrongdoing by any TC official interest you?

Or do you feel that they should be unacountable and allowed to deny their clients the right to due process?

Silly question…but I’ll answer it.

Obviously I feel ANYONE should be accountable and responsible for their actions. I further feel that in this country nobody should be denied due process.

I also understand that everyone in the industry and TC are only human. They will treat you like you treat them. Your brand of grandstanding does more harm than good in my opinion.

[Phil Lister]

STC...

Obviously I feel ANYONE should be accountable and responsible for their actions. I further feel that in this country nobody should be denied due process.

If you really believe this, then you will understand my reasoning for mentioning the MD-M..

You can only have it one way, either you agree with what you have obviously said or you can disagree..

We don't have to fight about things.. Just read what you have written..

BTW, your insinuations that I am Chuck really p!ssed me off... First off, I'm taller and second off, I can carry on a conversation without using a swear word... ;)

Phil

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Phil:

It would not matter what we write, STC will twist things to his/her own slant.

Anyone who does not understand that exposing wrongdoing by our TC officials is fair and necessary is an enabler.

By the way STC thinks my posts are superior to yours, and you are also fatter than me. :D

Do you know anything about the group of west coast operators that are meeting with Dave Nowzek and his group on thursday at 800 Burrard?

Seems the region is not treating the operators fairly.... and they are finally banding together to seek changes.

They should start with several of the regional managers, get rid of them. I'll vote to start with Dave....and Richard...and Keith.

Chuck

[STC]

Phil,

Due process is a much different thing than potential slander or libel.

Let's say for instance I had a bad run experience with you as an AME Phil. If I went on a public forum and said: (pretend your real name is Phil Lister) "Boy that Phil Lister is a crook. He doesn't know how to fix an airplane and he's always drunk."

Wouldn't you agree that you would have something to say about that?

As I've mentioned before, the underground had good intentions, but its mired in personal one-sided attacks and uninformed opinions. Are there people on the "underground" looking for "due process"? Not so much.....

[Phil Lister]

You know STC, myself, like anyone else who knows you would just laugh and consider the source....

As for Chucks comments, I will admit that I do have a few pounds on him, but I don't know what the meeting is all about... I just spent the weekend with one of the operators and he didn't say anything to me about it..

Phil

[STC]

I see the comedy duo of "Chuck and Phil" are trying to revive interest in the "Underground" by re-iterating the same old TC name trashing.

And Chuck (who is normally the straight man) asks the question "Why isn't Robert Sincennes reacting to my posts". Gee. Could it be because you trash his name in a public internet forum? Or maybe he's too busy developing his lawsuit against you.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

well, well, well:

My, my our internet troll is still looking for public attention.

OK STC here, enjoy this.

There is a wide gap between trashing someone and relating true facts STC.

Robert Sincennes is a public servant working for Transport Canada. Anyone wishing to understand what Robert Sincennes's duty to us the aviation industry is, needs only to read the Transport Canada "Quality Assurance" web site.

My dissatisfaction with Robert Sincennes is really quite simple, his handling of my file has not met my expectations of what I had been led to believe he would do had he only followed the claims regarding the function of "Quality Assurance" he is the top official of that department.

In that he is the top official I find it incredible that he still fully backs the actions of the Transport Canada managers named in TC file #5015-12391 in their handling of my company.

The Transport Canada so called " independent" four month long investigation paid for by us the taxpayers found my allegations regarding the named officials to be true, it also found I was denied due process, among other findings regarding the actions of named officials.

For Robert Sincennes to stand by the origional findings that these people acted " Quite satisfactory " and has the full backing of the Director General Civil Aviation should make any person involved in aviation wonder just what this guy is doing. If what is contained in file # 5015-12391 is the accepted way for TC officials to conduct their handling of their clients then the sooner Robert gets this into court so the public can examine their "Quality Assurance" the better it will be.

Not to mention he made a commitment to me in writing and reneged on that commitment.

Now if Robert wishes to sue me, I just can't wait to get in front of a Federal Court and defend myself.


STC, one question.

Why are you defending a political apointee in Government without any direct knowledge of the facts surrounding the issues?


Chuck Ellsworth

[STC]

Why are you defending a political apointee in Government without any direct knowledge of the facts surrounding the issues?

Why are you publically trashing said Government "apointee" without providing facts surrounding the issues?

I could talk trash about anyone all day without providing proof but it would be immoral and misleading in my opinion.

So far I got one guy telling me how bad Robert Sincennes is but not telling me why....

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC:

I don't for a moment believe that you are to dense to have figured out why I am discussing Robert Sincennes on a world wide forum.

Like all trolls you just need to argue, regardless of how shallow your position.

However if you are trying to make Robert Sincennes look good I bet he wishes you would just quit.

Thanks to you more and more poople are wondering about Robert Sincennes.

Or to put it another way STC, if Robert and his minions in Ottawa figured they could sue me why don't they? Could it be the truth is not actionable, even by powerful Government officials?

Chuck Ellsworth

[STC]

As I said before Chuck, I don't have enough information to make such an assessment. Are you apprehensive about releasing the details of the famous "file #5015-12391"??

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC:

Nothing would please me more than having the file available for the public to read.

However there is a logistical and manual problem involved , there are close to three hundred pages of documentation and even the most inqusitive here on the internet would not be likely to wade through that much reading.

Soon I will post the McNeal report that was ordered by the ARDG, that is only around twenty pages of reading.

The bottom line is I can show that several Pacific Region top officials missused their office and I have compelling evidence that they not only denied me due process for no reason other than protecting an Inspector that I asked for the removal of, but they admit after it was all over that the Inspector should have been removed immediately. And even more troubling for TC is that there is compelling evidence several of these named individuals are untrustworthy.

Soon, STC I will be in a position to share all the file and everything else. But first I must finish a proof of claim process with the ARDG regarding errors in the McNeal report.

If you could read the correspondence between myself and Robert Sincennes over the past couple of years I am sure you would be taking a completly different position on this.

Chuck Ellsworth

[Phil Lister]

Chuck

Don't get yourself wound up by a fool like this (STC). He/She (and we're sure it doesn't know which to go by) is just trying to get you wound up. It's obvious by the posts that this person reads to much and has no real experience. If they did, they would understand a little better.

I'm sure the rest of us would wish you the best in your endeavour and be happy that the world is not run by STC's....

Phil

[STC]

If you could read the correspondence between myself and Robert Sincennes over the past couple of years I am sure you would be taking a completly different position on this.

There you go.....

Like I said, there is not enough information about your case to determine who is right and who is wrong. Therefore its impossible to answer your question:

Why are you defending a political apointee in Government without any direct knowledge of the facts surrounding the issues?

Phil,

Go back under your rock. You've proven by your posts who the "fool" is....

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC :

No one person could possibly be as stupid as you appear to be when you make statements such as there is not enough information to determine who is right and who is wrong.

So just in case you are one of those unusual idiots that can communicate in writing in what on the surface appears to be normal, but is unable to comprehend reading what someone else writes I have a suggestion.

Find any ten year old child, and open www.underground.tc.ca
have the child read " all " the posts that I have written ( There are several in different threads ) and then sit with the child and allow it to explain to you what happened when I went to Robert Sincennes for assistance as outlined in his "Quality Assurance" instructions on laying a complaint against any TC department or official.


If you still have trouble comprehending the signifigance of the " assistance " that I received from Robert Sincennes ask the child one question, here is the question.

"Do you think that Chuck would have been better off if he had been dealing with common street crimminals?"

Let me know the childs answer STC. :ok:

Anyone wishing to read the report that was ordered by the top official in TC , and its conclusions just e-mail me and I will send it back exactly as sent to me by the Acting Regional Director General Pacific Region.

[email protected]

[Phil Lister]

Phil,

Go back under your rock. You've proven by your posts who the "fool" is....

STC,

You are oh so right with that post... and it is you who is the fool...

Until you have something to base your acusations on maybe you should remember the old saying:
"It's better to sit back and seem the fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Cheers
Phil

[STC]

Anyone wishing to read the report that was ordered by the top official in TC , and its conclusions just e-mail me and I will send it back exactly as sent to me by the Acting Regional Director General Pacific Region.

And why exactly would anyone (like "said child") need to email you to gather additional information? Because there isn't enough information on the "underground" or in pprune to make any reasonable conclusions!

Chuck, I don't get it. You keep telling us that there is something very wrong with TC but you fail to back it up with facts. And when I state that, you follow up with posts alluding to some other undisclosed letter or file. Do you not understand how contradictory that is?

Phil....nice to see you're doing what you appear to do best. Keep it up....

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC:

You can't possibly be that stupid.

What better proof of something being wrong with Transport Canada Maintenance and Manufacturing and the misshandling of the issues by Robert Sincennes than my offering to produce the results of the Investigation of my file ordered and paid for by the top official in Transport Canada Pacific Region?

Of course you understand and you are trying to keep this subject front and center so it gets maximum world wide exposure.

I bet Robert Sincennes and all the rest just love you STC.:ok:

Will someone at least give me credit for responding in such a controlled manner to this person? :O

Chuck Ellsworth

[Phil Lister]

STC

Nice to see that you are opening your mouth and "removing all doubt".

All you ever do is trash people.. You do not add anything to the conversation. Is it your mission in life to be a fool?? If it is, you are doing a great job..

I really hope you don't have any kids because I'd be pretty worried about some young ones being brought up by a person like you..

Phil

[STC]

All you ever do is trash people.. You do not add anything to the conversation. Is it your mission in life to be a fool?? If it is, you are doing a great job..

Trash people!? That's rich Phil. You need to review some of your posts, and then tell me about trashing people and not contributing anything....

Chuck, "stupid"?

What better proof of something being wrong with Transport Canada Maintenance and Manufacturing and the misshandling of the issues by Robert Sincennes than my offering to produce the results of the Investigation of my file ordered and paid for by the top official in Transport Canada Pacific Region?

More of the same! You suggest people should jump on your bandwagon because you offered to provide some mysterious so far un-revealed information to somone?

I wouldn't go so far as calling you stupid Chuck, but your posts indicate that you consider everyone else reading them "stupid". That is clear......

[Phil Lister]

You know, STC, if you quit your constant efforts at demeaning people, you might have time to read the posts on the underground site and realise the there is some basis for Chuck's accusations.

If you didn't have your head so far up your rectal cavity it may become obvious to you that people other than you have some knowledge of this industry.

Some day when you grow up, you may come to realise that there are bad people out there and things are not all rosy outside of YWG... Maybe they are there, but probably not in the rest of the world...

Phil

[Chuck Ellsworth]

OK STC:

If you are not able to connect the fact that I am offering to send you or anyone else, by e-mail the TC report that confirms what I alleged regarding TC M&M is true and factual, what other word could I use to describe you besides stupid? :confused:

Why don't you e-mail me and I will send you the McNeal Report?

Chuck E.

[STC]

Chuck....ahhhhhhh!

So you're agreeing that there isn't enough information on pprune or on the "underground" to make a determination...

Thanks for verifying that!

[Phil Lister]

No STC, he's trying to give you the benefit of reading it verbatum, seeing as you cannot seem to understand the abbreviated versions that he has posted.

For the same reason as you have on other boards, you just seem to thrive in making everyone else miserable. Here is a man who is going way above and beyond the norm to try and get you to understand what is really going on, and you still try to trash him.

Well, shame on you. You give the whole avionics industry a bad name with your nonstop bickering. Do you get your jollies by doing this??? Or is it some other perversion??? I don't know, maybe you could fill us in because the rest of us cannot figure out what your motive is..

Phil

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Phil:

STC has some mental issues that he should seek help for.

He knows perfectly well that the allegations I am making regarding wrongdoing by some TC officials and the blatant coverup by those above them is factual.

STC thrives on trying to make others look like they are doing Aviation a disservice by bringing wrongdoing by Transport Canada into a public forum.

You do not have to search far to determine who is more credible, me who has the courage to go public using my own name, and thus willing to be judged by everyone, or STC who remains anonymous...... He will not e-mail me for the report because I would then have his e-mail address...

Chuck Elsworth

[STC]

Oh please....

And you figure "Phil Lister" is his real name? If I was worried about you figuring out who I am, I would send you a hotmail address. By the way....how do I even know you're really Charles Ellsworth? Just because you sign your posts with that name? An anonymous board works both ways. There is never proof of the source. Hell, you could be Robert Sincennes' wife for all I know....

"Other boards" Phil? I don't post on other boards. Although I signed up on the "underground" I don't bother posting there because I don't want to support it. The underground should be buried underground.....

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC:

I gotta hand it to you STC you are sure persistsant in trying to twist simple things to prolong your missguided view of my problems with TC and in this case Robert Sincennes.

Go back and read the underground and you will find my name and pilot license number there, also there are many people who know me personally who can vouch for the fact that I am who I claim to be.

Quite frankly I couldn't care less who you are I already know you get off arguing in circles, so long STC, go bother someone else.

Chuck Ellsworth

[STC]

OK....but have you ever been married to, or been in an intimate relationship with Robert Sincennes?

And please...don't ask me to email you to request any pictures of that please...

:8

[VooDoo222]

STC
After reading all your trash it has become apparent to me that you are in fact living proof that Evolution works in reverse.

p.s. How's your job at TC going these days hmmmm??

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Just another comment for the troll.

If I don't use my real name who is this?

www.chuckellsworth.com

C.E.

[STC]

VooDoo,

I don't work for TC. But thanks for asking. Hows the rash doing?

Chuck,

What does providing a link to a site showing a 152 with an illegal prop prove?

I could claim to be Marilyn Monroe and give you all sorts of links to pictures of myself....

Anonymous forums are just that....there is no requirement to prove who you are and there is no way to verify it.

The truth is, I don't care who you are. But keep providing the aviation links. You might come up with an interesting one!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

STC:

You have now shown just how ignorant you are.

First, the Airplane in the Web Site is a 1976 Cessna A150M Aerobat, which I converted to a Texas Taildragger to use in my flight training business.

It is not a Cessna 152.

Furthermore it does not have an illegal prop on it. The prop on it is a McCulley 1A102/OCM6948 Hub serial #K79382. Which of course in the prop Cessna certified that model with.

For some time now I have suspected you are ( Airplay ) who made a complete ass of himself on an old Canadian Aviation forum slamming me for a problem I had with another Cessna 150 that had been flying commercially for eleven years with an 1A101/HCM 6948 prop on it when I bought it for my flight school. Now I am fairly sure who you are.

Regardless of who you are you are a vile, mean, sorry excuse for a human being.

Maybe some day we shall meet.

Chuck

[STC]

Hey Chuck,

The post was satire, but thanks for the correction. In typical form, you publically slam some person on a public anonymous forum with absolutely no proof of who you are addressing.

I'm sure this person would be upset that you are doing this but that's his problem.

Nasty how these things escalate huh?

Do you ever get the feeling that everything you type
answered by with a kind of defensive, paranoid,
little twist? I initially don’t intend to offend, but threads
end up escalating into a big mess of insults.

From what I can see, some are sensitive to comments
leveled against their opinion. Not that they are slimly,
or dishonest. Just wrong. Instead of lashing out,
you should discuss. Instead of insults, concentrate on
documenting your argument.

Is this too much to ask? Do we continue to call each other
silly names?

Policing ourselves will increase the quality of the discussions,
help us wade through the insults and get to the point. This
is what we should strive for. Maybe all we need is to
leave the insults and egos behind and cut a little, slack.

Like the great Albert Einstein once said, “Only two things are
infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." So, let’s start with a clean slate and
try to stop posting messages with “hidden” meanings so
everyone can get something from this forum. Something we can
really use!

Cheers!