Worlds largest handling agent created

[Mishandled]

With lufthansa selling its ground handling company Globeground to Penauille Polyservice of France, the owner of Servisair, this now creates the worlds biggest handling agent. As a former employee with one of these agents I would be interested to know which of the two handling companies standards of service you would like to see predominate, the Servisair standard or the Globeground one? Also do you see any positives/negatives coming from this merger?

[flapsforty]

Servisair not too bad, but some of the handling in Germany is enough to cause instant cardiac arrest.

Pursers Prayer

To all Beancounters on the 16th floor
Please give us back our company ground staff
And deliver us from Handling Agents
For they know not what they do
Explain to them why a paraplegic can NOT walk off the A/C
And the link between pax boarding & meals catered
Tell them WHEN the Captain needs a NOTOC
And that the Loadsheet is NOT optional
Teach them a smattering of English
And the rudiments of Company Procedures
But most of all
Please give us back our company Ground Staff!



------------------
Singularly Simple Person........

[Scottie]

Having worked for Servisair and having used Globeground give me Globeground everytime!

[sky unlimited]

Please, please, please, give me GlobeGround and certainly not ServiceAir (DisasterAir according to my colleges thoughts).
But (Menzies)Ogden Aviation is also OK.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[tech...again]

Also "affectionately" known as Circusair...(!)

Mishandled - in my experience of the company at a number of very different stations, there is no such thing as a Servisair "standard". In general, the only shared feature of their stations is the logo. This becomes especially apparent when you compare them with other well-established handling companies - especially in Europe.

Not to say that the staff at a good few of the stations don't work hard and do a very good job - even if it is after a little external 'encouragement'...!

[Pat Pong]

Sorry -I thought it was Cervixair

[HugMonster]

Please, please, please, dear God, ANYTHING but ScurvyAir.

[Gary Halliday]

Good grief, a HM post you can agree with.

I`d advise anyone to be a handling agent as long as they have no scruples, because it has to be the easiest rip off known to man.

GH

[BoarderDude]

Ogden is quite okay... except at AMS !!!
Our company just switched to KLM ground handling, but that is not really an improvement, I must say. Yesterday had to wait 40 (!!!) minutes for the gate to be disconnected...

[im]

it has to be said that all you airline fluffys don't have a clue when it comes to running a business. if you could get your aircraft in on time, stop overbooking, stop throwing your rubbish on the steps, open the doors(even when it is cold) when asked, and a thousand other annoyances, then you would have room to talk. as it is you fly piles of junk which are in the hanger longer than they are in the sky, cant tell the time, lie to your passengers and blame the handling agent for the delays to avoid them looking too closely at the second rate half baked armature airline they have the misfortune to be flying with. it's always the worst airline that complains the loudest as they have the most to hide.
as for the Ogden comment, that is laughable Servisair bought them out at lgw simply because they were so bad, and after seeing menzies Ogden's in Prague that caller simply doesn't know what they are talking about, they were laughable.
lets see the airlines perform half as well then we all might get were we are going more efficiently

[fly4fud]

ho ho....
I think somebody opened fire...where is the shelter :)

------------------
... cut my wings and I'll die ...

[RampTramp]

Gotta agree with tech...again that Servisair do not seem to have a common standard. Their sevice varies between very good at some stations to bl00dy awful in others. That said, at the few stations where the local agent has become GlobeGround, I haven't seen much 'standarising' of the procedures.

Generally I'm not sure I like this trend to the Mega Handling Agent, give me the smaller independent any time, at least you could find somebody at the station to take responsibility.

It'll end in tears, mark my words!!

------------------
I'm not old, I was just born too early

[HugMonster]

I have to say that there are three stations at which I've had no problems at all with CircusAir. Those are BRS, BOH and ABZ.

Anywhere else (particularly NCL and STN) they are truly, truly AWFUL.

The problem as I see it is not per se with the people on the ground but with management. They are understaffed, undertrained and undermotivated. The pay is disgraceful and as a result instead of getting and keeping good, competent adult staff, they end up with school-leavers who don't give a duck and don't understand the implications of things they are presented with.

I've been handled a few times in the past by GH - they seemed okay, but this was a while ago - they may have changed since.

As a postscript, WTF is happening with Ambilifts/Wheelchairs @ STN? They can't cope. We had two little old ladies last week waiting over 40 minutes for wheelchairs, which were pre-booked, but ADI couldn't, it seems, handle arriving on stand at the same time as the aircraft. Eventually they turned up 5 minutes after we should have been boarding the outbound pax... And the LOL's were sitting in the aircraft whilst the cabin crew did their security checks, the cleaners cleaned etc....

[tech...again]

im - don't know which airlines you handle, but maybe the guys and gals "running your business" don't have a clue how to tender for decent business and are left with the dregs...! Certainly sounds like it.

Admittedly, aircraft don’t always arrive on time but as we all know this is for a huge variety of reasons (which I’m sure all us ex/customer service types can reel off in our sleep) – a very common one being that another handling agent has let us down at another station and caused a reactionary delay!

As for overbooking, although I can see both sides of the argument here having been on the wrong side of the desk on too many occasions in the past, your comment that “airline fluffys (what’s a fluffy?) don’t have a clue when it comes to running a business” shows your ignorance. As you’re obviously not aware, every flight on every day on most airlines’ networks has a statistical history (the average number of no/go shows etc.) from which the ‘overbooking profile’ is taken. This then enables the airline to maximize profit on any given route using the available historical data. Very good business sense, no? So why do flights always get heavily booked out of my station and all the pax turn up… I hear you cry..? If the correct procedures are followed and the handling agent responsible feeds this (essential) information back to the relevant airline’s capacity or revenue management department as set out in (nearly all) airline procedures manuals via telex or DCS handback, the ‘overbooking profile’ for that particular flight/station is amended to try and prevent, wherever possible, a repeated ‘denied boarding’ situation which is obviously bad PR for the airline and also expensive. Airlines don't want this situation to arise any more than handling agents and in the ‘ideal world’ (including pro-active handling agents [!]), of course it wouldn’t – but come on, this is aviation…!

If handling agents stopped throwing our rubbish back in the hold lose to ruin passengers’ baggage, stopped opening the aircraft’s doors (even when it is cold) and blowing emergency chutes, and a thousand other annoyances, then you would have room to talk….!

Obviously, I can only speak for the airline for which I currently work, but as it stands our fleet has average age of about 2 years, we fly short haul so the aircraft do spend longer either on the ramp (usually waiting for a loadsheet!) or in the hangar than in the sky and we find that we encounter most ‘mythical time experiences’ when dealing with a handling agent – we have just the 1 clock...!

We always aim to tell the passengers exactly what is happening as accurately as possible as soon as possible in the event of disruption, as they WILL find out in the end and we WILL have to deal with many of them long after you have gone off shift and they’ve left your station…!

Where a delay is incurred and, for example, the flight crew are to blame, we will always follow this up with the crew and pass the information to the handling agent where appropriate. We certainly recognise that airlines, as handling agents, are far from perfect.

As for; “it’s always the worst airline that complains the loudest as they have the most to hide” is concerned, in my experience it is beyond doubt the most pro-active and usually best airline on a station that always follows things up as they have the most to lose from adverse handling which may well lower their usual high standard for regular travelers and consequently impact on the business. Remember that the airlines have the benefit of looking around their network and comparing handling agents and suppliers very closely – we see the ‘bigger picture’, not just 1 station day in day out - and many of us come from a handling background…!

One final question concerning your business sense….. “Servisair bought them out at LGW simply because they were so bad”… what kind of reason is this to purchase a company? Are you sure…!?

Obviously many common gripes coming out here between handling agents and airlines, but always remember who pays your wages……!

Let the ranting begin………..!

TA

[tech...again]

HugMonster,

Have only had dealings with BOH of those three and have to agree that I couldn't really fault them. Friendly helpful staff and, it would at least appear, good local management. They're far from all bad, just consistently inconsistent...!?

TA

[Scottie]

Edinburgh used to have good standards. Well it did when I worked there :) :) :) :)

[tech...again]

...need to get those smiley/grinning/grimacing things sorted...

EDI has also been fine in my experience - don't want to make mention of the lesser stations (in my opinion)for fear of offending the few good staff which they generally all offer. As I've said, not all bad by any means, but highly inconsistent.

TA

[im]

Ok…hit a nerve?!

Lets begin.

The point im making is this, it’s so easy to sit back and blame the handling agent, especially one so big, I expect your one of those they types that hate Microsoft but are using windows etc etc.
What you fail to grasp is the behind the scenes work that has to be performed just to turn a buck, the handling agents handle more than one airline at a time, they are not just wholly dedicated to yours. Your delayed inbound was probably caused by an earlier handling agent trying to work around another airlines poor planning, and low quality aircraft being in the hanger.
They cannot lay on enough staff to cover all eventualities the industry throws at them. The best they can do is plan in some slippage, known from past experience and man up accordingly.
The equation is not as simple as yours.
1 aircraft = 1 crew
for handling agents it is something like this
1 aircraft = 1 inbound/outbound team 1 pushback team 1 load controller 1 cleaning team and so it goes on.
All of who have many aircraft in one day to handle, not just one.
These people you hold in such contempt keep you safe in the skies, it’s them that spot damage, leaks, and other aircraft problems you would never know about unless it was too late, they load your aircraft to the highest standards, if you only knew what went on behind the coffee jug in the cabin you might understand a little better just why you are delayed. Do you really believe they are doing it on purpose, do you really believe that if they could get better quality staff they wouldn’t. In some areas of low unemployment (LGW) it is almost impossible to find them.
The Ogden’s buy out, let me explain.
They are a very large company as you know, they came to LGW in the hope to conquer the world, well let me tell you they were a shambles, they didn’t pay their staff they couldn’t even afford to uniform them in the end, this was all instigated by you airlines and your great business sense, for cheaper handling, however it back fired. It was cheaper but, ‘buy cheap buy twice’, that’s right, you were stung by bad QUALITY. In order to stop the rot the only alternative to carry on at LGW was to buy the cancer then kill it with all it’s bad ways.
But you don’t learn do you…..now we have British Midland, Jesus!! when will you understand, oh and guess what, that’s right, the other handling agent at LGW has ……..bought them out. (AVIANCE)

Stanstead ….mmmmm I agree.
The overbooking is now well understood, thanks, however when it comes time to offload the passengers bags. Guess what. That’s right it causes a delay, no doubt the handling agents fault.

Ok im getting bored hearing my own keys.

cheerio

[Gorilla]

I have to agree with HugMonster. Servisair in NCL are quite the most disorganised untrained rabble that I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in a very long aviation career.
Their employees have "assisted" a drunk passenger to the aircraft steps, only to have said drunk pass out on boarding & as for their ETOPS dispatch service......well forget it,arrive early and do your own!
Speak as you find...MAN & LGW FIRST CLASS, just avoid NCL.

[tech...again]

im,

Yes I’m using Windows – Microsoft’s fine with me..!

I know life’s not always peachy for handling agents – I’ve worked for a handling agent in all areas (including cargo) for 6 years of my career and for an airline only 2. Having been on the receiving end of such complaints from airlines, I quickly learned the importance of a good dispatch card and daily station log!

I’m therefore already aware of the other issues you mention relating to handling agents, but would add that there is quite a trend developing in some of the larger handling companies for the development of ‘dedicated teams’ for major airline customers. This has many benefits, but naturally also disadvantages. I’m sure that the airline benefits from this more than the handling agent! Must make rostering around sickness and leave a little difficult – and on that subject I concede that staffing issues must be a constant struggle at some stations – but it has to be said that some stations manage it much better then others.

The 1 aircraft = 1 crew issue isn’t correct. Yes at some outstations (I suspect yours) where the operating crew arrive, walk around the a/c, supervise fuelling and sign the loadsheet - but at many stations there are crew changes, multi-sector crews who are nearly ‘out of hours’ owing to earlier operational problems ‘invisible’ at your station, daily maintenance issues, return catering requirements, flight operations literature requirements and several more. I don’t know a great deal about crewing, but really admire the folks who are involved in it daily.

The comment you have made that I hold handling agent staff “in contempt” is ludicrous. Everybody working in aviation is responsible for safety whatever their area and handling staff of all kinds play a vital role in this – and I generally find take great pride in doing so. I agree that high quality staff in some areas in particular are very difficult to come by - airlines want to keep handling costs down as much as handling agents want to charge high rates. I know that this can make things difficult, but airlines are currently facing many issues on cost such as the rapidly increasing cost of Jet A1.

Interesting info about the Ogden’s buyout – although I don’t think it’s fair to put the entire blame on the airlines for them turning out the way they did – this is a business after all.

I have daily experience of British Midland and am aware of the Aviance thing currently going on – at this rate it won’t be long until there are only 2 or 3 handling outfits in Europe! Finally, if the gate staff close the gate on time and initiate the search for bags immediately it is needed, there should be no reason to take a delay – this is probably a standard part of handling on at least 20% of the departures from LGW every day...!? (where do all those passengers disappear to) Pro-active handling agents generally seem to have no problem with this on our network.

...also bored with the sound of my keys

Rgds,

TA

[HiSpeedTape]

Well, well well. HUGMONSTER. When your crappy little ahem 'Airline' was praying for good will from all of its creditors to help it to keep struggling on, was not one of it's major debts with Servisair?
Have they not had a hand in helping your crappy little outfit recover from it's mismanagement misfortune and bankruptcy? What an ungrateful, ignorant you are. Your lot could not organise a peeup in a brewery. In fact I've not had the misfortune to meet a more disorganised amateurish rabble than your outfit. Why don't you wind your neck in.

[HiSpeedTape]

Well written IM. Wish I had the patience to have written such an eloquent reply. Instead I tend to fly off the handle when certain thickets post inflamatory remarks.

[tech...again]

HiSpeedTape,

Indeed im's replies have been well written, but are generally far from accurate and completely one sided. There are always 2 (or more!) sides to a story...!

TA

[HugMonster]

IM, I've never yet known a handling agent who could spot technical problems on my aircraft. Can you elucidate on what their technical expertise is that qualifies them for this task? Personally, I rely on my walk-round inspection and the considerable assistance of the engineers to do what you suggest.

Can you also explain how we are supposed to help them if we encounter stronger headwinds today than yesterday, making our arrival time later? We (and every pilot I know) calls the handling agent at destination on the RT as soon as within reach to pass them an estimate of the on-blocks time. In my experience, that estimate is usually correct to +/- 5 minutes. If they can't then provide the assistance that is needed, then perhaps they should think of another business to be in, since erratic arrival times are part of the territory.

If the problems are solely the fault of the airline, I'm not sure how you would explain that some handling agents are excellent at what they do, but many are truly awful...

Next, it's clear you don't understand booking and the mechanics of overbooking. If a flight is overbooked, you don't check all the pax in, with their bags, then decide who you're going to bump and THEN offload their bags. The extras are not checked in, nor are their bags. Simple enough? The only occasions you may have to offload bags is when they're already checked in, then the pax disappear prior to boarding and the flight needs to close, or if the flight is allowed by the handlers to go overweight and you need to reduce weight. Neither of these cases are likely to be the fault of the airline...

[tech...again]

Interesting points, HugMonster.

Rgds,

TA

[Mishandled]

When I originally started this thread I didnt expect it to turn out to be an argy-bargy between airlines and handling agents. Whoops! Anyway, heres my opinion. Having worked in management at a handling agent for more than 10 years and having seen the profitability of the business at first hand, I have been worried for the industry as a whole in recent years due to the increaseing copmetition in the market. I know that business is a competitive environment, however, the rush of companies to invets in ground handling (Menzies, Penauille, Go-ahead etc) has led to an oversupply in the market, and thus to a position which the airlines are able to exploit. By this I mean that the airlines are paying too little for handling and expecting more for that price. THis in turn forces the handling agents to push costs to further limits which leads to low staff morale, poor equipment MT, less capital investment etc etc. This all means that service to the airlines will suffer. I am completely in favour with the free market philosophy (as long as it is a free market, mind you with France, Germany not being so as far as handling is concerned), that being said the handling agents themselves are constantly being put into positions like that of LGW in the mid 90s. Ogden entered a market and started undercutting GHI and Servisair by up to 50%, in order to win business. This led to a massive pressure on GHI and SVR to match the prices offered to the airline by Ogden. These prices were clearly unsustainable, all three of the agents lost money in this period, and the rot was eventually stopped when Servisair bought out ogden from the UK at massive cost. An yet still the airlines demand more competition. So as far as the current trend of handling agents merging to become fewer and bigger players in the market, I think this is a good thing. For two main reasons: They will be in a better position to raise investment (IT, GSE etc). They will be better able to cope with proper competition. This all leads to more training for staff, batter pay and therefore higher quality of staff, better equipment due to the power of bulk buying (50 * GPU vs 3 * GPU), better IT therefore better information flows and resource management and control. All of this leads to better quality for airlines. We all win!

[jetfueldrinker]

Years ago, White Hatters did all their own handilng, cleaning, pottable and waste water. But when an accountant took to the helm, all that changed. Our handling is now done by Circusair, and it has to be said that we have had to wait as long as 3 hours for a tug to take an aircraft from the hangar to the run up bay for power runs, and have to wait a further 3 hours to return to the hangar. In effect 7 hours to carry out an engine run. So the aircraft is late out of the hngar, the passengers are given free coffee while waiting in the terminal, and we engineers are given grief by management because an engine change took too long!

At LTN the amount of baggage that is siplled on the tarmac in transit to the aircraft is beyond belief. I have ofetn seen over loaded baggage trucks going from the terminal to the 6 pack, with passenger's luggage strewn all over the place. The turnover of tug drivers is so high that it must cost a small fortune to have to keep training up new starters. Now there are initiatives to look into the problems that we face with 3rd party agents. Over the years the price charged by Circusair has risen, but the airlines want to pay less. So something has to give, and usually it is the moral of their staff. There is only so much that can be done in one day, and it appears to me that Circusair, like so many others, is trying to cram a quart into a pint pot

All that farming out services has done for the airlines is abdication of responsibilities. The airline is not responsible for training, buying and maintaining equipment, providing id cards for staff who provide services etc. The airline accountants love it, but I think that it is time that larger airlines looked at perhaps bringing some services back in house. That way the airlines could have more control over handling problems and look at practicle solutions to reduce them.

[im]

HugMonster
most of your questions have already been answered, please pay attention, oh and PAY UP.
I particularly refer you to the very well explained and informative explanation of overbooking by ‘tech…again’
Not much more that can be said on this subject without it getting nasty.
Airlines have a hard time, fully understood.
Handling agents have a hard time, fully explained
Passengers don’t have a clue just how passionate we all are to give them the service they have paid for, if they could see just how passionately all sides of the industry react they might bitch a little less.
Now, another good related topic is the Unions and the strangle hold they are increasingly placing on the handling agents, and the airlines?

Cant help must make one last snide remark to hug monster.
Do you know anything about man planning?! Do you think we have hundreds of staff just hanging around waiting for your bulk loaded Tri-Star (L1011 just incase you didn’t know) leaking fuel all over the ramp?
This would be the leak we spot and you ignore. Do you need to be an engineer to spot a leak??
Cheerio

[RampTramp]

JetFuelDrinker has some very good points. I've been know to stand on my hind legs in public places & berate the airlines for expecting something for nothing. I deal with our handling contracts & expect value for money & good service, not the cheapest & monkeys. Anybody in the handling business knows the cost of a turnround +/- a few quid & must expect the agent to earn a contribution on top of that. If the agent is forced to provide service at or below cost then they cannot afford training, reinvestment, reasonable salaries etc and the service will suffer. It ain't rocket science!
As for the 'big few' that will be left when the EU deregulation dust has settled & the current round of buy-outs is over, are we not in danger of trading the old monopolies for oligarchy?
I'm pretty sure that there will be a few airlines who end up taking the handling back in house, simply because they can't get the service from the Handling Agents. Whatever happens over the next few years, it's gonna be interesting! I just hope that the drop in standards can be arrested before it starts to compomise flight safety in a major way.

------------------
I'm not old, I was just born too early

[im]

Jetfuel….. points well made and well put apart from the ‘circusair’ remarks doesn’t warm me to you.
As we all know BA do their own handling at LGW the most over paid over staffed outfit you have ever seen, and yet still they have very poor service, just look at their transfer product it is universally accepted to be the worst.

I don’t think the answer is self handling I think the airlines should be more realistic with their expectations.
If the aircraft came in on time like buses every day without fail then the service and prices would be first rate.
However, this, as we know, is ridiculous. Slippage due to off schedule activity is planned for, but, to plan for it all would be economic suicide, as im sure you are aware.
So here we have our quandary. You don’t want to pay more, we cant do it for less, you cant ignore engine problems, we cant afford to have teams hanging around in the eventuality that you might need to tow remote or to the hanger. That is unrealistic and unreasonable.
So what do we do?

We towed an aircraft five time recently, it was a bloody tour of the airport and at the end they said it was tech! and could we please transfer all the bulk baggage to an ageing DC10. Count the staff needed. Two for the towing five for the baggage one to two in the ULD control, that it is a total of 8/9 staff just one off schedule activity cost us two inbound/outbound crews lost to engineering incompetence. How many other airlines could we have delayed for this? No doubt they are here complaining about the s..t service.
Don’t forget this is just one off schedule acivity, there are many in a day you only deal with yours, you should try the daily logistics we have to deal with.

The answer is when you create the problem ‘you’ pay, that way we can afford to have more staff available. But no, that wouldn’t do when your commercial and our commercial departments get together they don’t account for any of this, we are too keen to get the contract you are too keen to bring the price down.
Know wonder we are all here slagging each other off.
Go ahead self handle, your be out of business before you can say ‘bloody circusa…’

CHEERIO.

[SFly]

Nevermind what we all want . . . what I wish to know is, now that this huge company has been created, what is going to be it's identity? Is the Servisair name going to stay around or what?

SFly

[jetfueldrinker]

IM,
Sorry if you felt that I was slagging you off. It wasn't a personal asside to anyone on the sh!tty end of the stick, but a general comment regarding my personal experiences with our handilig agent, namely Servicair. Reading through the theread, done I might add before I made a comment, it appears to me that there are set ups at other airports where Servicair do a good job. But at LTN I find this is not the case. It all worked well before White Hatters put out their handilng to Servicair, but once they took over, it seems that the rot set in after only a few months and it has never been put right. I agree that when our commercial managers meet up, they should be realistic in expectations and allow more for engineering movements, and to expect the unexpected. But then it might be so expensive that it would be better to bring it all in house again. But what with the cost of TUPE etc...... Something tells me it will never change.

By the way, White Hatters used to do handling for other operators at LTN. I don't suppose that the commercial people thought for one minute that this was money in the bank for the airline.

[mollusc]

hugmonster
if your so called airline could actually operate a flight to the published times then you wouldn't have any problems..but seens how you work to a different time zone to everyone else that will never happen.
its ill informed butt kisser's like yourself
that make the job so much fun for the people at ncl..we do so like laughing at your half baked attempt to be an airline...long may you carry on your struggle..it brings a smile to everyones face.

[Mishandled]

Sfly, according to the press releases the Globeground element will be renamed Servisair, under the Chairmanship of John Willis (Servisair). However, it might make more sense to rebrand the whole lot, in my opinion, in order to do away with any misconceptions about the two brands eg Servisair is just a charter airline handling agent, and Globeground will favour LH turnrounds at the expense of other customers. How about Services Aeroportuaire de Penauille? or is that too French? Anyway in my experience of handling agents, most if not all of them try to do the best job for the customers as they can (both airlines and passengers), usually under trying circumstances, just like everyone else. Hugmonster, with regard to your overloading/overbooking problem, it is often a problem with the airline procedures concerned how this situation is dealt with. (I dont know of the procedures for your company, so I wont comment). I remember some occasions with a british airline now part of a dutch airline, where the station manager insisted that all passengers were to be checked in and then an auction/bribe was held in the gate lounge, as to which passengers were to be offloaded and given denied boarding compensation. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[BIG E]

hoy mollusc

are you still a crap keeper!!!

[Hot and Dry]

I have slaged off Servisair at LTN for ages but yesterday morning we were dispatched by a guy who actually knew what he was doing and went out of his way help. I think his name was David. If you are reading this THANK YOU please rub of some of your skills on your colleges.

[HiSpeedTape]

Err.. Mollusc was(is) an excellent keeper. He's cr@p at everything else though!

[Ontheairwaves]

Speaking as a European working for a US airline i have to say bring back the company
people.
The likes of GHI/Circusair..etc are the way of the future for airlines....well so managment think.....
But they are not the ones dealing with stupidity at it's best...the circusair employees are the best at their job...making sure that flights leave late...don't have a marshaller to meet it....don't have steps on remote stands...need i go on.....
Company ground agents have alot of time for the company but to the contractors it's just another aircraft for another airline....
They don't give a monkeys about whether it goes or not....okay sometimes you get 1 agent in an airport who might know what he/she is about...but that's it....the rest
are newly hired/low on experience if any and are just doing a job
Airline personnel atleast know the respective airline's computer systems better..know the exact regulations re NOTAC's and really care for their airline...
Contractors....well need i say more.....

[BIG E]

HST

Agree on the last but i seem to remember knocking a good few past him,by the way going by your username you aren't related to a certain middle eastern dictator are you?

[HiSpeedTape]

BIG E
Humm... very astute of you. I could be.
It has been said that I bear some resemblance to my cousin from the Euphrates and Tigris district. I've also been mistaken for a Hawaiian PI, a deceased 80's rock legend and a thousand spanish waiters and greek taxi drivers (alledgedly). You been copying my profile?

HST

[This message has been edited by HiSpeedTape (edited 06 July 2001).]

[redfield]

Lots of people seem to be having a go at Servisair and their staff. Maybe someone should say something in their defence. I heard that Servisair at NCL had earned the Airtours station of the year award and had also been KLM Uk station of the month twice? So much for them being a "disorganised untrained rabble" as Hugmonster says. However, I do agree that the problem does lie with the management of the company: staff are not paid well and some of the equipment that we have to work with was built in 1936. Same old story though isn't it? Management see things from the narrow-minded viewpoint of money and nothing else matters - how much can they save on NOT providing extra GPU's, "we must cut down on overtime" and so on - while the staff on the tarmac see the operation from the viewpoint of there not being enough people or equipment to do the job that management expects them to do. I don't believe that the staff at NCL are untrained or disorganised - just trying to do their best for their airlines under diffcult conditions. And finally Hugmonster, your airline has improved radically over recent months but your operations department still lets you down! Perhaps you should devote your efforts to resolving your airline's problems before concentrating on someone else's! :eek:

[chiglet]

im, hug, et al
As a "guy in the middle" [or should that be 'muddle', can I have my 5 pennoth, please?
A couple of years ago, I was on a "Familiarisation Flight", so I was in the jumpseat. 15 mins to start of slot, captain says to pushback..."Calling for Start and Pudh." to be met with...."Sorry, we need your tug for another aircraft".
The other a/c was a "Cargo" flt with a slot 30 mins after ours.......
A couple of weeks ago, Very quiet....two DC10s on "disembarking" stands. Not due out for 12 hours. Hanlind agent asked to remove said a/c a total of 15 times. When inbounds landed, they had to go "remote" because the [same] handling agent "couldn't find a tug!!!"
Then at 8.30 am on a Monday morning phone the tower to ask if XYZ123 has departed, 'cos "he pushed 10 mins ago". one day, I will say rude words......
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy