When does a minute start?

[Bern Oulli]

Here at the good old College of Knowledge in the UK it has been taught that, for the purposes of ATC recording the arrival or departure time of an aircraft, the next minute starts at 30 seconds past the minute.......I'm sorry, I'll read that again. If the time is 17:54 and 28 seconds when the aircraft departed then it departed at 17:54. If the time is 17:54 and 30 seconds (or 30 through 59 seconds) then it departed at 17:55. Etc, etc, etc.

I can remember being taught that on my Cadet Initial course (that dates me) by one Doug Shoulder (that dates me even more), but the question is: where is it laid down? What is the reference?

The UK AIP GEN section says that times should be recorded "to the nearest minute", as does the Saudi AIP. But where does it say that the 30 second mark is the changeover point? And is it a world-wide convention or peculiar to the UK (and possibly Saudi Arabia)?

Where's ORAC? :ooh:

Perhaps this should be in Jetblast.

[almost professional]

It's how i and every ATCO i've ever worked with has done it (unless the aircraft concerned it running out of slot!), but i can't help you with any documentation. :hmm:

[Bern Oulli]

Yeah that seems to be it - custom and usage. Most people reckon its been like that since the days of Pontius, but where's the reference? "We do it this way because.....we've always done it this way".

[Down Ampney]

From this derived the practise of allowing 2 minute departure separations to consist of 62 seconds actual spacing e.g. No1 departs at 1215:29 (=1215) and No2 at 1216:31 (=1217)! Useful to tower controllers in a tight corner but frightening to departure radar who would thereafter insist on 120 seconds between deps.
Ah, the old days.....

[chiglet]

01.29 = Min01
01.31 = Min02
Learned that in the Mob [RAF]
BUT what wasn't taught was .........
What happens to those two seconds...and more imprtantly
What the Heck happens between 23.59.59 and 00.00 01?
I was told that that was the only "Free Time" you had in H M Forces :rolleyes:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Bern Oulli]

And by the same process 23:59:30 is considered to be 00:00 and therefore Tomorrow or even Next Year. :{

[126,7]

Bern Oulli wrote:
And by the same process 23:59:30 is considered to be 00:00 and therefore Tomorrow or even Next Year.

Crazy how time flies innit?:}

[Dantruck]

...all sounds a bit second rate to me:O

[Mr_Grubby]

I was working at West Drayton at 12:34 on the 5th of June, '78.
For one second the time was 12345678.
Does this count ?

Mr. G.

[Spitoon]

On the original question, 'to the nearest minute' seems to answer most of the question. At 29 seconds past the nearest minute is the one just past, at 31 seconds past the nearest minute is thew one just coming. No idea what happens at 30 seconds past though - perhaps its a bit like 2400, not used to avoid confusion.

Come to think of it,Bern who cares! And why did I bother sitting here and tring to offer my two pennyworth?

And another thing. Mr_Grubby, even though I've reached the age where I can come up with comments about CATC and the like that will date me, when your clock showed 12345678, I was still at school.

Ahh, that feels better!

[Mr_Grubby]

Thank you Spitoon.

Your comment makes me feel realy old !!.

However, after reading my original post I realise I am wrong.
12345678 would show for a whole minute, not a second as I said.
Although the actual moment would only last a second.

Flower, if you read this, ask BM. He was there.

I can't remember where I was at 12:34 and 5 seconds on the 6th of July '89 because then it was 123456789 more than likely still sat on TMA South waiting for a relief !!

Mr. G.

[zed3]

Seem to remember from YEARS ago , one had 2359 and then 0001 , what happened in between was .....well what ? !!!

[controller friendly]

I can tell you were I was at 123456789, the push button aerodrome sim at CATC..........;)

Another question on the subject though I was told recently that the same does not apply for slots.....so if I launch something at 12:34 31 with a slot of 12:35, I have launched it too early, why the difference......? :confused:

[Bern Oulli]

Because we are consistently inconsistent. Its the law.

I'm beginning to wish I'd never asked. Thanks for your....I use the word "thoughts" for want of an alternative.

[Plazbot]

i take ie we are not discussing a microsoft minute here whick is actually 2 mins 30 oh no wait now it is 42 seconds and now it is 1 min 22 now it is 2 mins 23..........

[Sheepy]

Hmmmmm ....always thought it was 2359 then 2400 then 0001
...You cant have 0000 .. no time does not exist

Sheepy :ok: