When does a minute start?
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When does a minute start?
Here at the good old College of Knowledge in the UK it has been taught that, for the purposes of ATC recording the arrival or departure time of an aircraft, the next minute starts at 30 seconds past the minute.......I'm sorry, I'll read that again. If the time is 17:54 and 28 seconds when the aircraft departed then it departed at 17:54. If the time is 17:54 and 30 seconds (or 30 through 59 seconds) then it departed at 17:55. Etc, etc, etc.
I can remember being taught that on my Cadet Initial course (that dates me) by one Doug Shoulder (that dates me even more), but the question is: where is it laid down? What is the reference?
The UK AIP GEN section says that times should be recorded "to the nearest minute", as does the Saudi AIP. But where does it say that the 30 second mark is the changeover point? And is it a world-wide convention or peculiar to the UK (and possibly Saudi Arabia)?
Where's ORAC?
Perhaps this should be in Jetblast.
I can remember being taught that on my Cadet Initial course (that dates me) by one Doug Shoulder (that dates me even more), but the question is: where is it laid down? What is the reference?
The UK AIP GEN section says that times should be recorded "to the nearest minute", as does the Saudi AIP. But where does it say that the 30 second mark is the changeover point? And is it a world-wide convention or peculiar to the UK (and possibly Saudi Arabia)?
Where's ORAC?
Perhaps this should be in Jetblast.
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It's how i and every ATCO i've ever worked with has done it (unless the aircraft concerned it running out of slot!), but i can't help you with any documentation. 
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Yeah that seems to be it - custom and usage. Most people reckon its been like that since the days of Pontius, but where's the reference? "We do it this way because.....we've always done it this way".
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From this derived the practise of allowing 2 minute departure separations to consist of 62 seconds actual spacing e.g. No1 departs at 1215:29 (=1215) and No2 at 1216:31 (=1217)! Useful to tower controllers in a tight corner but frightening to departure radar who would thereafter insist on 120 seconds between deps.
Ah, the old days.....
Ah, the old days.....
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01.29 = Min01
01.31 = Min02
Learned that in the Mob [RAF]
BUT what wasn't taught was .........
What happens to those two seconds...and more imprtantly
What the Heck happens between 23.59.59 and 00.00 01?
I was told that that was the only "Free Time" you had in H M Forces
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
01.31 = Min02
Learned that in the Mob [RAF]
BUT what wasn't taught was .........
What happens to those two seconds...and more imprtantly
What the Heck happens between 23.59.59 and 00.00 01?
I was told that that was the only "Free Time" you had in H M Forces
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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On the original question, 'to the nearest minute' seems to answer most of the question. At 29 seconds past the nearest minute is the one just past, at 31 seconds past the nearest minute is thew one just coming. No idea what happens at 30 seconds past though - perhaps its a bit like 2400, not used to avoid confusion.
Come to think of it,Bern who cares! And why did I bother sitting here and tring to offer my two pennyworth?
And another thing. Mr_Grubby, even though I've reached the age where I can come up with comments about CATC and the like that will date me, when your clock showed 12345678, I was still at school.
Ahh, that feels better!
Come to think of it,Bern who cares! And why did I bother sitting here and tring to offer my two pennyworth?
And another thing. Mr_Grubby, even though I've reached the age where I can come up with comments about CATC and the like that will date me, when your clock showed 12345678, I was still at school.
Ahh, that feels better!
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Thank you Spitoon.
Your comment makes me feel realy old !!.
However, after reading my original post I realise I am wrong.
12345678 would show for a whole minute, not a second as I said.
Although the actual moment would only last a second.
Flower, if you read this, ask BM. He was there.
I can't remember where I was at 12:34 and 5 seconds on the 6th of July '89 because then it was 123456789 more than likely still sat on TMA South waiting for a relief !!
Mr. G.
Your comment makes me feel realy old !!.
However, after reading my original post I realise I am wrong.
12345678 would show for a whole minute, not a second as I said.
Although the actual moment would only last a second.
Flower, if you read this, ask BM. He was there.
I can't remember where I was at 12:34 and 5 seconds on the 6th of July '89 because then it was 123456789 more than likely still sat on TMA South waiting for a relief !!
Mr. G.
Last edited by Mr_Grubby; 8th May 2003 at 04:08.
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I can tell you were I was at 123456789, the push button aerodrome sim at CATC..........
Another question on the subject though I was told recently that the same does not apply for slots.....so if I launch something at 12:34 31 with a slot of 12:35, I have launched it too early, why the difference......?
Another question on the subject though I was told recently that the same does not apply for slots.....so if I launch something at 12:34 31 with a slot of 12:35, I have launched it too early, why the difference......?
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Because we are consistently inconsistent. Its the law.
I'm beginning to wish I'd never asked. Thanks for your....I use the word "thoughts" for want of an alternative.
I'm beginning to wish I'd never asked. Thanks for your....I use the word "thoughts" for want of an alternative.
