Buzz v Ryanair at the 11th Hour! [Archive]

Hugh Effo

29th Mar 2003, 03:30

With less than three days to go to the proposed sale of Buzz to Ryanair - KLM are still unable to agre terms with Ryanair. On Wednesday the staff were told that KLM "Remain unable to provide you with several important pieces of information. For this I apologise.

KLM and Ryanair continue to discuss the terms of the sale and to date they have been unable to reach a conclusion on a number of issues.

Until these issues have been resolved, we are simply unable to provide you with any further details. However, none of these issues will affect your entitlement to compensation in the event of your redundancy in accordance with your terms of employment with KLM uk Ltd." signed by the CEO.

On Friday 28th is has been announced that the sale is not going through on the 31st March. The CEO has stated that "As you were advised on 26 March 2003, there were a number of outstanding issues between KLM and Ryanair in relation to the sale of the buzz business.

Regrettably those issues have not as yet been fully resolved and as a result the sale of the buzz business to Ryanair may be delayed.

As a consequence, for the moment you will all continue to be employed by KLM uk Ltd. Your salary and benefits will of course continue to be paid as normal during this time.

We will advise you as and when we have more details and hope to have further information for you on Monday 31st March."

It is a total nightmare for all the employees of KLM uk Ltd. both those who have signed up with Ryanair and those who have not and wish to collect their redundancy all leave both parties behind them.

KLM now run the real risk that they will have lost the sale of the airline for no payment, have lost the routes to Ryanair since they are now selling tickets for them, lost the slots out of Stansted for no payment, be left with the redundancy payment of over 600 staff, and be left with 6 737 leases and 8 146 leases outstanding. Some of the 146 leases run at four times the value of the 737s.

KLM - Didn't they do well !

Ryanair - They'll get the routes since they are already marketing them, and presumably the slots out of STN since they will be vacated by Buzz. - Ryanair won't have to pay for an airline, and have destroyed a small but worthy competitor.

The biggest loses are the wonderful bunch of people that comprise the operating staff of Buzz - they are destroyed.

lgtjanssen

29th Mar 2003, 16:02

A KLM spokesperson (Mr. B. Koster) issued on March 18th a statement to the Dutch news agencies (after rumours in the Dutch financial community that Ryanair was backing out of the Buzz sale) that KLM and Ryanair couldn't agree on the price Ryanair has to pay. Furthermore KLM wasn't sure the UK competition authorities could clear the sale before the deadline of April 1st.

Thus it looks as if price is the most important issue

XSBaggage

29th Mar 2003, 17:56

Don't think FR have sufficient aircraft to operate all the proposed routes if the sale doesn't go through, so don't think this was their plan all along.

Hope it gets sorted out soon, firstly for the sake of all the buzz guys and for all the pax who have already booked on the "Ryanair operated by buzz" routes.

As said previously, KLM seemed to make a right mess of the whole affair.

timzsta

30th Mar 2003, 00:34

Surely if the sale does not go through Ryanair get nothing. No sale surely means they dont get the Buzz slots and they dont get the Buzz aircraft. The slots would become vacant and Ryanair would then have to buy them from whoever you buy slots from. What will have happened though is they will have closed down a competitor.

With regard to load factors, everymonth is 2002 saw more passengers travel with Buzz then the previous year. The first drop in pax figures over the previous year came in Jan 03, when this outrageous fiasco was first announced.

We had the "bye bye Buzz" staff party last night. And very good it was too. I doubt when Ryanair closes (and its time will come) there will be so many tears shed over the end of an airline (well perhaps, but tears of joy......)

LD Max

30th Mar 2003, 08:08

Please see http://www.balpa.org

I think Ryanair's attitude stinks. The latest issue of the Log from Balpa, reprinted a Q&A issued by KLMuk on instructions from Ryanair:

Q: If a member of staff refuses to sign the offer of a new contract of employment by Ryanair with different terms and conditions effective 1st April 2003, would they be made redundant or could they volunteer redundancy?

A: If any member of staff refuses to sign the offer of a new contract of employment with Buzzaway they will effectively terminate their own employment. Redundancy in such circumstances does not therefore arise.

Q: Would this refusal to accept new conditions be seen as non cooperation by an individual and consequently result in the closure of Buzz?

A: Yes, and if sufficient Buzz people refuse to sign the new contract then Buzz will close.

Q: I am currently receiving medical treatment under the Company private medical cover scheme, will this continue after 1st April 2003?

A: No.

Q: If staff volunteer for redundancy rather than accept new terms and conditions, could this jeopardise their mortgage protection?

A: If staff refuse to sign the contract they won't qualify for either statutory or voluntary redundancies.

Q: How can Ryanair make staff redundant or advise on which staff will be made redundant when they don't own the Company?

A: Staff who refuse to sign the new contract on or before 14th March will be dismissing themselves with no entitlement to redundancy with effect from April the 1st. All other staff who are being made redundant on April 1st will be advised in writing this week as soon as we receive the names and addresses from KLMuk.

Q: What aspects of the Air UK pension scheme will not apply after April 1st?

A: All of it.

--------------

Of course this is all against the Law, but that doesn't seem to bother Ryanair.

So Balpa are asking their members to post messages of support to fellow pilots in Buzz and to let them have your views on the "Ryanair way". This is Balpa's... http://www.balpa.org/intranet/Media---Pr/03-03-17-Response-to-O-Leary.doc_cvt.htm

BEagle

30th Mar 2003, 13:59

Firstly, my sympathies to all the buzz folk. Travelling with you was always a delight. I've only travelled with O'Leary's lot once - but after the way he's treated buzz, never again! I don't care whether it costs twice as much to fly with a different airline, I just don't want to do anything which will add one brass farthing to RyanAir's profits. Call it cutting one's nose off to spite one's face if you like - I call it having principles.

LD max - you say that 'All this is against the Law'. But against whose law? British, European, Irish....?? Who would bring the case to court? And what would be the outcome - a fine which would be shrugged off with barely concealed indifference?

Whilst the actions of the Dublin taxi-driver may seem to be more akin to those of a Victorian mill owner than those of a 21st century employer, who is actually going to stop him behaving like this - and how?

Flake

30th Mar 2003, 18:51

As a resident of Bournemouth, our local paper has just been completely full for the last 2 months of people with Buzz BOH tickets, all whining and generally making themselfs well known pizzed of pax.

The appearence of the ryanair manager is now very limited, poor thang must be hiding as much as possible, becuase he'll get interrogated.

I do feel for the peeps that are going to be left without a job as a result of Black suit BMW driving instant profit seaking moorons.

I do agree with timzsta, i am not a fan of ryanair, as now many people aren't. Buzz where ran very well, I dont see ryanair particually succeding with there headless chicken approach.

ratbag

30th Mar 2003, 19:07

LD, well worth consulting the "Which Guide to Employment Law".

Looks to me, having read it, that what is proposed is legal, no matter how unsavoury it may be.

Flywheel

30th Mar 2003, 22:42

Hugh Effo,

Thanks for your update. What is worth remembering is the law of unexpected consequences, and if the Sale falls through for whatever reason and MOL thinks that he can just pick up all the pieces and put "humpty " together again, he may be in for a shock.

Firstly, and probably lastly, if starting from afresh as opposed to inheriting, he would have to convince all the authorities that he was a " fit and proper " person to hold a UK AOC ........need one say more ?

moleslayer

30th Mar 2003, 23:19

I know there is still one day to go, and the regulator hasn't gone pubic yet, but it would seem KLM want out at any price. Maybe even give it away.

From todays 'Times Online'

March 30, 2003

Ryanair cuts Buzz deal by 25%
Frank Fitzgibbon

RYANAIR, Europe’s biggest low-fares airline, will reveal that it has acquired Buzz, the KLM subsidiary, for between €18m and €20m when the deal closes on Tuesday.
This will represent a discount of up to 25% on the €23.9m price mooted when the acquisition was announced at the end of January.

It is understood that the subsequent due diligence process uncovered greater than anticipated losses and higher than expected costs, leading to a reduction in the cash outlay.

The reduction has been accepted by KLM and is not the subject of dispute.

When Ryanair first announced details of the acquisition it annoyed KLM management by claiming that the net cost of the deal was less than €5m.

Ryanair calculated this figure by subtracting the €19m in advance sales that Buzz was carrying in its accounts.

Since then, however, Buzz has taken a decision to refund the entire pre-paid amounts to customers.

Ryanair will still hit the ground running, however, when it relaunches Buzz as part of the Ryanair network on May 1 following a complete closure of the Stansted-based operation in April.

Pre-marketing of the new routes to be developed on the back of the acquisition has netted three months’ worth of sales believed to be more than €20m.

Many of the tickets have been sold at half the rate that Buzz was charging.

Herod

31st Mar 2003, 00:32

BEagle, the answer to your question as to who will be pursueing the case in court is BALPA, who have pledged full support to all members who are being illegally dismissed.

CarltonBrowne the FO

31st Mar 2003, 02:06

BEagle, there is a way of buying tickets with Ryanair and not helping their profits.... it is not a method I would advocate, but probably effective.
1. Buy a cheap suitcase.
2. Fill with old clothes that you don't mind never seeing again.
3. Buy the cheapest Ryanair ticket from the airport nearest you- destination unimportant.
4. Go to airport, check in, hand over suitcase as checked baggage.
5. Wait till they start calling your name for boarding, then tell them you've changed your mind.
Admittedly, you'll have paid for a ticket with them, but the delay will probably cost the company more!
As I said, I do not suggest you do this; I never found the nerve myself, but it is a potential nuisance that the no-frills carriers are particularly vulnerable to.

inquisitor

31st Mar 2003, 02:51

It is interesting that Ryanair want a discount at this stage, since the due diligence procedure was finished a month ago. What makes it more interesting is that I have heard from within Ryanair that they were feeling very smug about having got Buzz so cheap. It is obviously the FR way of doing business.

Turbo Thrush

31st Mar 2003, 05:22

Smug is not the word for it, from what I have heard from within Ryanair they were actually shocked to get it so cheaply in the first place.

Moneyshot

31st Mar 2003, 05:59

Just don't know how Ryanair have got away with it. Bunch of tax dodging, upstart cowboys come out of nowhere. Irish Airline with a UK base, hiring pilots from god knows where. Manage to destroy a fine upstanding British Airline (call it Air UK) And nobody says a dicky bird. No wonder they make a profit if they're allowed to break all the rules. Methinks they must have something on someone or they're just taking the p**s and seeing what they can get away with. Where are the relevant organisations when you need them?

411A

31st Mar 2003, 06:40

Gosh, wait a minute...maybe they are.

They seem to offer what other airlines disdain...reliable low cost transportation. Perhaps not to the exact city-centre location, but the price is right.
And if the boss expects that the employees (including flight crew) perform a reasonable days work, for reasonable pay, what's the problem?

Too many prima donnas sniping from the outside perhaps?

Mini mums

31st Mar 2003, 06:41

What MOL is doing to Buzz and it's staff is just disgusting. To anyone who's career/job is being ruined by this man, my most sincere sympathy.

What I'd like to know is where is the CAA when all this is going on? They are the regulatory body and they just seem to be sitting back any watching.

Does the Campaign Against Aviation read pprune? If so, please will you do something about this man, and protect this airline.

I hope BALPA can protect it's members from what appears to be happening, or it really is a very concering trend for the industry.

Please tell me what I can do to help stop this - letters to the CAA, government, MPs, there must be something.

bmi baby crews watch out too . . . MOL has you next on the list.

heavy glider

31st Mar 2003, 07:40

i think what ryanair have done with buzz is damn clever! turning around an airline that was pouring money down the toilet and offering jobs to the poor staff who have been let down by klm. ryanair are going to get so big in the next few years that fares will be practically free and that has to be good news for all passengers. you people who would choose to pay extra to fly another airline just because you don't like mol are just shooting yourselves in the foot, wasting your own hard earned money! most people vote with their feet, and ryanair are attracting more people everyday, which means more profit and a higher share price. ryanair is the true winner in europe and i think they are great.

pancho

31st Mar 2003, 09:46

Ryanair, upstart cowboys...? Only been around since 1985. Tax dodging...prove it pal. Irish airline with many EUROPEAN bases...whats your beef with that eh..need a UN resolution? Hiring qualified pilots... you got a real problem with that..., take it up with the authorities. Destroying a fine upstanding British airline (call it what you want)...come down to planet earth pal, it was going out of business and was run by the Dutch. What rules are been broken? Oh yes, I forgot, screw Joe public for all you can. Are you for real or just taking the pee eh ?:yuk:

BEagle

31st Mar 2003, 12:05

Many people feel that, by travelling with RyanAir, they'd somehow be supporting the Dublin taxi driver's actions. That makes them feel guilty and leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

And it's madness to expect people to spend longer on a bus getting to their intended destination from whatever cow pasture in the middle of nowhere they've been dumped at - yes, like where-the-hell-is-Hahn....

inquisitor

31st Mar 2003, 14:01

Heavy Glider
Asset stripping is not clever. Buzz is not being turned around it is being liquidated. True, some staff are being offered jobs, but this is because Ryanair needs pilots and not because of any legal or moral obligation toward the staff. The clever part of this take-over is in the way KLM is being manipulated by Ryanair. KLM have no pride, they are now doing most of the dirty work for Ryanair in advance of the sale.
Also I fail to see why airfares should be inversely proportional to the size of the airline. I think it more likely that, heaven forbid, when Ryanair have a virtual monopoly they will raise fares. This will not be good for passengers.

Dewdrop

31st Mar 2003, 14:25

Sorry guys it may be painful, but some facts have to be stated:

1. If FR and the service it offers is so cr@4P why will 14 million passengers fly with it this year ?

2. If its so badly managed why will it be the most profitable airline in the world this year ?

3. Why does it have one of the best pilot pay/roster packages in the industry ?

Its called success ! Successful airlines will prosper, old fashioned Dinosaurs with staff who long for the 1930's culture and attitudes will not. We have to change and adapt, or we become nothing more then DoDo's.

People have short memories, airlines come and go (they always have and always will), you might work for the greatest outfit in the World but if it doesn't make a profit it has no right to exist.

This arguement will never be popular with pilots, because quite rightly they are concerned with technical excellence in their field, but you need to have an airline to sell that excellence to.

If we are not careful the British/US airline pilot will become a thing of the past, as is the British/US merchant seaman. We need to be flexible and realistic in these diifercult times.

OK you can now do your worst, my tin hat is in place.

inquisitor

31st Mar 2003, 15:20

I don’t think that it is unreasonable for me to expect my employer to honour my contract of employment. If that makes me a dinosaur so be it, remember dinosaurs ruled the Earth for 1000 million years, we have been here only 3 million. Furthermore they didn’t leave such a mess.

eng123

31st Mar 2003, 17:08

Just what are the terms of your contract,inquisitor? If it's that your employer can never make you redundant,then I'm sure we would all like that.
From where I am sitting,it would appear that KLM will shut down the airline with or without Ryanair.If RYR do not buy it,600 will lose their job's.If they do,200 will lose them and what's more,those offered job's will earn more money.Surely that's better than shutting the door's with all out of work? Isn't it? Having been made redundant before,I know what it's like and sympathise with those affected,but it is a business after all,and one that as has been said before is doing very well.Those on here that truly believe that it will eventually close are not living in the real world.Like it or not RYR are here to stay.
The 'where the hell is HHN' issue is well and truly tiresome.When will people realise that,as has been said before on this thread,that people will vote with their feet.The routes to and from HHN are very successful so it tends to dis-prove all the nonsense spoken about this.
I think people should wake up to the fact RYR are here to stay,and are every bit as proffessional as any other airline and that it also employ's many people who enjoy working for them,who earn an extremely good wage and that number include's myself!

timzsta

31st Mar 2003, 19:37

This started as an interesting thread as to what may happen to Buzz in its dying hours, but has developed into the usual pissing match that occurs whenever the word "Ryanair" is typed into this website.

For those who are in ignorant bliss, the matter about contracts is like this. Buzz employees who were told they are keeping their jobs were to be TUPE'D into a new company called Buzzaway, which Buzz would then sell to Ryanair. Buzzaway would then operate a number of Ryanair services, in Ryanair colours, but under Buzzaways AOC. Ryanair have then said you are not to sign the Buzzaway contract of employment you are to sign a different Ryanair contract and if you dont you will have dismissed yourself and will not get any redundancy. There is no getting away from Ryanair have acted illegally.

Is it not to late for the deal to be scrubbed and a more descent and upstanding business person to come in and take over Buzz? If I was as such and had the money I would do the following:

1. KLM take the 146s of my hands - they seemed quite happy to do this for Ryanair.
2. Initial operation for the summer would be with the 6 737s from ILFC, possibly get hold of the first two 737s as well (see below).
3. Get a new marketing team in. Its harsh but the present incumbents failed to get enough people on the planes.
4. Start limited scale operation by late April so as not to lose slots. Initial routes to Berlin, Murcia, Paris, Frankfurt (with a strong "flying to the heart of Frankfurt not the Hahn) campaign, Bergerac, Poitiers, Limoges, Jerez, Bordeaux and Marseille.
5. Full operation to start again by mid May (say for May half term holiday week).
6. Make inquiries as to going back into Bournemouth (the punters are not stupid, they know this was Ryanairs doing). Possibly get hold of the two Pembroke 737s (ZA & ZB) to do this.
7. No more consetionary rates for KLM positioning crews on the Amsterdam. They pay the going rate, and as they are often booked last minute it will make a few quid!
8. I wouldnt be worried about Ryanair already selling tickets on routes operated by Buzz. They needed the Buzz aircraft, slots and crews to do this, they wouldnt have them. Treat them with the disdain they treat others - shut up and put up, or take us to court. They would soon back down. Any pax who have booked with Ryanair on so called "buzz routes" would be offered special rates, ie £1 plus taxes, provided they present there Ryanair confirmation to Buzz reservations.

Thoughts???

Dewdrop

31st Mar 2003, 19:47

And this is different from what FR has done ?

Herod

1st Apr 2003, 04:32

Dewdrop and others. try and get this fact straight. There is no real compaint about the fact that Ryanair are taking over buzz. The complaint is the fact that LEGALLY he takes over the existing staff contracts and then starts to NEGOTIATE (defined as a two-way consultation process) to change them to the ones he wants. This he has not done. Do you have a contract ? Whatever it may say, don't you expect it to be honoured ? Or do you feel the employer can just tear it up whenever he feels like it ? That is what is happening.

heavy glider

1st Apr 2003, 06:30

i guess i am not the first to hear that bmibaby are next on the list for ryanair? are bmibaby losing money too? is there any truth in this? i guess mol wants the slots from EMA, plenty of easy money to be made there using the ryanair method.... EMA/DUB in itself could be as popular as STN/DUB. watch this space.;)

Anti-ice

1st Apr 2003, 07:00

Sheer pure arrogance . . .

" Power Corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Good luck to all at Buzz :D with this kind of treatment

Dewdrop

1st Apr 2003, 14:25

Herod - I agree with what you say but would again stress two points :

1. Is the structure of the sale the transfer of an existing business ? (sounds straight forward but in the case of Buzz it seems not).

2. If something illegal is being done as you state it needs to be challenged.

rumflier

1st Apr 2003, 17:23

see release put out today by ananova:

Union leaders were seeking urgent meetings with Ryanair today after the airline's expected take-over of low cost carrier Buzz failed to go ahead.
The Irish airline announced last night it was still waiting for final clearance of the deal from the Office of Fair Trading.
All Buzz services ended today although Ryanair plans to reopen 13 routes on May 1.
Hundreds of jobs are being lost and many workers turned up at Stansted Airport in Essex today expecting to receive redundancy pay.
Many of the former check-in staff and other administrative workers have found other jobs but were left "confused'' by the latest development.
Ed Blisset, an official with GMB Union said: "It is a complete mess. These people were told they were going to be made redundant and have made other arrangements.
"They are being treated despicably and we will do our best to try to find out what is happening.''
Ryanair said it had received "enormous assistance'' from the OFT and did not expect difficulty in obtaining clearance for the deal "in due course''.

moleslayer

1st Apr 2003, 20:14

BBC Online @ 1400

Buzz takeover delayed

Ryanair is keen to restart Buzz flights
Ryanair has said jobs are at risk unless it gets "urgent" approval for its takeover of rival low cost operator Buzz.
The deal had been due to be cleared by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) on Tuesday.

But a decision has been delayed until 28 April, amid continuing competition concerns.

That would leave Ryanair just three days to complete staff training and other preparations before the planned relaunch of Buzz services.

Job threat

Both Ryanair and Buzz's parent company KLM have said they cannot envisage any problems in gaining approval for the deal.

But in a statement Ryanair warned it needed a decision urgently "in order to save the core operation of Buzz and preserve up to 130 jobs at a time of crisis in the aviation industry".

Without OFT approval, Ryanair can not legally operate Buzz services under the Ryanair umbrella.

Ryanair announced in January it would pay KLM 23.9 million euros (£16.5m) for Buzz.

Earlier this month, the Irish company announced a rescue plan for Buzz which would see 440 jobs lost but 13 routes saved.

Ryanair cancelled all Buzz flights in April to prepare for the relaunch.

OFT response

The OFT said it normally allowed 45 working days to make a ruling on a takeover, which would take it 28 April.

"It is not a hard and fast rule - something may happen before then," an OFT spokesman told BBC News Online.

"But more to the point, Ryanair did not approach us with details.

"Normally, the parties will come to you with detailed statements on what they are planning to do.

"In this case, we approached Ryanair. That may explain why it may be taking longer than expected."

The spokesman said the OFT would be looking at Ryanair's decision to cut jobs and routes among other issues.

A Very Civil Pilot

1st Apr 2003, 21:09

Dewdrop

regarding the points in your last post:

1 It is the the transfer of an existing business from KLMuk to buzzaway. The reason for this is that Ryanair do not want to buy all of KLMuk, and some of KLMuk's current work is on behalf of KLCuk. The bits being sold are TUPE'd to buzzaway, with Ryanair buying the shares in buzzaway.

2 Alot of illegal actions are going on, and yes it will be challenged.

freightdoggy dog

2nd Apr 2003, 17:27

Ryanair getting a shafting, shurely not. What goes around comes around me thinks:p

Flywheel

2nd Apr 2003, 19:03

411A,

if the boss expects that the employees (including flight crew) perform a reasonable days work, for reasonable pay, what's the problem?

The problem ( one of many) is that Michael O'Leary is offering the pilots NEITHER their original Terms and Conditions, NOR the (good) Ryanair pilot package - no comparison with South West I'm afraid.

Flightmech

2nd Apr 2003, 19:31

Sad times indeed! Six 146's and a 737 parked in a line northside and another 146 tucked away near the delta stands. RIP Buzz.

moleslayer

10th Apr 2003, 23:13

It's Not Over Yet !!

This report by Katrina Manson
Edited by Susan d'Arcy - Directions
The Sunday Times - Travel

Warning on new Ryanair routes

An airline watchdog is warning travellers against booking tickets on 12 routes advertised on Ryanair’s website.
The routes were formerly operated by Buzz, which Ryanair has been negotiating to buy since January. The deal hinges on approval from the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), which has until April 30 to decide whether or not to refer the takeover to the Competition Commission.

The Air Transport Users Council (AUC) has accused Ryanair of jumping the gun by offering departures from May 1 to Bergerac, Berlin, Brest, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt, Grenoble, Jerez, Limoges, Murcia, Poitiers, Toulouse and Tours.

It says Ryanair “is trying to plan for something that is not yet in its gift to give. The only advice we can give to people is not to book.”

It adds that if the OFT refers the takeover to the Competition Commission for a ruling, the flights could remain grounded for another six months.

Ryanair says it expects the OFT to rule very shortly, and that people holding bookings for May “need not worry”. However, it refused to comment on whether or not it would reimburse customers should approval not be forthcoming by next month.

More than 170,000 customers have already been adversely affected by the cancellation of Buzz routes by Ryanair during this transition period. Some former Buzz customers intend to sue Ryanair for damages for expenses incurred because of the axing of the routes. There have also been complaints about difficulties booking a special offer Ryanair ran for Buzz customers.

Moley.

timzsta

11th Apr 2003, 05:50

Hey BEagle it seems someone has been removing our posts. Seems like they dont like Buzz around here, or havent got a sense of humour...

BEagle

11th Apr 2003, 06:04

Yes - I'd noticed that as well.

On the question of naming airports, I had to give a presentation about use of airspace in the South-West. "The RAF Tanker force occasionally practise pairs approaches in VC10s at RAF St Mawgan. Which some of you might know as Newquay International - or for RyanAir, London-Newquay" quoth I. Much sucking of teeth from the audience - until I added "...or perhaps that should be Frankfurt-Newquay?". Which had them chuckling!

Did the ST really allege that RyanAir were offering departures to Frankfurt? Or did they mean that cow pasture nowhere near Frankfurt. Which some call Hahn, others Frankfurt-Hahn - and yet others where-the-hell-is-Hahn?

Again - hope that there is good news for loyal buzz people very soon.

Danny

11th Apr 2003, 20:37

BEagle, timzsta, do me a favour and stop your incessant whingeing every time I have to remove some of your posts from this thread. The TOPIC is about the employee situation with regards to the Buzz/Ryanair situation. The thread IS NOT about how close Ryanair land to the city centre of Frankfurt.

If you continue to ignore the fact that having a rant about O'Leary or Ryanair just because they don't land within x miles of some city centre or other then I will have no problem in deleting all your hard work in writing those posts. Want to rant about Ryanair and their route structure then take it to the Airlines, Airports & Routes forum. Better still, take up your argument with the trading standards department near you and see if they will make a case for you for misrepresentation.

Your incessant whittering on about how cr@p you think Ryanair is because of which airports they use is cluttering up threads about more important issues. I don't hear many Ryanair pilots complaining about the routes they fly. It is not relevant to this thread or even this forum. Give me a break puhleese! :rolleyes:

Jack The Lad

12th Apr 2003, 01:13

ROFL...There you go BEagle...The BOSS has spoken! Best heed his advice and stick with the issues at hand!

You might rant at MOL, but don't try it with a pig that can fly! (No offence there Danny)

BEagle

12th Apr 2003, 01:51

Due to the route structure which used to be offered by buzz, my personal quality of life was improved substantially. Regrettably that is no longer possible at the price I used to pay; I was very happy to fly with buzz because they were a great team who flew where and when I wanted at a price I could readily afford. I am delighted that many of them will now remain in employment and wish them well with their new careers.

But I won't be meeting them again because I won't be using their service - it's back to LH for me. I wasn't aware that the title "Buzz v RyanAir at the 11th hour" referred purely to terms and conditions of future employment; if that's the spin you want to put on this thread then OK, I'll abide by your definition.

PS - and thanks to all those from buzz who have sent me such kind PMs. Hope it goes well for you all in the future!