AACS is too Quiet!

[HEAVYWHALE]

You guys haven't said a thing about AACS in a long time. What's going on over there? Are you guys happy? How's the Union Organizing going?

Let us know!

[HEAVYWHALE]

Don't you think that it's funny that all the AACS guys who were so vocal a few mo's ago are silent now! After a few mo's out there online or should I say, sitting on their butts, that no one wants to say a thing about AACS. By the way, the Main Line pilots have no thing to do with it! It seems to be all Atlas Mgmt's fault.

I'd like to know guys! How about it? How is it out there? How many guys do you have now? Are you flying In and out of the U.S. like Mgmnt said you wouldn't be? Or even better are you guys flying point to point in the U.S.? Are you guys flying with Main Line Atlas Pilots, like Mgmnt. said you wouldn't be? How's it going out there guys?

How about it Hyfly? Let me know what you're up to!

P.S. Like any good lawyer, don't ask the question unless you know the answer!

[This message has been edited by HEAVYWHALE (edited 17 January 2001).]

[Blue & White]

In case you haven't noticed, there hasn't been a lot of posting on the Atlas Pilot's site either. In the past, there were 20-30 postings a night, now only a few a week.........so what's up? People given up hope or what?
Has MC gotten the upper hand or, as rumor has it, in financial trouble? How's the atmosphere on the mainline side?

[WhaleDriver]

What Atlas site are you talking about? The Alpa Atlas site is alive and well. The other site has been slowly dieing anyway, knowing that MC and company have been given access by some scum on the property. Atlaspilots.org served its purpose well and the WebGuy is to be commended!

[BJBATMAN]

Maybe you guys could help me with a rumor I heard today. Atlas cancelled interviews in The US and is only currently hiring Overseas pilot (England,Taiwan). Say it isn't so!!

[Move_It]

Listen.....MC wants to rule the cargo world and he will....all airlines go through this Union vs. MGT struggle and Atlas is no exception...... MC is just taking a lesson from his pal FS. The Fed Ex pilots folded at the last minute just like the Atlas pilots will. There is nothing new happening here and all you are seeing is history repeating itself.....just calm down, sit tight and buy a ton of stock

[Roadtrip]

If you wager on the Atlas union caving-in, you're gonna to lose that bet. While Atlas has a stellar bottom line right now, it's business is still subject to economic decline, just like the airlines that it wet-leases to. MC is shrewd, but is letting his huge ego get in the way of smart business.

[LimeyAK]

Moveit, one quick question.

What makes you so sure that the Atlas Pilots will "fold"?.

The FedEx crewmembers played chicken with Fred Smith and blinked, he threatened to out source all of his flying and succeeded in persuading the crewmembers of that.
Atlas operates 37 747's, between management and the AACS boys (and girls) they could forseeably operate 5 of them until they all started running into time and duty problems, two weeks tops.

Who has the lift to take on the other 32 airframes?, Gemini, World and Polar are all busy with their own flying, AFX is a joke, so who?.

The other difference is Atlas isn't flying it's own freight, it has customers who if they even caught a hint of possible work action would take their freight elsewhere, something MC will NOT let happen.

Course, its all just my opinion......

Cheers, Lak

[CargoRat2]

Sorry to butt in, not a 5Y person myself. AFX fly (well as best they can) for CLX. Thats coz CLX wanted nothing more to do with 5Y (and maybe v.v).I heard a rumour that 5Y have lost Alitalia, MASKargo about to be cancelled, and how much longer will the UK Govt allow your N495MC to continue with BA?
Just wondering...

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rgds Rat

[Intruder]

Rumors about cancellation of mainline class dates have been independently verified by several sources, though the company has yet to officially admit or publicly disclose the alleged fact.

AACS hiring for STN is apparently continuing in anticipation of an impending mainline strike. Are the AACS interviewers yet disclosing THAT fact to the interviewees? How many AACS new-hires _really_ want to be strikebreakers? Personally, I don't think many do...

However, this is the first I've heard about AACS hiring for Taiwan. What's the scoop?

[Move_It]

Perhaps you are right LimeyAK, but facts are facts....... MC will begin a furlough of mainline Atlas Pilots soon, my guess is between now and 5 weeks from now....and between 50 and 100 aircrew....... this will be perfect leverage against the other Atlas pilots who cannot get a job with United, NorthWest, American..... to pause and be grateful for their existing jobs and existing conditions.....to accept a low grade contract.

You Former Eastern and Pan Am and Mark Air pilots at Atlas Air who are negotiating for the rest of the Mainline pilots are selling them short and letting your own ego get in the way like MC is.....

Bottom line is that I will be right...... you watch..... Furlough ...... and when that happens.... I will be back and foretell the rest of the Atlas Air future......for it is not the future that I will be telling... its just history repeating itself

[LittleBubba]

OHHHH, I'm shakin now... Moron, they can't even crew the flights now, I'm sure makin less crews available will help.

Go back to the sandbox and play,

[Beaver Driver]

What do you think guys. Is "Move It" AAMT management? That'd be my guess. Stirring the pot a little. Either that or he is just some ill informed idiot. Either way he is not worth the time it took to write this.

Rat your facts suck. No talk of cancellation of either of those contracts.

[Magic Blue]

Well guys,I hope it all gets sorted and they give you what you want.A strike is the last thing we need as you guys operate a -400F for us.Never heard about losing MAS or Alitalia though.Also Rat I heard that you guys are about to show AFX the door,is that not true.

[LimeyAK]

Well Move it, it sounds like you are of the informed type, as we are supposedly all under one roof with the AACS folks, they were the last hired and therefor should be the first to go if there ever is a furlough, no?.

[palerider]

I kind of doubt that AAMT would due the old furlough thing. That would probably get the National Mediator to release us for our 30 day cooling off period for not negotiating in good faith. Secondly, if we are one big happy family like the Atlas Management team says, then they will probably have to furlough according to its own employee handbook which probably puts all of the AACS crowd out first. If it does not happen that way, I see another winning lawsuit coming.

I just found out a couple of hours ago that Atlas is going to be present at the DFW Air, Inc. job fair. I do not know if they are looking for STN people or US guys. Probably US guys since the location is in the states.

[This message has been edited by palerider (edited 19 January 2001).]

[411A]

Suspect that MOVE_IT has the correct information. Also suspect that MC will use the upcomming (already here) recession as an excuse to "turn the screws". TradeWinds has already parked 4 aircraft due to "NO business". Can Atlas be far behind?

[The Guvnor]

411A - the Tradewind L1011s were parked because Interlease ran out of money - they were simply using TradeWind's AOC. Not sure what they are doing with the A300s, though!

As for who goes first in the event of retrenchments, I'd say that they would be from Mainline rather than AACS as AACS is a separate company, set up for specific tasks. Of course, if the downturn - or cancellation of the BA contract - hits AACS, the converse is that it wouldn't result in Mainline job losses.

Just my 2c worth, anyway.

[Beaver Driver]

411.
Ignorance is bliss. You and Move_It must be really happy.

Gov.
The AACS guys all carry Atlas ID cards, not AACS. I've been telling you for months that this (AACS) was a US company. Atlas management does indeed consider AACS(STN) just another ATLAS base, as you can see from the open invitation for mainline pilots to bid there. I doubt seriously if there will be a furlough. As palerider says, that would result in an immediate 30 day cooling off period, which as you all know is the countdown to a strike. I think when push comes to shove MC will prove himself to be more astute than the Lorenzo clones he has hired.

[411A]

GUVNOR
Actually, I was refering to the A300B4 FREIGHTERS that they have parked since January 05. The TriStar pax aircraft have been parked for sometime. The cargo business declined in the USA by over 5% last year, but international increased by more than 15%. The question is, will Atlas be able to keep up their present business let alone expand. If the domestic cargo curve goes flat for an extended period then it will be "goodbye" to any effective collective agreement at Atlas. Of course, some here will bury their heads in the sand and believe the ah...."lies" that ALPA will feed them. I'm in management so I know how the management types think.

[Roc]

UPS just started a class of new-hires, about 6 out of 25 were from Atlas, at this rate they'll be nobody there to fly anyway

[palerider]

411A,
I wouldn't worry too much about the domestic US cargo. We have always had more cargo coming into the US and the cargo we hauled from the US just repositioned the aircraft. Just check the US import export levels from the Treasury Department and not just my six years of flying at Atlas. All but one of those years at Atlas had record setting returns.

Roc,
I wish I was going to UPS. Dealing with the BS Lorenzo management types and their pawns at Atlas and AACS is getting old. If the numbers are correct, I have heard that there is a 37% turnover of pilots within the first year of employment at Atlas. I have had offers in Asia, but they seem to have the same expat - versus union employee problems coming to a head just like Atlas. I would never put myself into one of those AACS versus Mainline Atlas situations.

[CargoRat2]

Dear Beaver Driver: You mentioned that my facts suck. If I remember correctly I asked if the RUMOURS were more or less correct ref cancelation AZ/MH contracts. If not, well thanks; question answered.
Magic Blue: I believe Polar offered us their new -400; they did one flight for us this year; both parties satisfied. I'm told however that they are too expensive for a regular deal. So, looks like continuing with AFX for the moment (nice blokes to work with).

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rgds Rat

[Magic Blue]

Rat,had heard the rumour on the Polar,thanks for confirming that.They are using -400Fs on the atlantic routes as the pacific routes are quiet.Also heard that you guys spoke with Atlas last month on buying spare hours on one of their 400s to be leased to another carrier with only partial utilisation.
Back to the subject,I hope that you guys can resolve your differences.You do a dynamite job for us,long may it continue.

[CargoRat2]

Magic Blue: I just dropped you an email.

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rgds Rat

[Move_It]

I wonder........ When the furlough begins (mainline olny), will you want me to tell you what will happen next, or will you still think that I am a moron?

[411A]

Go ahead MOVE_IT, you should tell the 'uninformed" what will happen next. Think you have been around a long time (like myself) and have seen it many times before. New guys have a lot to learn and, the older ones there should know better.

[Ct.Yankee]

In an effort to keep stirring the pot the following are the Rumours de Jour:

Current AACS 200 FO's are being retrained on the 400. No more hiring at AACS is planned this year. Check the hammerhead at Hahn mates!

[This message has been edited by Ct.Yankee (edited 24 January 2001).]

[palerider]

Company avoided answering if it was an AACS crew operating the 747 that slid off the runway in Hahn. So it probably was.

[This message has been edited by palerider (edited 25 January 2001).]

[Big]

You don´t like them AACS guys, do you?
If you were offered a position while jobless, would you take it?
Or would wait for another airline offering you a position and stay home?
Stop all this sh... and enjoy flying. You´ll sleep better.

[SKYDRIFTER]

D E N V E R - 24JAN2001 (AirlineBiz.Com) According to reports, a
jet piloted by Michael A Chowdry, Chairman, President and CEO of Atlas
Air crashed today near Denver. There was one other person on board who
was also killed in the crash. The jet was a L-39 Czech jet trainer
which took off at 11:20 a.m. CST. There were no eyewitness accounts
until 11:27 a.m., when another aircraft reported that the plane had
crashed just south of Interstate 70, about five miles from the airport.
The plane was based at Front Range, six miles southeast of Denver
International Airport.

For this and other news go to:

Airline News Wire: http://AirlineBiz.com/wire

[palerider]

Big,

If it isn't obvious, I do not like the AACS guys. Yes I have been unemployed with a family to feed due to furloughs and company bankruptcies. Yes, I have turned down jobs as a strike breaker i.e. EAL. I have retained my character and still provided for my family without screwing a fellow pilot at the same company. I can't say the same for the AACS guys who are taking away upgrades for my junior comrades and are to be our replacements when we strike.

[partyreptile]

per the reference to the Atlas -200 that departed the runway at Hahn in December, it was indeed an AACS crew, confirmed by a loadmaster working at Hahn on the day it happened. Funny how the mmgt at Atlas has kept this particular episode quiet--most have no clue it happened. Something to hide?

[Big]

How did you provided?
Maybe I like the idea and instead of working, I can stay home and enjoy life... No, I don´t think so. My problem is that I LOVE this job... and the cancer of this bussiness, (I´ve been through two airline closings already)has always been the same: UNIONS. Great job guys. Keep on fighting for OUR rights... or YOUR idea of how a company MUST be managed...
Why don´t you just go FLYING and really ENJOY LIFE?
If you don´t like it, you can always quit and let your juniors progress... you´ll provide anyway, don´t you?
Blue skies, pal!

[palerider]

Big,

You are a fine example of the infamous "pilot whore." Always looking for that bigger aircraft to fly and not giving a flip about who you are screwing in the process. It seems I have heard all your lines from scabs at two other carriers. The excuses never seem to change and those guys end up regretting what they have done. You seem to be of the same mind as them.

See you on the line----Pal

[Big]

Sorry palerider, wrong move: I´m the other way around! I was flying the bigger airplanes (B-737) and now I´m flying a "big ATR72". (in the airline I fly for, the 72 is the big one).
Is not a matter of how big, is how much you enjoy it. I don´t mind flying an ultralight or a heavy jet, as long as is flying. And I´ve been in this bussiness more than twenty years already and I like it more and more... no matter the size.
Have fun!!!

[Move_It]

Please go to the first page of this thread and read the 11th post (my second)

It begins

[KaptainKangaroo]

What are you saying? Atlas is furloughing?

[411A]

Kaptain K---
The US domestic cargo business is NOT likely to get any better anytime soon and Atlas, with 12 aircraft parked, what do you think?

[LittleBubba]

Heard the BIG F word earlier today, feel sorry for some of the guys that have not managed to escape yet..

[KaptainKangaroo]

I hope they'll pull it off. Their future seemed so bright not too long ago.

If this place goes down, management doesn't have to look very far to find someone to blame!

[Hunter58]

And all these nice gentlemen who were so outraged about 'scabs', 'union busting', and so on and so on are flying for LH today, as the (unionized) LH pilots are on strike. Not that I support the outreagous pay demands of VC Cockpit, but what the nice gentlemen from 5Y are doing, isn't that the classical UNION BUSTING thing?

You're real SCABS! (By your own definition!!!)

------------------
There's nothing like a three-holer...

[clamdigger]

if there is a furlough, shouldn't the last crews hired be furloughed first? and wouldn't that be the aacs crews?

[Silver Thunder]

Hunter58

Please excuse me, as I understand it LH pilots have voted for a strike.

They are not presently striking.

When they are striking, or plan to, all they have to do is have their union contact ALPA either directly or via IFALPA and request mutual assistance. We can't assist without a request. And because Atlas pilots don't presently have a contract we would risk job action (dismissal) for refusing a flight.

If you call us scabs, what about the other Star Alliance partners that may carry re-booked passengers?

[Beaver Driver]

H58
One of the little things you have overlooked is the fact that AACS is flying Atlas planes. 5Y pilots are not flying LH planes. VC hasn't yet contacted IFALPA or ALPA. Without a request from them we can do nothing even if we had a contract, which we don't. Not having a contract means we have no protection, which means we can't do anything that the company doesn't agree to. For us to support VC at this juncture means we would have get permission from the company. At this stage of our negotiations I don't think that would happen. They can barely stand to talk to us now, even when they are forced to by the mediator.

[CargoRat2]

Silver Thunder. LH were on strike 10 May. 75% of all LH flights xxld according to German news report. Some 40 freighter flights were cancelled.

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rgds Rat

[HEAVYWHALE]

Hey,

Hunter, Can I ask you a question, and I'm dead serious when I ask this, do you think that someone who flys during a strike should be in fear of there own safety?

If so, there is no way I'm going to fly into a potentially dangerous situation! No way! I don't care what the company tells me to do, no way am I going to jepardize my own safety.

Get my drift? I'm not flying anywhere near CV! :)

I hope that all my fellow pilots wouldn't put them self in a dangerous situation either!

[Hunter58]

Heavywhale

no worry. European unions are usually not so agressive as US ones. That was so in the wild 50s and 60s, but they stopped that socialistic tradition of picket lines. And they understand that you are going to get fired if you fly, so they let you fly, as it is not your fault that you are the person who is scheduled for this trip, but the crew scheduler's. But they will vivdly remember the company who did it. ANd the next time an Atlas air guy walks into LH, there will be a lot of mental resistance. Basically, LH does already not like Atlas, so any new flying is getting harder and harder to get, as pilot resistance within LH will raise and raise. Europeans do things much more subtle. Why use brute force when you can get better results by using the brains in the long term!

Beaver
what an excuse! You just proved my point. See the freight hogs forum!!!

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There's nothing like a three-holer...

[DCBOE]

Just thought you yanks should know, AACS is hiring right now,check out Flight International, 1-7 may, CIRRUS AVIATION, want 747-400 Cpts and f/o,s, Cirrus is AACS!.

[Intruder]

Any bets that Cirrus / Atlas VP Mike Bull also 'is' GSS? Can you spell "Effective Operational Control," boys & girls?

[HEAVYWHALE]

This is the nastiest fight aviation has ever sceen, and we're right in the middle of it! If they think that this will break us, they have totally underestimated us.

I feel like Slim Pickens riding the nuke in!

All I have to say is, "yyyeee hhhaaaww!!!!"