BBC News: Pilot fined for terror threat

[Pax Vobiscum]

BBC News | Scotland | Pilot fined for terror threat (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2800799.stm)

[Rumble]

Total tosser, deserves everything he gets; £1000 not nearly enough.
In a climate when many of us are fighting for our jobs because of Jo publics reluctance to travel, comments like this are totally inexcusable.

[Avman]

Well I'll be very interested to see how you professional aviators react to this one. Personally I think that no matter how frustrated he was about his face-to-face confrontation (and I DO sympathise with the frustrations of dealing with job's worth administrators) he showed great imaturity in dealing with it the way he did. Consequently, I would question his maturity and ability to remain calm in an emergency. Oh, and if this had been a member of the public I guess you would all have said "let him rot in jail!"

[B Sousa]

Sounds like this guy did not know the world has changed a bit since 9/11. Its refreshing to see there are people out there that make comments more stupid than some of mine.

[Sunshine Express]

"he intended to fly an aircraft into the building - which is next door to a school"

I thought that they were over reacting - but next door to a school,
my word, he should be linched.!:D

[brain fade]

Well.... I've flown a lot with this guy, which is probably more than most who'll post here.
He's a straightforward normal sort of pilot who made a boo-boo which he'll no doubt never forget.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!

Never said anything that you wish (about a nanosecond later) you hadn't?

thought not:rolleyes:

[Ranger One]

What I want to know is, what in hell, exactly, did the council DO to him to provoke the outburst?

Perhaps brain fade can advise...?

R1

[B767300ER]

This guy was a complete idiot, period.

I'm suprised he kept his job, to be honest.

[Cold Soak]

Never said anything that you wish (about a nanosecond later) you hadn't?


On this scale of stupidity? I certainly havn't, have you?

No. Thought not.

Incredibly lucky to keep his job.

[145qrh]

I also know the chap concerned, like "brain fade" said we all say things that we later regret.

Hopefully this will be an end to it, and he can get back on with his career.

[ATR42 Guy]

The only mistake this guy made was to say something that would allow the people he was argueing with to get the upper hand. He was obviously pushed to the limits of his temper control and made a futile threat which he never intended to carry out. I strongly suspect that the people he was dealing with knew that too. This exchange obviously has nothing to do with the man's ability to perform his duties as an airline pilot. None of you who are slagging this bloke ever lost your temper then eh? I suggest you keep quiet, you weren't there.

My advice, don't get mad, get even mate.

[unwiseowl]

I bet the provocation was severe. Also, I can't imagine that anyone actually believed he would carry out the threat. Remember the good old days when you would have been laughed at for making a complaint about such a threat? Maybe the world needs to get back to reality and stop trying to be so PC(oh, I do love a good rant)!!!!!

[Slim20]

What a load of cr@p.

Talk about much ado about nothing. How many idle threats are offered in the heat of the moment that are never ever intended to be carried out (eg "I'll kill you one of these days" etc). Are we then to expect the Gestapo at our door every time we speak out of turn?

As for the professional pilots point of view, i'm with brain fade. We are all human.

[Seloco]

Most of the posters on this thread show admirable tolerance and understanding towards a fellow human being who had a momentary lapse of rationality, whilst apparently under intense and unusual stress, and threatened an extreme action that he was unlikely to carry out in spite of being notionally capable of so doing.

I would like to think that similar tolerance and understanding would be shown to any air traveller who made a similarly unguarded outburst on the spur of the moment whilst undergoing the intense and unusual stress that can occur these days when trying to catch a flight in an overcrowded airport or discover the truth behind why one's flight has been delayed or cancelled.

Somehow though, I doubt it!

[brain fade]

Ranger
For info i believe it was a dispute with the local Council over 'Council Tax'. More than that I don't know.
I must say tho' that slagging this guy off for shooting his mouth off is a bit like slagging someone off who's involved in a flying incident. there, but for the Grace of God go any of us!:}

[BRUpax]

Well said Seloco! It seems that some of the above posters are advocating one rule for aircrew and another for pax. Regardless of the circumstances, in the present climate, to have vented his frustration in the manner which he did was inexcusable.

[Captain Airclues]

I agree BRUpax. It seems to me that some people are advocating double standards. Several airlines have banned passengers for life for making unwise comments at security. Recently a passenger was jailed in Australia for making what he thought was a humourous comment on an aeroplane.
If somebody said that he was going to come and burn your house down while you were in it, then you would go to the police and he would be prosecuted. Is this not what, in effect, this guy was saying?
He may be a nice guy, but that is not the point. He broke the law through his own stupidity and should accept the consequences.

Airclues

[Tripower455]

While I can't imagine why a pilot would make a statement like the one above, I also wasn't there to witness the context in which it was made.

Pilots in the states have been jailed for stating obvious facts when their personal toiletries were pilfered at passenger screening checkpoints.

There should not be a double standard. How about a common sense standard?

[Bigscotdaddy]

I agree with the advocates for a little commom sense here.
When I heard about this I thought that it was a rather silly thing for any aircrew to say - especially nowadays, but when I heard who had made the remark, I was doubly surprised!
I know Ken, he is normally the most level headed sensible of people, and though not condoning what he said, it was always crystal clear to anyone who knows anything about him ( and that probably includes the council officials who complained), that there was never a snowball in hell's chance that he was in anyway serious.
If you intend to carry out a threat like that you don't do it face to face with the intended victim - especially when he knows who you are and where you live.
I also agree that there are many people prosecuted unecessarily for similar offences - mainly because they are complete strangers to the people that they are making the remarks to.
Political correctness can diminish the seriousness of the genuine threats that are with us these days, and we really need to concentrate our attentions on those who really are a threat.

[strake]

Absolutely right Seloco...!
A few weeks ago I saw a guy arrested at LHR for getting into an argument with a bolshie Despatcher. Luckily, a number of us (including air-crew) saw what happened and protested vehemently. He was released by the Police with a warning he did not deserve...presumably to save face. He could so easily been carted off as a "threat to security" and sentenced accordingly.
Given the tense situation since 9/11 and the terrorist threats currently being experienced in the UK, this Pilot was dealt with very lightly indeed. There is no excuse, surely what's good for the goose must also be good for the gander!

[PA38]

Why did he bring up the fact he was a pilot:confused:
I have a very interesting job that carries a little bit of sway in public offices;)
No matter WHO I am arguing with I NEVER mention what I do to scrape a living (no not a policeman).
Perhaps his ego carried him away, something we have all done or nearly done.
But sometimes revenge is sweet just to see the reaction people who suddenly change their veiw:D

[Neo]

We might all have good reason to curse our local authorities once this year's council tax bills land on our doorsteps, particularly in the south of England. Hopefully most of us will choose a slightly different means of protest as a result of reading this thread!

[Unwell_Raptor]

If the reports above are correct, then he abused his professional position to threaten public servants in connection with an issue that did not involve his job. He brought his employer and his profession into disrepute - he also called his own judgement into question.

I have no comment about the court case, but I think that almost any employer would be entitled to dismiss an employee who behaved in that way. And they should.

[slim_slag]

On a more practical note, how is this guy going to be able to fly a plane to the US when he has a criminal record of this nature? I cannot see the US DOJ, or many other people, being too keen on him flying around our major cities. What about other countries declaring him persona non grata? There is also somebody with his name living in Glasgow with an FAA PP-AMEL. The TSA have power to revoke certificates now, with a 'terrorist' (and like it or not, that is how they will see it) conviction this would be a slam dunk. A great shame.

[View From The Ground]

Agree with some of the posts that this matter seems to have been totally blown out of proportion. If anybody needs to be dealt with it is the petty council officials who saw fit to take an ill judged remark like this to the police.....hmmmm me thinks they were getting there own back because the individual concerned had the temerity to question their authority. I also agree with some others that just as these council employees were guilty of the big I am approach...many in aviation including pilots and groundstaff....can be guilty on occasion. We should show the same degree of realism and understanding when pax make unfortunate and stupid comments in the heat of the moment. A moment without thought should not condemn anyone to a criminal record, except where actual physical harm takes place. As others have quoted 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' Myself included!!!!!!

[Bigscotdaddy]

Thought provoking post from Slim_Slag

However, I believe he was convicted of 'Breach of the Peace', which is probably regarded in the U.S. as a Misdemeanor rather than a Felony, and as such he probably wouldn't have to give the reasons for the conviction to the Authorities.

Still - just shows you what the ramifications of one ill judged remark can be!!

[swish266]

What about pax who, being unhappy with cabin crew/service/particular airline decide to **** on their seat in biz class (this is quoted from an interline circular on air rage)? Should they be banned for ever from flying?
I don't mind being quoted "that after 3 years flying for Vietnam Airlines I will go back there only on a B-52 with nukes"...

[GustyOrange]

As an airline passenger I can't believe that he has held onto his position.

If I was to make similarly stupid remarks in my profession I would lose my job and licence immediately, and quite correctly so.

As several posters above have said, if similar remarks were made by pax they would be off the plane and in jail very quickly.

Nice guy or not he was very stupid.

Gusty

[fmt3]

No doubt about it, as stated earlier the bloke's an absolute tosser and its a shame that he is associated with our professional carreer which he likes to bring to the attention of his local council. Pratt! Should have been sacked and licence taken away.

[peterbuckstolemymeds]

Yes, he lost his cool and -- chances are -- would never carry out his threat.

Yes, it probably was a momentary aberration from this chap's normal behavior.

Yes, we should prolly agree that nobody's perfect (I sure as hell ain't).

And yes, we might feel some sympathy for him.

But remember this: the courts and prisons are filled with people who have done something stupid on the spur of the moment or when they are angry.

And there have been three cases in the last decade where ATPs have committed suicide, taking coworkers and pax with them (SilkAir, EgyptAir, and some Moroccan outfit, if memory serves... )

He made a terroristic threat and, at the helm of a 767, was technically in a position to back up that threat.

So, unless we are prepared to see cops keep their jobs after a single conviction for stealing, or see teachers keep their jobs after only one instance of child molestation, this guy has to go.

MyTravel: Fire him.

2cents precisely.

[Few Cloudy]

The people who compare this guy's case to a passenger making an unsuitable remark at security are way off the beam.

Where did this fellow make his statement? At security? In an aircraft or a public area of an airport?

No! It was in a council office! I hate council offices, and I hate them even more when I see what petty jealous little bums will do to ruin a bloke's career. Aided and abetted by other vindictive bits of work, along the security chain, evidently. Shades of the third Reich.

What is indefensible is his shouting -and behaviour but that is not a terrorist threat, nor is it a security matter.

Now if I had an aeroplane, I might feel inclined to drive into -- oh, er perhaps not...