View Full Version : easyjet pilots to strike??

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9th Jan 2003, 10:00
A formal" failure to agree" notice has been served at easyjet by the pilot union BALPA over pay and rostering negotiations which have been ongoing since last April. Whilst management have awarded themselves £10 million in bonuses, pilots are still negotiating a pay rise for last year and are having to put up with the most horrendous working practices in the industry. A private internet site is polling pilots if the working conditions are affecting their home life, which is a measure of just how bad things have become. The next step is to be face to face comminication with the CEO, Ray Webster before a ballot on strike action. Easyjet prides itself in its company culture ethos of being "fun to work for". It seems the fun went about the same time as the IPO. What a strike will do to the share price is obvious. My question is , is the CEO acting in the interest of the share holders by going down this road?

9th Jan 2003, 15:03
The ballot can't come soon enough. It is high time the management found out what their workforce think of the working conditions.

9th Jan 2003, 15:18
tin tin

There can be no ballot until the CEO has met with the Gen Sec of Balpa. This is a legal requirement.

So it's all down to when they have space in their diaries I guess.

I lay money on Webster's diary being quite full for a few weeks yet......or am I being cynical?

9th Jan 2003, 17:13
Well well, news travels fast.
I wonder If EZY managenent are going to take note now or are heads still going to be buried deep into the dunes?!
Interesting few months ahead.

carlos vandango
9th Jan 2003, 18:13
was Webster not a 'union buster' in the sunnier hemisphere? Pistols at dawn methinks.

9th Jan 2003, 18:31
tin tin

It's up to Balpa now not the company council.

They're the experts who drew up the agreement in the first place!

9th Jan 2003, 22:01
Hear hear!

Well said tin tin!

10th Jan 2003, 09:58
Looks like Jump is looking attractive for WEBSTER.
Engineers want 12pc .
Looks interesting!:cool:

Pilots now need an agreement which will last the next 5 years!
Which means keeping the crew food.
A realistic pay rise.
Proper rostering which hasnt been designed by someone on day release.
Profit share or further options similar to Ryan.
Better communication between the shed and its crews!:cool:

Certainly NO erosion of our present terms and conditions!

10th Jan 2003, 10:46
Well don't rely too much on BALPA . We had the same scenario with "Failure to agree" and standing conferences. Then BALPA saying they would ballot the membership, what was on offer was unacceptable, followed by a month of silence and then total capitulation. I hope this doesn't happen to you guys and wish you all the luck in the world.

10th Jan 2003, 15:08
Which Company?

11th Jan 2003, 14:59
What total rubbish produced by the school teachers paper!:cool:

11th Jan 2003, 15:03
Ask any Aussie or Kiwi pilot about Ray Webster and the pattern with easyJet becomes all too familiar.

Apparently Webster was involved in some shady dealings 'down under' which allegedly were corrupt - at least that is what I have been told.

Self-interest and personal wealth are the Webster objectives - which he has now achieved it seems. Maybe time to retire and let someone else sort out the problems which are about to ensue. No doubt he will avoid the issues himself and make Jim Pegram the Flight Operations Manager the sacrificial lamb to be slaughtered on the altar of pilot discontent.

Watch your back Jim the smiling assassin may be just behind you!!!


11th Jan 2003, 15:38
mjenkinsblackdog - I agree - taking eJ's own figures off the website, this figure comes nowhere near what the top earners are raking in.

Airborne Base Instructor basic £70,500
Luton Allowance £ 2,000
Sector Pay (420 @ £21.99) £ 9,236
Loyalty Bonus (5-10yr bracket) £ 7,050
Medical Contribution £ 280

Making a Grand Total of £ 89,066

So, as my old Dad told me a long time ago, never believe what you read in the papers......

11th Jan 2003, 15:56
Spanner - <<Self-interest and personal wealth are the (edited for libel) objectives >> : So what's your reason for going to work then?....not just for the good of mankind, I hope.

11th Jan 2003, 17:28

Have you read the article?

Interesting that you choose a top level trainer, at LTN, with the highest seniority. A small percentage of the pilot workforce.

The article states that "EJ pilots earn around £85k" = FALSE

It goes on to say pilots work 5 on 3 off = FALSE

It further says pilots fly 40 flights a week = FALSE

Finding the true bits in the article is actually quite a challenge - but what do you expect from the Guardian?

Looks like your old dad was right!

fred peck
11th Jan 2003, 17:39
It's not simply a money issue, would that it was!

The beef is about t's & c's, rostering practices, disruption, fatigue, crew food, etc etc.

Pilots earn what they earn due to market forces.

But we shouldn't have to be slaves to a company to earn our salary.

11th Jan 2003, 21:31
Dont do it,
Look you moron the average Captain would be on 60k plus 14/15k in allowances.
Even you can add that up!
It doesnt come to 85k as the guardian is saying.
Engage a cell before throwing out complete Bs.
Bye Laddie!:cool:

Are you related to WEBSTER!
Or even worse sims!

Oh of course your a journalist on 120k plus car plus expense account!How could I forget!Not to mention cosy meals with ej management!
Finally the odd free ticket!
Let me know if ive left anything out!:cool:

Ps Pilots have regularly be doing 7on 2off.Yet another error in the article.
Plus you failed to mention that management have just had a 10 million pound bonus shared between 40 individuals.

Easyjet pilots are merely after a reasonable deal.Without having their terms and conditions eroded by people in the shed.
Ryanair nearly had industrial action until MOL decided to sort it out.
Easy is going down the same road.

11th Jan 2003, 22:03
mjenkinsblackdog - If what you say is correct, and the average Captain can add on 14k/15k in allowances, that would make even my figure of £89-odd thousand a bit on the low side.

Applying your figures to mine, that means there are those amongst your number who are raking in a stonking £96,000 per year.

I hope you're not one of the BALPA team being sent along to chat to those who pay you; just in case you are, remember that lucid and well-reasoned arguement will always triumph over cheap jibes and personal insults. Or maybe you too failed the verbal reasoning test for one of the real airlines?

11th Jan 2003, 22:10
look you dont work for easyjet and you have little idea what you are talking about.
I suggest you take photos of Jordan and stay off this subject.:cool:

By the way !
Who do you work for ,or as I suspect you wouldnt dare put your real name to such rubbish!

Bye bye laddie!

An average Captain would gross 75k not 85k as you suggest.
If you dont believe me ring up easyjet personnel yourself!
You didnt get a maths O level laddie!

11th Jan 2003, 22:35

60 + 15 = 75

Now, that wasn't difficult was it?

Tomorrow we'll look at taking away!

Why do you want to use the 5-10 yr bonus figure when that does not apply to over 90% of the crews?

Why do you choose Airborne Base Trainer as your example?

Why choose LTN as your example of a base?

Becase you want to inflate the figures..........of course.

Like I said, listen to your dad.

11th Jan 2003, 22:43
FlapsOne - As I said at the start of my post <<what the top earners are raking in>>, never said anything about "average" salaries.

If you do choose to go down the route of strike action, you can bet your ass that the papers will quote "top whack", don't expect any sympathy from the public or the media, even if you are one of the ones struggling by on a meagre £75,000.

12th Jan 2003, 05:04
we dont expect sympathy.
Bye bye laddie!:cool:

Bet you are really struggling.
or are you the chap with the little white dog selling The Big Issue!:cool:
Or possibly a deluded guardian journalist who hates pilots!

12th Jan 2003, 06:53
My heart bleeds for you easyjet pilots. I just don’t know how you make ends meet on that rotten salary you get each month. You complain about your pay and rosters but does those rosters include the ego trips that you all seem to be on. My Daddy taught me if you don’t like how you are being treated then get another job.;) ;) ;)

12th Jan 2003, 06:55
Good luck to all of you guys/gals at (not so) Easyjet.

Beware though. Found ourselves in a similar position in Bransons 'fun to fly for' outfit a few years ago, only to have BALPA accept a crap deal apparently on 'our behalf'. Yes they are supposed to represent the pilot, but be careful of the advice they dish out. All CD and his assistants managed to do was to seal my short term future along with many others with the airline, whose only effective vote was to walk. BALPA had only just been recognised, against the wooly wonders wishes, and we, the pilots, were very nieve and unprepared for the BS machine the company let loose. Better prepared and informed now, hear that V pilots may be contemplating similar action.

Be focused and don't give up space to the 'Prune stalker' morons winding things up.......good luck.

12th Jan 2003, 06:58
ltn man,
Fact is you wouldnt have a job if it wasnt for the pilots!
We merely want a deal which reflects the market rate without eroding our conditions.
I suppose your one of the 40!

Plus when was the last time you worked 7 days straight!Never,so please dont lecture us on rostering.Its been a shambles since98.
Now it must be sorted out!

Finally,your customer services at Luton are a well below par.
I can count on one hand how many 25minute turnrounds have been achieved since gp2000.

As you are obviously a frustrated ground person.May I suggest you cough up 60k and get a licence.
Bye bye laddie!

break dancer
12th Jan 2003, 07:16
Where do the ex go people stand. They're still on the old terms and conditions which were OK. Will they be going on strike? As previously mentioned, all the crews want are decent lifestyles, which a stable roster will give.

If stability can't be provided, let your feet do the walking, and management may then realise that it's pointless having the largest low cost fleet in Europe without the crews to fly them.

Easier said than done, but if you're there prostituting for the money, pretty soon you'll get shafted up the a...

Stan Woolley
12th Jan 2003, 07:45

I don't think that money is the problem, people here are relatively satisfied with their salaries.

They do however recognise when they are being treated with utter contempt while simultaneously being bombarded by propaganda assuring them they are a vitally important ingredient of this 'people' company.

So that's TEN MILLION for us chosen few.......and the rest of you can all poke off!

I don't expect sympathy but please don't stereotype us all as greedy fat cats before checking out a few facts.

It's FAR from only the pilots that are unimpressed. :rolleyes:

Flap 5
12th Jan 2003, 08:37
Flanker is correct. MJenkins was more accurate in his first post. I have never known such amateurish rostering. The staff in the office have no idea of flying the line. They are all stuck in front of their computers all day. Crew food is pretty basic. How can they consider taking it away when you have no access to food up at 33,000 feet? I notice the office staff have given themselves a nice caffeteria.

12th Jan 2003, 08:58
The answer to the company taking crew food away is simple.

Every aircraft gets shut down and the entire crew takes an hour’s lunch break, the same for breakfast and dinner.

In the company I work for, when our very own hatchet man started floating the idea about removing crew food, the above solution was mentioned and he quickly forgot the idea.:)

12th Jan 2003, 09:00
I don't know how many postings do I have to include here, before someone recognises that we've all been had.
All those pretty roadshows and chats about the most revolutionary airline etc, have simply been lies.
It's a money making machine for the top few. It's a hard working environment for the rest of us. Pay aside, we've been treated like crap for too long.
This thread is about strike.
Why not strike. This will teach the top few that without us they have no bonuses, no jobs, no airline.
Let's get this sorted, or I'll be leaving.
Are YOU gonna stay?

Fatter Cat
12th Jan 2003, 09:13
I think I speak for the majority of the Essex Dept of easy.

At present morale is virtually non-existant , except for a few putting a brave face on things, which is very sad, cosidering go was a genuinely happy ship previously.

The office is being culled on a daily basis, and roll on late January, the OPs department heads off down the M11 to Luton. I dread to think of the consequences and fallout from that.

The pilot workforce are again at a low, with the general opinion being if there was anywhere better, we'll be off. Alas, at present there isn't. Quite a few sniffing after Ryanair, and why not!

Rumour on the street is that our contingent from over the Irish Sea aren't too chuffed as Ryan Air are, quite rightly not extending their staff travel scheme for too much longer. Why ..., because Easy won't reciprocate. And as a result the commute for many becomes too costly.

The Belgians, mostly ex-Sabena, are apparently looking at a few of the new German low cost startups, which apparently are quite attractive to some. So there could be a few spare seats there too.

Apart from all that, everything is just fine! And how to fix it ..........., try starting with a stable roster and sorting out the pay deal. Up to the takeover, I believe most people were financially happy with GO, but being sr@wed about has a price.

All this uncertainty and secrecy about what is happening is having a most destructive effect on what was Go, and the sooner it is sorted the better, before there is no-one left.

12th Jan 2003, 09:44
Is Ray Webster acting in the interest of the company institutional shareholders if he allows the pilot workforce to strike? This to me is the key issue. Pilot lifestyles are worth nothing to easyJet, but share price is and our ability to affect it is terryfying. Before we strike, our institutional shareholders have the right to call an extaordinary general meeting and re-elect the board( minus the current CEO).
We have bitched about rostering since this airline was conceived and as usual this thread has tracked off on our favourite topic.We can talk about what we WOULD LIKE until eternity but now the time for action is approaching.It is time to examine our options and finalise a battleplan. The time for all this carping is over. Lets Roll

Few Cloudy
12th Jan 2003, 10:13
I take it you've sold yours' then POJ?

12th Jan 2003, 15:23
Full text of Gaurdian article:


Worth noting that the threatened strike at KLM UK was very effective. Even one day of cancelled flights at easyJet would wake the management up to the value of their staff.

12th Jan 2003, 15:56
If easyJet pilots want to strike then they are going to catch their airline at a vulnerable time. The following text appeared on a business forum and relates to easyJets financial performance. Perhaps the airline won't continue to be so cocky with employees if things are a bit vulnerable.

Company: easyJet PLC
Date: Thu 9th Jan 2003 7:13:58

easyJet chief warns of H1 loss

LONDON (AFX) - easyJet PLC, Europe's largest low-cost airline, will report a
loss for its first six months to the end of March, Ray Webster, chief executive,
said in an interview with the Financial Times.
The airline came under heavy pressure from investors in early trading
yesterday amid concerns sparked by disclosure of its December traffic figures.
EasyJet had a lower level of capacity utilisation last month with the higher
share of empty seats reflecting in part the rapid 44 pct growth in the airline's
capacity year-on-year, which outpaced a 38.6 pct rise in passenger volumes.
"We are watching very carefully for changes in consumer demand, but it is
early days. There is no sense of any problems yet," Webster is reported as
ING equity analysts lowered the bank's recommendation for easyJet shares
from "hold" to "sell."
The bank said the traffic figures were "slightly disappointing" and said it
had "doubts" about the airline's explanation for weak yields in the current half
"We remain nervous of our profit forecasts," the said.


12th Jan 2003, 17:28
Well the journalist from the Guardian has definately been speaking to some day dreamers from the orange shed before writing his article.
Working 5 on 3 off would be great and on that kind of money a dream...

stormin norman
12th Jan 2003, 21:26
"No problems yet" says Webster.Does he anticipate some ?

13th Jan 2003, 06:52
Shares are low only 264 compared to paddy power at 470.
If war occurs scrub another 20per cent off.:cool:
I see Barbie Doll is running a boozer these days as well as writing her autobiography.She came out 9.5 million better from the easyjet Takeover{oops merger}.:cool:

Wet Power
13th Jan 2003, 08:36
As far as I am aware Easyjet have no protection (unlike most other airlines) from likely fuel price rises.

Not very clever.

13th Jan 2003, 09:09
...and only 55% BALPA membership. No chance of a strike at all. No worries, Mr. Webster.

13th Jan 2003, 10:24
Once again your misinformed and have great diffculty adding up.
May I SUGGEST carol voderman books for 5 year olds.
When were you elected as websters dog!

13th Jan 2003, 11:09
The time to sort out EZY terms and conditions,especially roster stability, is now - before company finances crumble completely.

#Load factors are dropping (like all airlines).
#Latest seat sale is selling tickets for £1 plus tax - not much revenue there.
#Problems of integrating GO and possibly DBA.
#Fuel costs not hedged, and probably staying high for a while.
#Introduction of Airbus - a sophisticated aircraft - not as cheap and cheerful as a B737, and certainly not a type that can be run on a shoestring crewing or engineering budget.
#Costs of financing all those new aircraft which have been ordered, and no guarantee that there will be revenue passengers to fill them.
#Resistance from established airlines on the routes that EZY would like to fly - most airlines now appear to be drawing a line in the sand and fighting back with good deals for passengers.
#Incompetent senior management and general moral problems affecting operations.

Next year will be too late for any concessions.

13th Jan 2003, 20:38
Loads are very poor indeed.
When will the city want managers heads for CHOPPING I wonder.
Even BOBBY Ayling walked with 2million after horrendous cockups!:cool:
Shares in the toilet at 258p

Sean Dillon
14th Jan 2003, 07:59
Have you guys seen this thread in the Flight Ops Forum....
Easy Rostering... (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78006)

14th Jan 2003, 08:37
Thanks all you guys at EJ for your posts. Hope you all get what you want eventually, cos it sounds like you deserve it !
I was just about to hand in my notice at FlyBe to join you next month, but I think I'll stay put for a while.

14th Jan 2003, 08:44
Wise move!:cool:

Floppy Link
14th Jan 2003, 08:58
Me too
lost interest after getting an offer and then it all going quiet - no answers to emails, letters etc

A lucky escape methinks

14th Jan 2003, 08:59

Do yourself a favour and come and get good training, join BALPA and support the current easyjet pilots. Also do not base yourself anywhere near LTN.

It might be crap but its better than FlyBE. In fact most of the time its okay its just you have not protectiion from roster changes and management who are happy to let your conditions slide.

The future is bright, i hope :rolleyes:

14th Jan 2003, 10:32
Agreed- stay where you are channelhop, easyJet isn't worth the move.

I've yet to meet one pilot on the essex base who isn't looking for a new job. And it is true that ryanair are cold calling people. What an easyway to screw up easyJet!

easyJet wanted to create the best airline in europe by taking the best of both airlines- it seems they only like to choose bad. Poor staff travel etc.


Fatter Cat
14th Jan 2003, 10:45
I seem to remember a phrase being bandied about during the take-over,... oops, err "merger" , and that was "best practice".

That seems to have been replaced by "cheapest practice"

Last one in , please turn out the lights.

14th Jan 2003, 13:01
And now Nick Watts and side kick have resigned!!

That just about sums it up!!

Max Autobrake
14th Jan 2003, 13:08
Just heard that NW, GO's highly respected rostering manager, who was recently appointed as same under the combined operation, has resigned. This is just about the biggest bombshell that could happen to the pilots in a company which, by all accounts, is about to implode in a big way. I understand that there are about to be another couple of key resignations in the next few days.

All the pilots at GO breathed a sigh of relief when NW got the Rostering Manager job at EZY; why he is leaving is nobody's business but his own, but my information suggests that the company tried to "hush up" this news, mindful of the fact that rostering is the biggest issue, and coming as it does days before the crucial BALPA meeting with the EZY Board.

In addition, 160 cabin crew have resigned over the past 2 months, creating another crewing crisis which has resulted in the madness of positioning LPL EZY cabin crew by taxi to STN to operate three day tours on GO flights!

I spoke to a GO crew in EDI this morning, and they were devastated at the news of NW's departure.

Lord Fulmer
14th Jan 2003, 14:10
Oh dear,

One of the few hopes for a normal future has just been extinguished.

Go , .......Rest In Peace.

Wee Weasley Welshman
14th Jan 2003, 17:43
Made a note in the diary on the way home. Simply reads: buger.

Nice knowing you Nick,


Norman Stanley Fletcher
14th Jan 2003, 17:51
easyJet are being squeezed all round. Although I do not work for them I wish them no harm and wish all my flight deck colleagues a good life and career there. The problem they are facing, apart from management greed, is they have abandoned the low-cost model. The traditional model (Ryanair follows it religiously as far as I can see) is to operate from one place in the middle of nowhere to somewhere else in the middle of nowhere that no one else flies to, call the destination by a famous name and charge very low fares for it. A great plan you have to say.

easyJet have taken the risk of competing directly with the Charters and BA (and more dangerously its franchises) on their routes out of LGW to big-name destinations. These franchises can and are lowering their fares to whatever it takes to maintain their market share. The fact is that everyone has had reduced loads and therefore can take a risk on dramatically lowering their fares. Why travel with empty seats when you can charge virtually nothing and fill up? Ultimately easyJet are not as low cost as they would have us all believe and their competition are not as fat and inefficient as has been presented. I genuinely wish easyJet well, but they are about to enter a battle I cannot see them winning without taking a load of causalties themselves.

There is now, quite understandably, great disunity in the camp as Nero fiddles while Rome burns! Your management have been unbelievably foolish in awarding themselves £10M whilst making a loss for the period in question and attempting to effectively give pay cuts to their employees. Best of luck to everyone in the battle ahead.

won too goh
14th Jan 2003, 18:07
Before you Easy/GO guys and gals rush off to Ryanair, be aware that although the Irish grass is greener ,hey HATE the British to the extent that they critcise pilots for wearing popies for "Armistice Day* they cross out London from the approach plates for LDY and file the plates under "Derry"

The Dublin Ops staff are bloody rude. Probably company policy.
Since the HR dept has been heard to say that " Ryanair hates pilots"

One is ALWAYS required to exercise "Captain's Discretion" and do not even think about refusing to operate four sectors in busy European Airspace without an autopilot.

Flight Safety and flight time limitations are a joke in Ryanair, it probably helps that at least one senior member of the IAA is on the FR board

14th Jan 2003, 20:38
I genuinely wish easyJet well, but they are about to enter a battle I cannot see them winning without taking a load of causalties themselves.

Which 'battle' are you refering to?

14th Jan 2003, 21:02
If this isnt sorted out.Once and for all on the 17th of January.
I feel Easyjet passengers can look forward to severe disruption and a further drop in share price.:cool:
Of course if the trigger happy texan and the mad rag head have a punch up in the sand.You may see M* t*avel hitting the fan!

M* easy T*avel!

14th Jan 2003, 21:34
however, I just found out my pay for 2003 was going down $300:00 a month after the best review possible !!

While I sympathise a great deal with your plight, you have to realize that if the planes aren't flying the customers will find an alternative both to the detriment of the pilots and EasyJet. These are customers you will have to fight to recover. It's a loss-loss for both sides involved.

Much like you said, I had a choice today and I ate my words and became thankful I had a job to feed my family. I sure as hell couldn't survive on strike pay. Just like the late '90s were good for all us, this WILL turn around. My advice is not to hurt the ones you love and the ones who are depending on you.

I could be wrong; I just went with my conscience today.


15th Jan 2003, 09:42

15th Jan 2003, 09:54
How can you take so much hassle ? 5 days ON 3 days OFF is already way too heavy...Normal should be 4 ON 3 OFF which is fine as long as you don't fly too many legs each day.

Your conditions are the worst in Europe for this business (not considering business operations).

Keep courage and fight. Really !

If you don't react just out of fear of losing passengers, management will understand they can use this type of blackmail any time in the future. You will then think it is better to strike a bit early than striking really hard later on.

Wet Power
15th Jan 2003, 10:08
Nick Watts was a big loss to KLMuk when he departed to GO several years ago.

I can fully understand the pilots dissapointment at Nick's resignation from Easyjet.

Why can senior managers not recognise the qualities of such people and do everything (reasonably) within their powers to retain them?

No doubt there is an airline somewhere just about to gain from the qualities that Nick can bring to the job.

Few Cloudy
15th Jan 2003, 11:05
Why do you have to start a new thread for this, when it could well fit into your last one? Just like to have the polemic spread all over the site?

15th Jan 2003, 11:10
Most readers of this forum are not likely to know the answer are they.

If you REALLY want to know how many have resigned why on earth do you chose to ask the question in this public forum?

You are far more likely to find out this info on either the private forum, the EZ Balpa website or back in the crewroom itself.

Maybe you are just headline seeking.

15th Jan 2003, 11:58

Thats conservative old bean.
I was quoted 100k for Captain 75k for Fo.

15th Jan 2003, 12:02
Simple answer to that is that is Greed driven without any consideration for anyone!:cool:

Bob Brown
15th Jan 2003, 13:02
So you are now being asked to do 5 on 3 off. Regardless of # of sectors, what is the total number of hours worked in that time (sign in to sign out)?

Stan Woolley
15th Jan 2003, 13:23

We work 6 on 3 off and frequently that becomes 7 on 2 off with the use of a 'flexiday' affecting early starts or late finishes on the first or last of the three days ' off '.

The company want to take away the 6 on 3 off ' because it is not flexible enough'. Which means that 7 on 2 off will become the norm.

In spite of this the Easy pilots fly nowhere near the 900 hrs limit because we are rostered so inefficiently. So duty hours are way up but flying hours are not (in general).

Most pilots like pilots anywhere are happy to work longer more productive days but ONLY if we are given more days off in return.
Apparently that's much too tricky!:rolleyes:

15th Jan 2003, 13:29
Flanker - good post - 100% clear.

northern boy
15th Jan 2003, 18:10
Hope they have better luck getting their references than I did.

15th Jan 2003, 18:20
What happened !
Didnt they play ball!:cool:

15th Jan 2003, 18:25
It might be cr*p !
How on earth can you recommend something thats cr*p!
Give the laddie a chance and let him decide!
He might not LIKE cr*p!:cool:

15th Jan 2003, 18:39

don't beleive the hype -

15th Jan 2003, 18:53
IM interested in what Northern has to say{if you dont mind laddie}.
I leave the hype and bs to the gay guys and girls in the shed!:cool:

15th Jan 2003, 22:20
I'd prefer to sit in a 737 than wait for BE to go broke. At least you are gaining experience that will help you get into a decent outfit in the future.

Same as you stay at easy rather than quit on principle really.

I am eternally optimistic that things will improve, although not without a big shove from us it seems.

I will be ready to put the park brake on. ;)


15th Jan 2003, 22:46

If George W goes to war a lot of airlines are gong to hit the buffers not just MYT and Easy. I hate to say it but I think our industry is in for a very bad year. Many of us will find ourselves on the street I fear! Frankly this is no time for a strike.

Easy are indeed entering a battle with the charters and BA they won't win in the long run. I hope they go back to what they are best at before it is too late.

As for Ryanair I would not fly as a passenger on one of their aircraft, I have already seen more than enough of their operation to make me uneasy. I suspect it is only a matter of time before they land themselves in trouble by playing fast and lose with the rules.

16th Jan 2003, 00:50
I dont remember easy doing badly out on 9/11 do you.
Mmmmm Virgin ,sabena,swissair,all in a mess.
We picked up a lot of pilots from that!
I disagree{of course}.
We need a real 5 year deal in place.
Thats good for both easy and ourselves in the long run.:cool:

By the way!
I fly ryanair a lot.
Nothing wrong there!

Fatter Cat
16th Jan 2003, 08:44
Rumour on the Streets Of 'Stortford, is that the new Crewing manager , is the Rostering Guru JS (from Luton of course) , famed for last summers fantastic rosters and their almost total meltdown.

Clue?.... When is your next SIM M Session!

16th Jan 2003, 10:48

Easy did very well after 9/11 but as a week is a long time in politics, it can be a life time in aviation! The history of aviation is full of failed airlines that were once the darlings of the city!

MYT/Airtours were not that long ago seen as a rock solid charter company with a soaring share price and a Midas touch, now look at us!

Easy are challenging the big boys in their own back yard and have it seems abandoned the low cost model that has worked so well for them so far! I hope they prove the exception to the rule and succeed where others have failed but all the signs are there that they may not. I hope you get a good deal but beware of strikes, they can destroy a good company.

As for Ryanair, time will tell.

16th Jan 2003, 12:34
Impact on the company's image is the whole point in striking...There is always a good reason not to strike which is risk for the company. Following that, you will never go on strike and will always get s*****ed by management telling you you are putting the company at risk. Your conditions will take a dive over the years and, say 5 years down the road, the slope will be too steep for you to get back to normal conditions.

When I read pilots at EZ go on a 7 ON 2 OFF pace, I feel there's much more danger ahead. At 50, you will be dead or really hurt.

For you own sake and for the sake of pilots in the entire industry, just don't let management mess with you. We surely don't allow that in Germany and our conditions are good. Not that we make more money than you, I think we are roughly on par. It's just that we get so much less hassle for the same money. And we're staying fit, we have time for our families, hobbies, etc...There seems to be such a discrepancy between you at EZ and pilots at all other relevant airlines in Europe.

16th Jan 2003, 12:58

The reason Easy and Ryanair make money is the working patterns they force on their crews. Change that and they won't make money. I agree with what you are saying but the best way to get a good life style is change Airlines, the big question is which one these days?

Extended Range
16th Jan 2003, 13:01
Have heard with the departure of Nick Watts, many flight deck leaving GO. Any truth in this? If so can see myself doing more hours in a taxi this summer than in the aircraft!!!!!

Strike now and maybe we can look forward to a good summer....

16th Jan 2003, 13:10
Good luck guys hope it all works out!

16th Jan 2003, 14:22
We have been trying to sort this for as long as I can remember!
I my case 4.5 years.
Now MUST be the time for a 5year plan,OR more PEOPLE will walk!:cool:

16th Jan 2003, 16:14
Sure, you need a 5 year plan. But why would they sign anything in your favor if they are not forced to do so, at least a bit.

Also, it sounds to me that Ryanair don't use up their pilots as much as EZ and they're still making money (a lot) on a 4 ON 3 OFF basis. Simply because if well organized, that system can only cost an extra 10 to 20 % more on the pilots' salaries volume which is only a fraction of the total costs in an airline. Therefore, paying that extra 10 to 20% cost won't weigh that much in the total of the airline's costs spreadsheet. Another way of looking at it: making pilots happy keeps training costs low (less new pilots), and motivation hence efficiency high. That's why I think EZ's management is making a huge mistake by putting so much pressure on your shoulders. They are going to lose more than what they're going to gain.

And beyond spreadsheet matters, some things just cannot be accepted and I think working anything between 5 days and 7 days in a row in a cockpit is part of it. Period. If they cannot manage any differently, than the whole low-cost concept has to be rethought because, in the longer run, the strain will downgrade performance, make people age faster, and it might even kill early. If nothing is done about it, we'll only realize several years down the road. As usual.

One other thing: Something really nice is to witness management's discomfort and falling self-confidence when they realize aircraft are not taking off anymore and when they are being talked about in the media. All of a sudden, those people who simply couldn't be bothered about important issues get very shaky and quickly get back to the negociating table with much less disdain. Things are just not so easy for them anymore.

After the strike, when a good agreement has been signed, you realise how constructive this has been because it's caused a precedent.

Go for it, you won't regret it !

16th Jan 2003, 17:59
EZY management must know that you've got them over a barrel - Easy Jet is too big now for them to find enough spare capacity to break a strike. Also, the airlines high profile and well known brand will be a problem in case of a stike ie, it'll be all over the papers. I really believe they'll back down before the strike. Good luck!

16th Jan 2003, 20:04
Reading through all those pages, it becomes clear that easyjet pilots seem to be complaining about the same things as the rest of us are: too much work/ too many sectors/ not enough money/ terrible crew meals/.....
To be honest, I think especially with companies like easyjet, you are more than aware of what to expect before you join - after all, that is how they can realize the performance and financial figures. Working 5 days or more in a row is nothing unusual. You only have to take the freight companies. They work either 8 on/6 off or 16 on/12 off (in case of DHL, BRU based - as far as I know). And that's night hours. Does anybody complain there? One thing is of course because they don't have a strong union to do the fighting for them, the other might be that they are quite happy the way things are. Probably a combination of the two. They don't get crew meals either by the way; one possible way around that huge problem (shouldn't be allowed really) is to pack your own little lunchbox and carry it to work in your flightbag. Less fattening too - but possibly too much to ask.
LTNman - your comment of how easyjet pilots get a bad deal in comparison to other 'relevant airlines' in Europe displays -in my humble opinion- quite an arrogant attitude. The last Lufthansa strike pushed through by the union "cockpit" gave those insatiable pilots even more money and benefits, although they were and are the 'creme de la creme' (talking money and niceties here) of the whole German industry. Ever wondered how hard those unfortunate colleagues flying for WDL/Skyteam/LGW etc. have to work for and what they take home at the end of the month? You'd be shocked if you would ever care to look past your own nose. And, although they might also be members of 'cockpit', their needs don't get represented in the slightest way. (No, I don't work for them, just got talking about these things a while ago).
I am sure that there are things to be improved at easyjet, but I am also sure that the whole deal is not such a bad one. If it was such a bad one, there wouldn't be such a mass exodus from other airlines into easyjet. And, as somebody already said - if you don't like it, go somewhere else!
Happy flying!!

16th Jan 2003, 21:07

You may have read the pages but you haven't understood them.

it becomes clear that easyjet pilots seem to be complaining about the same things as the rest of us are: too much work/ too many sectors/ not enough money/ terrible crew meals/.....

Too much work - NO
Too Many Sectors - NO
Not Enough Money - NO
Terrible Crew Meals - NO

Now, how many did you get right?

The root issue is the lack of any agreement on rostering practices.

This is essential because, at the moment, rosters are issued - then changed frequently and hap-hazardly at very short notice. This leads to ridiculously long days with little return (in terms of flying).

We would all HAPPILY fly more sectors if they were sensibly and correctly rostered. The average EZ Captain flew 650 hrs last year but was screwed around from pillar to post whilst doing it.

How often to DHL guys get the lives changed each week?

The crew meals are ok but EZ want to withdraw them completely. With our current scheduling we would have to have freezers the size of Sainsburys to keep enough for the last minute lunch/dinner. 25 min turnrounds don't give time to go and get something from the airport cafe.

When was the last DHL 25 min turntound?

Money has formed the smallest part of the last several months of negotiations. Something circa rate of infaltion and the same %age rise accross the board is all that is necessary. That has not yet been offered hence no pay rise last year.

So please don't generalise. You are way off the mark with your assumptions as to what the present impasse is all about.

We, the pilots, have proposed a skeletal plan - which requires some fine tuning, but that's all - whereby the working pattern for all of us could be vastly improved whilst still increasing our flying hours productivity by circa 150-200 hrs per year.

It fell on totally deaf ears!

Big Tudor
16th Jan 2003, 21:21
Is it possible to post details of the plan here or is it too long? I can't imagine an airline rejecting productivity increases such as these without good cause (unless of course there is a hidden agenda)!

16th Jan 2003, 21:27
In Just over 24 hours we will know what we need to do!:cool:

Pilot Pete
16th Jan 2003, 21:39
Re DHL guys

How often to DHL guys get the lives changed each week?

You'd be suprised, quite often every trip is changed......but, and it's a big but, if you are away from home for 7 days staying in hotels it makes no difference whatsoever which city you end up in each morning! As long as your rostered days away aren't changed, which doesn't happen very often. It's not all sweetness and light though.........................


Rumbo de Pista
16th Jan 2003, 21:58
I can't help feeling that all I'm reading here and hearing in various more formal and measured fora does not add up to 'stability in a dynamic environment'!

desafinado, you wrote:
'To be honest, I think especially with companies like easyjet, you are more than aware of what to expect before you join'

Do you remember the famous EZY adverts asking pilots who were sick of night flying to join them? Or the adverts saying the company intended to be an industry leader in terms of pay and conditions? Are you aware that these poor saps will shortly be kissing goodbye to their seven on, two off patterns when that particular shady deal runs out? Are you aware that the boss who oversaw the construction of the EZY terms and conditions then chose to take another company's terms and conditions as the model for further talks? Do you know that the company only relatively recently decided that pilots would only get two leave periods in the seven months of summer and three in the five months of winter, because it suited them? There's more, and worse, to come.

Thank God I'm chuckling on the sidelines and not caught up in alll this horrid business. These guys are taking another huge step towards the devaluing of the pilot's profession. I used to worry whether my BA shares might not serve me well. I'm stunned that they are doing much better than EZY now.

16th Jan 2003, 22:05
The full plot would be too long.

Suffice it to say it would stop occaisions when we drive to work and go home later having only been to AMS and back! Hardly worth getting out of bed for and a waste of my day.

On the other hand it would get rid of the LTN - PALMA - LTN - EDI - LTN sort of day that makes you yearn for your bed before you even drive home!

Comfortably within FTLs, it involves making practical and sensible use of our allowed time 'in the saddle' and minimising or abolishing time in the taxi between bases or on an unnecessary standby duty - sometimes only put in to stop us having a day off.

All this was/is achievable within a 5/3 arrangement.

I believe, but don't quote me in court, we offered the 'services' of some willing pilots to the rostering dept (for an initial trial period) to try and make it work.

We all work hard, and could work harder IF it is sensibly organised.

I (we?) cannot understand why the idea wasn't even considered.

And yes, it is different if your trips are changed whilst you are away from base anyway. If I'm away from home anyway I couldn't care less - as long as I don't have to completely re-organise my sleep pattern every 2-3 days because someone got it wrong!

16th Jan 2003, 22:20
Might be worth a word with Mervyn Granshaw at BALPA. He did a deal on FTL with Brit's that worked very well as I understand for both the company and pilots. Improved the crews life style and saved the company money.

Might help just a thought, it would give you a working example of how things can be improved, and still save the company money.

17th Jan 2003, 03:28
Guys & Gals of Easyjet

I know that it’s real easy (no pun intended) looking in and commentating from a warmer and sandier location but in a former life with a UK employing airline, I was involved, with many others, in a potential strike position similar to your own.

Uncannily, the issue was not money but lifestyle quality (or lack of) produced by basing and roster issues – could it be true that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it?

Again by mysterious coincidence, our “management” was of the true British mould, being top-down, obdurate, arrogant, dismissive and greedy – sound familiar?

Relations between the indians and the chiefs rapidly became rancid and the inevitable ballot produced an overwhelming mandate for a strike forthwith, unless serious negotiations for change, along the lines proposed by the pilots, was entered into.
This ultimatum was naturally ignored by the “powers” and a date was duly forwarded to them for the first total withdrawal of labour.

So legend has it, the “management” then huddled round, fished out their empty fag packets to make their calculations on the back of (standard procedure for everything) and worked out:
(a) the ₤millions that would be hemorrhaged in that first strike day alone
(b) the effect that a prolonged strike would have on the company’s profitability and much more importantly, on their own personal annual bonuses
(c) the pilots’ proposal could actually save the company money
(d) they would look complete horses a*rses in the subsequent enquiry conducted by the shareholders, if the strike went ahead.

Result? Negotiations proceeded in a serious and businesslike manner, issues were resolved, the company saved money (jeez, some of these pilots seem to have more than three grey cells between them!) and peace and productivity reigned.

Lesson? If you all stick together, stay focused on the key issue, mean it when you say strike and fully comply with the national industrial relations legislation, then, as the taxi driver says, “you’re speaking the only language they understand, guv” and they can only sanely respond in one way.

So stay together and you won’t have to strike.

Top 10
17th Jan 2003, 05:40
If any of you are interested, as you don't appear to be a happy lot, for the last 2 weeks, and only in the local wekly 'Pravda' internal newspaper, BA have been asking for any interested would-be co-pilots to be based LHR/LGW ; criteria - current JAR ATPL or frozen ATPL ....oh, and 'the personal attributes that will make a positive contribution to the Flt Ops team' ...etc unquote.

Anyone interested.


17th Jan 2003, 05:53
Might just have 200 fos interested!
Will that do!:cool:

Flap 5
17th Jan 2003, 08:47
Flaps One,

25 minutes turn round? Have they increased in Scotland then? :)

17th Jan 2003, 10:34
FlapsOne - no need to get too excited or agressive about these things! After all, all those points I picked up on(work/sectors/money/meals) were mentioned and complained about in more than one of the replies. And, funny enough, in your own one a bit further down where you complain about days with too few sectors (AMS and back, not worth getting out of bed for) or too many. As I said, all sounds very familiar to me, seems to be pretty much the case wherever you go. Might be just me again though, reading but not understanding it. Sorry.

17th Jan 2003, 11:10
I've got to agree with kinsman,
It is not in the interests of either pilots or the company to have roster instability. The quicker that management realise that it is in their financial interests not to mess peoples lives around. If you've rostered a crew efficiently in the first place a change of programme reduces that efficiency.
Block Standby’s are the only proper way to keep the programme stable.
You would have thought that the rest would have seen what was happening in "Brits" and learnt from it.

17th Jan 2003, 15:29

My argument was that you quoted TOO MUCH work, TOO MANY sectors, NOT ENOUGH money and TERRIBLE crew meals.

Those are quite clearly NOT the issues here, hence my comment about your understanding of the problem.

We would happily work more hours/sectors for a market rate pay rise IF and ONLY IF it is better organised (rostered), not chopped and changed around so much whilst retaining crew food (the standard is acceptable - just like any airline food!).

This hightlights one of the major difficulties in industrial relations - LISTEN TO WHAT WE ARE ACTUALLY SAYING, NOT WHAT YOU EXPECT US TO SAY.

18th Jan 2003, 00:28

I understand todays meeting was a failure so looks like next stop a ballot ?

Constant Speed DU
19th Jan 2003, 08:08
Totally agree with you flaps one. Last week, rostered to do 7 days on with 2 off. How many days were changed? SIX!!!!!!Minimum rest on three accounts. My rosters for the last couple of months have been stable at being unstable. Two months ago, I asked the rostering dept not give me a roster as there was clearly no point whatsoever as every day, except my days off were always changed. I think something needs to be done and if it is a strike, we should definately do it and not be put off by the management. If they were subject to our working hours etc, they would undoubtably be long gone! Actually, they probably wouldn't be! They'd wait for their 1/40 share of 10 mill and then foxtrot oscar!!!!Lets see what happens!

A lot of large company managers work on the principal of getting first hand experience of how their pilots are treated and rostered etc, by flying with them on the line for a number of weeks. Maybe the managers at Easy should be given the same rosters, which reflect the average pilot's month. They might find that family life might be a bit different.

I'm not bitter or twisted, but they really are taking the pi**

I think that everyone who reads this thread and works for EZY, should express whether or not a strike would be a good thing and whether they would ACTUALLY do it!!

19th Jan 2003, 09:13
I only did 1 (one) day that I was rostered to fly in December, then the changes began, but most of the time they gave me 10-12 hours notice before the change. Then one day I got more than min rest (40 minutes extra) between flights so I am happy, because it was not as bad as November.
As you can see it is getting better, maybe I will get 1 hour more than min rest between flights in January.

19th Jan 2003, 09:34
A couple of points that you guys in easyJet need to realise:

1. eJ charges next to nowt for a lot of its tickets. You lot are well paid. How do you think it does this? By working you to the limits of your max allowable duty hours. Simple economics.

2. All this talk of a strike is hot air. You have only 55% BALPA membership. That's 45% of your workforce that won't even be in a strike ballot, plus whatever %age wont join you on the picket line. If you disrupt half your services, your customers will go elsewhere and the airline will go down, you can then have all the minimum rest you want.

3. None of you are conscripts (to the best of my knowledge). If you think it's so bad, just leave. There are plenty more unemployed, experienced people who will do your job.

4. Face it, the honeymoon is over. When things start running out, the first thing is usually the goodwill of the troops. It's starting to look more and more like Air Europe Mark II.

Lord Fulmer
19th Jan 2003, 10:27
Don't, What a load of bull.

If you had bothered to research this you would what the facts are.

1. This is not about money. The salaries that we are paid are reasonable.
Yes we are paid to fly a maximum of 900 hours a year. Divide our pay by 900 and you have an hourly rate. So what, that is basic maths.

At Go , by clever rostering we regularily reached up to 880+ hours, thus achieving good crew utilisation, However at Easy, I don't think anyone gets anywhere near that figure equaling bad utilisation and expensive pilots.

If the rosters are sorted, people can do the same, if not more hours in a shorter period and have more time off, as opposed to having it spread over the available working week.

This dispute is about putting pressure on the shambles known as our rostering department and changing their cavalier attitude to organising our lives and the readiness to change it. If they were organised and had a realistic working plan things would improve. It is because they are allowed to get away with it that they do. To organise it, just requires some organisation, but at present why bother since there is no pressure to do so. By organising an efficient roster and increasing crew utilisation doesn't increase the hourly rate cost. Hence our request for a rostering agreement.

The times of the flights don't change every day so what is the problem.

2. 55% of the workforce is enough to have a considerable impact on 100% of the company.
Hopefully the management wii realise this, before its precious shareholders sell any more shares, and Joe Public goes else where.

3. If there were any better jobs out there, many would.

4. Air Europe? Maybe. A question for you. How is EZ going to fund DBA or indeed the Bus's. Can hardly go to the City in its present state can it! Had better sort out the mess your'e in first boys, before we can sub you anymore money.

19th Jan 2003, 10:47
Two years ago eJ only had 200 pilots now they have 700 so about 500 are bonded therefore many of the pilots simply cannot leave.
Pay looks good on paper. I took a £20,000 pay increase to come to eJ but take home less than £100 p/m increase.
I know that that eJ looks good from the outside and the pilots are throwing there toys out the crib, but spend one day in the LTN crew room and you will start to see how bad it is. 7 airlines and I have never seen such an unhappy lot.
Believe it or not but the pilots are trying to save the airline! In 2 years time bonds are going to come to and end and the rate at which pilots leave will be so fast that eJ will not be able to replace them

19th Jan 2003, 14:56
1. eJ charges next to nowt for a lot of its tickets. You lot are well paid. How do you think it does this? By working you to the limits of your max allowable duty hours. Simple economics.

If you had taken the slightest notice of what is at issue here you would realise that this is the root of the problem.

Now read carefully, Ill try not to use words that are too big!



The strike talk is not hot air. If the CEO fails to make some positive moves by 31 Jan the ballot papers will be in the post on 1 Feb.

If 55% of the pilots strike, as the vast majority of Balpa members are Captains, circa 70% of the flights won't go. A strike can be a few hours, a day, a few days - anything in fact that is considered to have the desired effect.

Man Flex 32.5
19th Jan 2003, 16:02
I was a member of Balpa in a previous company. I left them after a badly handled redundancy deal catering only for the top 200 and swore that i would never return. I have just gone against all that i believe in and rejoined, realising that we need the solidarity and strength. I guess there is about 55.6 % membership now and rising.

Dont doit -- you sound like your full of c**p.

MF32.5 :eek:

Few Cloudy
19th Jan 2003, 20:07
Having had three years with easyJet, let's give a synopsis - purely my view:

- The airline has been expanding like mad since its inception, meaning nothing is quite ready - crew room too small (again) - crewing out of their depth (again) - recruiting and training at white heat - procedures being revised piecemeal - parking overloaded etc. etc.

This happens in all startup airlines but usually catches up with the situation at some point. In easyJet it never did - lots of schemes and promises of how it was going to be and then more aircraft arrive and off it goes again. Nobody has time to look around and see what could be done better because they are all so busy just hanging in there trying to keep up.

Who suffers - well everyone, especially the crews. What easyJet desperately need to do is to call a halt and consolidate. Daily ops needs to be given time and priority - everyone needs catch his breath. Some listening needs to be done. When it's done then future plans can again be looked at - from a base of solid daily operation.

The pity of it is - it's a great basic idea - good, almost new fleet - good engineers - pilots at least as good as I have come across in bigger national carriers and a platform which could make a lot of money if tuned right. After sorting through the polemic on this thread what comes over loud and clear as the root problem? The rostering is so ineffective that the pilots are distracted to the point of weighing a strike. Blimey! For Pete's sake fix it then - can't the powers that be look down from their ambitious strategy for long enough to do a couple of simple tactical changes? Just realised I haven't mentioned the check-in personnel and dispatchers - well, it's the same story - willing but overloaded, most of them.

It is damn hard to make discontented people happy and get their trust back when you have lost it. Much easier to keep them content in the first place. This is the eleventh hour and a clear gesture (treating the pilots' input as a sensible basis for new rostering patterns would be a good start) is needed.

Rumbo de Pista
19th Jan 2003, 21:24
Interesting post, Few Cloudy...

You hit the nail on the head with much of what you write, but does this mean, for example, that you and your colleagues regard the loss of crew food as a foregone conclusion?

Sorry, but I regard my employer's duty as extending to looking after me during long and difficult days at work, and good food and drink is the bare minimum. If my employer didn't do that, I would understand that they held me in such low regard that I really would not want to work for them any more, especially if the crew food were withdrawn in a manner which is supposed to put more money in the pilots' pockets, but in fact changes nothing about the company's outgoings and simple involves a tax fiddle.

Also, I have not and would not travel on an airline as a passenger if I knew the crew were not being fed. Effective functioning as a crew member relies upon many things, one of the most crucial is proper sustenance. Do you trust your most junior, deepest in debt, FO or cabin crew member to feed him/herself properly in difficult circumstances? Remember, with your FOs, it is often the desire to be just where he/she is that is the cause of the debt... Expert legal advice is with me on this one (European Law and the Duty of Care).

Remember, the Employer giveth and the Taxman taketh away, pretty much at his whim.

19th Jan 2003, 21:25
It would be interesting to know what the current Union membership percentage is. 55% must be well exceeded by now.

From what Ive seen (as said above) there have been an awful lot of anti-balpa types swallowing their pride to send the management a message!

If it does come to strike, I would be surprised if the company could operate 20% of its schedule. Crewing would probably give some non-strikers the day off!

19th Jan 2003, 21:48
Out of synch - non strikers wouldn't be given the day off, they would all be put on standby!! It is quite common to be on s/by until 2300 on your 7th day, you know. Or did they not do that to you in GO? :D

20th Jan 2003, 02:21

19 Jan. Precisely – the heart of the matter

Few Cloudy

19 Jan. Excellent post from a thoughtful and informed member of Easy.

Non-BALPA members of Easy

You may care to cast your minds back to the overwhelming mandate for strike action obtained a couple of years back by the BA PLC as a final counter to the “management” excesses of Ayling Bob, just prior to his heroic decision “to spend more time with his family”.

The determination of members in refusing acquiescence to needless degradations of terms of service dreamed up by an arrogant and incompetent satrap, by clearly demonstrating a will to withdraw labour if necessary, brought mature consultation and considered action in place of mindless management speak and diktat from on high. It was, needless to say, consideration of the effect that even one day’s strike would have on cash flow and profitability that brought this about, rather than the wish to suddenly be Mr Nice Guy.

If younger members of Easy have any difficulty in remembering details of the above skirmish, they will be able to rest assured that their current Chairman, who was Chairman of BA at the time, will, in contrast, be singularly unaffected by such amnesia.

You have a just cause and proposals to make your company more efficient and profitable, so safeguarding your own futures – you only have to force your “management” to listen to a “win-win” offer. Could, therefore, now be the time to join BALPA before 31 Jan, so as to participate in the coming ballot?

Few Cloudy
20th Jan 2003, 09:09
Rumbo -& Another P, just trying to get to the nitty gritty. Being recently pensioned off can only comment on what I know and certainly can't speak for the others. Distance often brings clarity, though.

fred peck
20th Jan 2003, 18:43

You said, "Two years ago eJ only had 200 pilots now they have 700 so about 500 are bonded therefore many of the pilots simply cannot leave."


A large number of these "new" pilots are in fact ex-GO staff and are therefore not bonded.

Only those joining the company without the relevant type rating are bonded.

The vast majority of easyJet pilots are quite free to leave, should they wish. Including those with a bond still outstanding.

It is, after all, still a free country.

20th Jan 2003, 22:14
In 2 years time bonds are going to come to and end and the rate at which pilots leave will be so fast that eJ will not be able to replace them
That will never be a problem - there are planty of people out there waiting for a job and EZY know it

21st Jan 2003, 07:57
Yes there will always be plenty of low time people out there waiting for a job and ej But EJ is already having a hard time getting pilots min requirement lowered from 1500Hr to 500Hr.
After saying that if you fail no second try, they have been calling guys that have failed the sim and asking them if they want a second try. Telling them that as a year or more has passed there ability should have improved. (Two of my friends have been called back by ej. I quote “ you only jest failed should be OK this time”)
Workshops getting smaller and smaller. Last few less than 6 showed (or maybe they only interview 6 at a time now)

Fred Peck
150 or so of the Go guys have bonds also, now transferred to ej.

21st Jan 2003, 09:41
I think the hold of a bond is being over rated here. If the grass was definitely greener (and definitely not astroturf) then paying out a bond would be worth it to work for a happy company with a relationship of mutual respect for all it's employees... umm sort of like what Go was...

And all the talk of strike and keeping bread on the table for Tiny Tim: well a very short strike/s could have the same effect. Here's hoping it doesn't come to that.

stalling attitude
21st Jan 2003, 09:45
there may be people out there who can slot into the right seat but there arent many people who have the experience for a direct entry command and from what ive been told by colleagues etc there are a great many captains looking to leave.

21st Jan 2003, 10:40
I dont think easyjet want to lose any pilots ,or in the future.
It costs them a small fortune to train people.
Therefore its in their interests to keep terms and conditions on a professional footing.

Look at southwest.:cool:

21st Jan 2003, 12:04
It seems to be a fairly simple riposte for all you outsiders to say "well, if you don't like it just leave then." And go where?? It's nice for all the vultures to recommend we all just opt for unemployment rather than stand up to being dicked around 24/7 - I imagine you all think you will walk into our jobs and be grateful for it.

Well screw the lot of yer. If EZY employed us on the basis of no night flights, stable 6 on 3 off rostering, and 800 flying hours a year I think we've got a right to stand up for ourselves. In the long run it might do the other poor sods (ryan, baby etc)around the country some good to demonstrate that being "low cost" doesn't mean there's no price to pay.

21st Jan 2003, 12:42
Reading the posts on this particular forum it seems that many people are worried about several aspects of an impending ballot for industrial action regarding the present negotiations.

We must all ask ourselves where would we like our airline to be in 6-12 months, what environment do we want it to have, what kind of culture (it seems pretty much a blame one at the moment!) and can we see ourselves still enjoying our work (not many do at the moment).

We have an opportunity at this time to try and create a better lifestyle for us all in the long term and if we do not all support one another, Easy/Go, Capts/FO's & BALPA PC, we may as well go belly up now and give the Easy management free reign over the rest of out working time with this company.

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step" ..........
we have made that step and if we do not complete this journey will we look back and lament an opportunity lost? If you think things are bad now, imagine the delight management will take in using a "victory" over the Flight Deck in continuing with the present way we are percieved and treated.
Many people seem to be looking for ways to justify not withdrawing our labour, but I feel we should have no guilt in that respect. We are fighting for reasonable working conditions/lifestyle which is not only our right, but it enhances SAFETY!!.

We are also presenting managment with a system which should improve productivity, efficiency and improve morale, all of which should offset any increase cost the company forsee and improve the longevity of this company.
At the moment the companies training costs must be set to increase anyway just to replace those pilots who are/will be leaving as a result of the present state of affairs. With the the expansion of the company as well, apparently requiring approx. 60 new Capts. alone, then having the goodwill of the pilot force is the only way I can see this being achieved.

On this particular subject (commands!) it is distubing that FO's coming up for their command assessments may have been told that these will be delayed 6-12 months depending on their sickness , sim, discretion, etc. records. They are therefore worried that going on strike will also affect this process negatively. I can only say that it is of great concern that the company may be threatening people in this way and that, again, if we all support BALPA/one another, and we all act together, then where will the new commanders come from if everyone is delayed 6-12 months? In a previous company the cabin crew went on strike....... they were all sacked....only to be reinstated en masse, of course, the company couldn't continue operating! What happened at Aer Lingus?

I hope this isn't too much of a ramble as I'm home, sick with the flu so my single brain cell is under even more duress than normal.

However I need to restate that we must all support the BALPA negotiating team. They are trying to improve your working conditions/lifestyle, which will also enhance the company at the same time, and it would be very sad indeed if thro' our in-action now we remain disheartened and unhappy such that the first step will have been wasted and the journey not completed.

Take care

Max Autobrake
21st Jan 2003, 13:36

It keeps getting worse and worse - apparently the BRS Base Captain and another highly respected Training Captain have resigned to join the up-and-coming Astraeus. I understand that another member of the EZY Training Dept is also about to throw in the towel.

Maybe somebody from EZY (No Sig?) would like to tell us the wisdom of the $1.5M decision to make 13 of their new 700's CAT IIIB capable when their own Training Dept cannot do the necessary training.......

or why the CAA at a recent audit expressed serious concerns about the lack of a defined and accountable management structure.....

or why the CAA has queried the lack of applications for various training/ops positions.....

Ed Winter, GO's Transformation Director was overheard last week openly expressing his opinion that the whole merger/takeover has been a complete disaster from start to finish, blaming the dictatorial and intransigent attitudes of EZY management.

If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it that the whole outfit is about to implode in a BIG way! Apparently the threatened strike action would cost EZY £2M a day - probably about time the Shareholders clawed-back the Managers' £10M bonus - I reckon they'll be needing it!

C'mon No Sig, haven't heard from you for a while....what's going on?

Buffet Boundary
21st Jan 2003, 13:59
Ladies & Gentlemen

Your fight for humane treatment and fair conditions is against one individual.

An individual who has already lost the suppport and confidence of 'The City' and whose arrogance will surely, if he is not disposed of quickly, bring down what could and should be another Southwest.

Good Luck !

Rumbo de Pista
21st Jan 2003, 19:06
First, I can't help remarking that these problems have only been around since BALPA got involved. BALPA did me and my colleagues in a previous airline a huge dis-service a while ago, and I trust them not one jot.

Second, I must say that I agree that there are substantial numbers of substantial questions over the running of this airline. The management team might be capable (just, and with much criticism) of running a ten-aircraft operation, but what they have undertaken, both in pure terms and in terms of the requisite management of change, is clearly now beyond them.

Other operators might be criticised (often are!) for over-heavy management structures, and may have cut back, but at least they have appropriate numbers of appropriately skilled AND TRAINED people in place to run the operation, and don't resort to the sort of bully-boy tactics exlained to me at length over a beer in a pub recently, regarding promotion (highlighted by Pilt-downMan), the managing of those who may appear not to squeeze sufficiently maleably into the company mould, and the very basic issue of training and qualification of senior managers.

I agree, this airline is heading for very big trouble. But at least it will enable all of us outside to see we were right not to be taken in by the 'spin'.

21st Jan 2003, 19:51
I bet the CAA were simply amased at the number of answer phones in the shed!:cool:

21st Jan 2003, 19:54
Reading "Stalling Attitude" and "Hot Shots" comments you would think EJ are finding it hard to find Direct Entry Captains. I have applied three times over the last three months and have not even received an acknowledgement

21st Jan 2003, 21:32
First, I can't help remarking that these problems have only been around since BALPA got involved.

Where did you drag that info up from?

Months before Balpa became recognised at EZ the management made their 2002 offer. This was OVERWHELMINGLY rejected (circa 90%) by the whole pilot workforce. The offer was rejected because it fsiled to address key Terms and Conditions matters that our Pilots' Council believed were essential. There was NO input from Balpa there.

Later, when Balpa became the official recognised Union at EZ, they supervised the negotiating process up to the present day - making sure it has all been legal - very important.

So, if you have a personal axe to grind with Balpa go and grind it elsewhere because these problems were around long before they gat involved.

Max Autobrake

Where do you get your info re CAA audits?

22nd Jan 2003, 10:23
From the Times:-

January 22, 2003

Easyjet's pilots look at strike
By Russell Hotten and Ingrid Mansell

PILOTS at easyJet, Europe’s largest low-cost carrier, are considering strike action over a dispute about flying hours and whether they should be served in-flight food.
The British Air Line Pilots Association (Balpa) is carrying out an “indicative” strike ballot over the next two weeks ahead of another round of talks with easyJet’s management.

Jim McAuslan, Balpa’s general secretary, has sent a letter to its 750 members at easyJet, claiming the airline’s current offer is “unacceptable”.

He writes: “I have to tell you that the gap between us may not be bridged. (We want) you to indicate whether you will be prepared to support some form of industrial action.”

Although a pay deal has been approved, Balpa says it cannot press on with completing the deal because other issues are unresolved. The biggest outstanding dispute concerns rotas.

Mr McAuslan met Ray Webster, easyJet’s chief executive, on Friday and plans to meet again early next month.

An easyJet spokesman said: “We are disappointed that Balpa has raised the issue of industrial action. This seems unnecessary when talks are still going on.”

22nd Jan 2003, 10:43

There are plenty of highly experienced FO's ready to fill those seats. Thats why you are not being called.


22nd Jan 2003, 10:52
Russell Hotten reads PPRuNe?
Nothing like a bit of publicity to focus the minds of the Directors.
I friend of mine, who was an MD in an Engineering firm used to say "Identify your key staff - then don't annoy them unless you have to".
Not a bad way to run a profitable business. "easyDirectors" had better get focused before they are down the road.

Devils Advocate
22nd Jan 2003, 12:49
Engee73 - one imagines that you mean the sort of highly experienced pilots with 2500 hours total time and / or 2.5 year's airline flying under their belt ?

Wherein to perhaps help make the point.....:

“Twas a dark and stormy night when, the newly the promoted, Captain Billy Whizz was called from standby to do an unexpected sub-charter down to Corfu, as he strode confidently out to the aircraft - resplendent in his shiny-new four bar epaulets – he was looking forwards to doing something different to the normal low-cost route structure. His effo was the also looking forward to it as well, having not long completed an approved course at Oxford, with a total of only 290 hours, she had been lucky to gain a job with this low-cost airline and only last week had completed her line-training, apart from which Billy Whizz was also a bit of a dish ! Their relaxed, some might have said, over-confident demeanour was soon to be severely put to the test.”

Look, in general, it’s all a bit of a no-brainer to everyday flog backwards and forwards on scheduled services to airports with 10000’ of concrete and an ILS at each end. However there have been more than a few so called ‘experienced’ FO’s who – hungry for command - when put in the sim and unexpectedly presented with a scenario such as the above, have not been up to the task when things started going wrong.

There's experience, and there's experience - imho.

22nd Jan 2003, 15:38
Who knows when we may also find ourselves in difficult employment conditions - I hope not.

But, to add my ha'porth, if you are shareholders perhaps a mass presence at the AGM or tabling questions, or even calling for a SGM/EGM might concentrate minds without financially ruining everyone.

If not shareholders, or anway, if there have been material changes to terms and conditions since you started working for a company and there has been no attempt by your line management to explain/justify/ask for cooperation this may be leading towards constructive dismissal, even if you resign ?

In my experience, fieldworkers always get dumped on (out of sight and out of mind) even when they get to spend time in the office (not many of us want to do that). Does anyone talk to line management, and get replies ?

Good luck

22nd Jan 2003, 21:43
duffone - Me Too!

Engee73 - They are advertising for direct entry, I'm only applying!

22nd Jan 2003, 21:51

To answer your question:

" one imagines that you mean the sort of highly experienced pilots with 2500 hours total time and / or 2.5 year's airline flying under their belt ?"

No. I do not mean the above. I am talking about (for e.g.) an ex-RBA captain currently in the RHS and others with at least double the sort of experience you are talking about.

I am also not competing personally with applicants from but rather addressing the enquiry as best I can, as a Captain with easy's recruitment team.

There are no 2500 hour captains with easyJet.

Thanks for your humble opinion.

Devils Advocate
22nd Jan 2003, 23:47
Engee73 - W.r.t. “There are no 2500 hour captains with easyJet”

Really, does this also include the influx of folks from Go too ?...... e.g. I know one chap ( whom I believe is now a training captain ) who got his B737 command with only very ‘modest’ hours’ – so as such there is a precedent ( sort of ) - mind you, he IS bloody sharp and his TT when he moved seats was nearly all on the B737; So maybe he’s the exception to the rule ?!

However, w.r.t. your ex RBA colleague, one's inclined to say that this seems quite unusual, i.e. that you have an 'experienced' ( 5000+ hours ) chap in the RHS ( which, as you’ll know, is indeed more than some / many of your LHS folks ), and wherein one must particularly wonder why such an adroit and experienced pilot is not being rapidly moved into the LHS ( as per the normal MO of the eJ meritocracy ), especially so when you’ve a growing demand for good quality LHS’ers ( which I know you dispute is not the case, in as much that you’ve suitable FO’s galore ! – apparently )...... and one wonders if this particular example has more to do with the 'old boys club' At Large, which has now come home to roost ?

That said, why is it that a considerable number of the eJ senior blokes are either looking to, or have recently, ‘jumped ship’ – because, as such, this seems greatly at variance with the hype that it’s ‘so good’ at eJ - maybe they know something that you don’t ?! :eek:

Ps. (hence the edit)

As a chap with several thousand hours on B737's and many years experience of working in airlines, and other industries, purely out of curiosity - as to who / what they're about - I once applied to eJ.
However, almost laughably, the initial response recieved back from their recruitment department was nine ( yes, 9 ) MONTHS later - and it wasn't even a reply, just some soddin' email shot about how great the eJ recruitment team are, and veritably nothing more than 'hype & spin personified !'

Now if the people in the eJ recruitment team ( though wherein I do NOT include Engee73 ) are a reflection of the efficiency of rest of the eJ management(?), then all I can say is gawd help the lot of 'em.

23rd Jan 2003, 07:40

Re your post of 21 Jan. Very very well said and the quick you cut to is:

“We have an opportunity at this time to try and create a better lifestyle for us all in the long term and if we do not all support one another, Easy/Go, Capts/FO's & BALPA PC, we may as well go belly up now and give the Easy management free reign over the rest of out working time with this company.”


“Many people seem to be looking for ways to justify not withdrawing our labour, but I feel we should have no guilt in that respect. We are fighting for reasonable working conditions/lifestyle which is not only our right, but it enhances SAFETY!!.”

Members of Easy

A number of questions someone may wish to answer:

1. Why do you feel that you have to run away from your “management” rather than very justifiably confront them?
2. Where do you think you will all go in the present climate?
3. What possible option has the “management” in the face of definite and legal withdrawal of labour, other than serious negotiation and change?
4. What would be the attitude of the institutional shareholders to a catastrophic plummeting of share price following the first day of labour withdrawal?
5. What would their attitude be specifically towards the Easy CEO?
6. In the event of a stand-off with these shareholders would your Chairman stick with the CEO, defending him as a competent professional manager with a great track record at Easy?

Rumbo de Pista

Re your post of 21 Jan. Just so we can all judge BALPA’s own track record, what exactly are the details of:

“BALPA did me and my colleagues in a previous airline a huge dis-service a while ago, and I trust them not one jot.”

23rd Jan 2003, 09:08

Crew food and perhaps other items:

You alluded to changing conditions and grounds for constructive dismissal; if I understand it correctly, under EU labour law, most of which applies in UK, it is illegal to change T's & C's of a contract without mutal consent, agreed negotiation or correct termination of contract procedures. It is not allowed to whilly nilly downgrade an employees T's & C's of service.
Surely BALPA should be able to confirm this?

Regarding the comment about running away from management rather than confronting them: if you are not prepared to stand up for your dignity and self-respect, and not be the door mat of the unscrupulous, why bother to join a union? It's a very expensive route to do no more than conduct annual pay negotiations, and even that has not proved successful, yet.

One reason for membership is to generate unity to battle the robber barons. Now's your chance, and it likely to be the last one. Remember all the bar room whinging you've heard for years in every airline. Not solving this deep seated critical matter, then whinging will be high on the rhichter scale for ever more.

It's amazing that 3 years ago, a senior member of the board made the statement, twice, that the quality of life issue had to be solved quickly as it was critical to the survival of the airline. Absolutely nothing was done and the chickens are coming home.

Bon Chance.

23rd Jan 2003, 09:25

I was not including GO, I was under the impression that they required 3000 hours. Easyjet requiress 3000 factored hours (see the website) and when recruiting direct entry captains also required recent experience in the LHS. Which is why there are some very experienced FO's (The RBA man in question was with Virgin in the RHS for 2 years) in the company at present.

It is (currently!) policy to promote from within which is why we are not accepting applications from direct entry captains. This is subject to change at a moments notice. ;)

That said, why is it that a considerable number of the eJ senior blokes are either looking to, or have recently, ‘jumped ship’ – because, as such, this seems greatly at variance with the hype that it’s ‘so good’ at eJ - maybe they know something that you don’t ?!

If you check my post I have not defended the current conditions at easy and I regard myself as well informed.

The recruitment team is given very little in the way of resoucres and they do their best. If any applicant is serious about applying for easy and hasn't had a response for that long it might be worth trying again, in fact if you were serious you might have updated after 6 months. the limitations of the website (due to the few IT resoucres available to the recruitment team) are such that the window that comes up when you press send is in effect you initial response.

They are working on it :rolleyes:

easy: It could be great.

23rd Jan 2003, 09:46
I think people need to be careful with the generalisations about total hours and by inference, suability for command. I know at least one airline in the UK where the time to command is around 14 years. Most of the F/O’s approaching command will have in excess of 9000hrs.

I know people who were F/O’s that were well down the seniority list, who then jumped ship to get a command with Easy. They have done well for themselves and are now training captains. (Usually be seen on TV) Bloody well done and good luck to them I say.

The boys and girls at Easy need to sort out their working lifestyle as we did. It’s not about money, but about not working an inefficient and unsafe roster. We all know that you can become fatigued working well within the rules if subjected to too many changes that don’t allow you to plan your rest and recover from the prior duty.

In the company I work for we had “the summer of discontent” that was 1998. I had 13 roster changes given to me prior to a duty, in one day!! The usual number of changes was around 6 or 7. I have never experienced anything like it before or since. I almost resigned. The workforce was not capable of sustaining that kind of pattern. We went to the edge during negotiations and we stuck together and stuck to our guns.

We now enjoy working practises that were largely devised by one BALPA man. We now enjoy roster stability that is almost unbelievably good and the company save money and we work more efficiently. It’s a win win situation. I say stay the course, stay together and in the end there will only be winners’…on both sides of the fence. Good luck.

PS If they do achieve a decent working life for themselves, Ezy will become a serious threat to MOL.

23rd Jan 2003, 13:54
max_cont, I perfectly agree with you. Stick to your demands, nothing less.

Apart from that, I still cannot understand how people can consider a 6 ON 3 OFF pace as normal...No family life, no personal life, just time to get your pack of shirts clean and jump back on the plane. Mind you, I don't live that life so I cannot complain. But I cannot believe this is considered acceptable at EZY...

By the way, for having stricken before, I can tell you the effect of a pilots' strike goes much beyond than 55% BALPA/20% flights leaving. First hours, it works, eventhough there's always a need for 5 people in aircraft (2 pilots, 3 stewards) which is never reachable in case of a general strike. Therefore, you're lucky if you get 20% of flights going.

Then, after a few hours, as people have to go back to rest, as the situation gets tenser with constraints increasing, it gets more and more difficult to get 2 pilots and 3 flight attendants on a plane at the same moment, not counting those thinking "after all, I'll go for it as well". Slowly, the amount of flights leaving decreases and you find yourself with zeroing activity with only 60%-70% striking.

Also, you don't have to be a BALPA member to strike, do you ?

23rd Jan 2003, 15:09
If it comes to strike action, and Lord knows we don't WANT it to, the non-Balpa folk would be well advised to carry on if possible. They have to protect themselves and striking alone without Union backup is not a good plan. I would not try to stop any crewmember going to work.

Better still they could pick up the phone and join Balpa very quickly.

Another very important fact is that any strike action, even a few hours, should be notified WELL in advance and very publicly. We don't want to upset the pax, so give them enough notice to either re-book their flights with another carrier or not book at all in the first place.

This would have the ideal effect of not leaving them 'high and dry' at short notice and 'hitting' (horrible phrase that!) the advance bookings.

The customers are our future and we have no argument with them but the management need to know the score.

23rd Jan 2003, 16:47
Problem is with notifying in advance of a strike, the company can make a plan to counter it, I heard a RUMOUR that RW has been talking to various airlines about the possibility of wet-leasing some A/C's in the event of a strike...

23rd Jan 2003, 17:43

It doesn't matter.

It'll cost a fortune and the shareholders will go nuts!

P1$$ing off the pax when we want to have a go at the management is NOT the way to go.

23rd Jan 2003, 19:06
Fair comment flaps1.

24th Jan 2003, 01:22
bijave – post of 23 Jan

As you’ve been involved in a strike before, I’d guess you will agree that it’s a thing to avoid if at all possible.
Perhaps, paradoxically, the best preventative action may be for all non-members to join BALPA post haste, even at this late hour, and support the strike ballot which I believe will shortly be called.
This will both protect the pilots concerned plus send an exceptionally powerful message to their CEO and, given that they are dealing with a sane management group, will concentrate minds wonderfully, thus probably avoiding the need to strike.
If pilots do not band together in this manner, then the “suits” will inevitably interpret this as a spilt, will not take them seriously and dismiss the whole thing to the press as the pathetic whinings of a weak and cossetted bunch of prima-donna pilots.
Pilots will then have to strike, to crystallize the issue and the messy situation you so accurately describe will come about – not good for anyone!

Few Cloudy
24th Jan 2003, 11:23
Just been reminded that I am a shareholder - with the arrival of the invitation to the AGM and Director's report.

The CE has, amongst otherthings written, "Although easyJet suffered some bad press during the year when a new rostering system was introduced, punctuality is now fully restored and the rostering regime is stable". He also has some very nice things to say about the 3,100 people who work at easyJet and thanks them. Unusual for RW to be seen as a "people" person.

In fairness, this was written in November but it shows either a disconnect between management and what is going on at the front - or a disregard. I can't believe that if RW were really informed, he would let this matter drag. There are some first class suggestions which, if acted upon would aid both the crews and the company. To me it seems that the dialogue isn't happening. Letting off steam on this forum is one thing. Getting the message across is another. With or without BALPA, this man has to be informed.

Stan Woolley
24th Jan 2003, 11:55
Few with all due respect that is a really naive post.

Webster knows EXACTLY what is going on. :mad:

Few Cloudy
24th Jan 2003, 12:49
Flanker, Good - that is the response - disregard and not disconnect.

So what has he got against installing a system which will benefit everybody? Is it just a matter of pride that he can't accept ideas from outside? What has he got to lose? What can he hope to win?

24th Jan 2003, 13:15
Few Cloudy

Why not send RW an email - Ray Webster ([email protected]) - this is not BS address

If your a shareholder he should be duty bound to send a reply.

To the rest of the guys

If 700 pilots each sent him an email he might get the message. Perhaps quoting
easyJet key values (http://www.easyjet.co.uk/en/jobs/pilotrecruitment_ourkeyvalues.html) they wrote it so they should stand by it. ;) ;)

Lord Fulmer
24th Jan 2003, 17:38
Good News!!!!

Here's most of the propaganda that was mailed earlier!


Today our Chief Executive, Ray Webster announced an important change to how easyJet is run. We now have a Chief Operating Officer (COO). Ed Winter, who was our Director of Transformation, will take on his new role from Monday.

Appointment of a COO is a natural step in easyJet’s evolution. Most other airlines of similar and bigger size have one including SouthWest. Basically the COO takes on a lot of the duties and responsibilities that were once the domain of the Chief Executive or CEO!

This move stands to benefit everyone in easyJet in a number of ways. Ray will have more time to concentrate on innovation, which is what keeps us fresh and different and ensures we won’t mutate into a traditional airline. He will also have a lot more time to spend with people. He will concentrate on the overall company strategy and strategic issues such as the competitive environment and shape of the network. He will also have more time available for corporate communications, which is vital to keep our external stakeholders and shareholders happy, including the City and PLC Board.

While Ray and the PLC Board will sign off the company business plan, Ed will be responsible for delivering it. Ed will lead and support our directors in ensuring we hit all our targets. All the directors retain their current roles and responsibilities. They will report to Ed on a day-to-day basis on matters relating to the delivery of the business plan, while reporting to Ray for all other matters. This position means Ed will continue to oversee the Transformation into New easyJet as well as taking responsibility for the daily running of Europe’s No.1 low cost airline. In keeping with the company principle of achieving results through people and teams he will work closely with all the top teams. He said; “ My focus is on achieving results through motivated people.”

Commenting on the appointment Ray said:
“This addresses an obvious pressure point in the company management team. With the additional support Ed will provide to the top team, progress toward achieving total integration and restoring the vibrancy and fun that I think has dissipated recently, will accelerate!”

24th Jan 2003, 18:04
Dear Ed,

It appears the 'buck' has been ceremoniously passed.

Something about 'Lions' Den' or 'Cauldron' springs to mind.

Dear RW,

Please pick up your White Feather as you leave the office!

24th Jan 2003, 18:33
Scapegoat alert!!

Dear Ed,

We wish you well in your new appointment - now sort this mess out and make EJ the top company we all want it to be. Your pilots will give you 110% effort if they are treated fairly and feel that they can trust you (unlike the current players). The ball is in your court (and you have precious little time to show your true worth).

Good Luck - you will need it - in spades!

25th Jan 2003, 05:21
Pilots of Easy

Smart move by your CEO in passing the poison chalice of roster management to a newly designated COO – and I like the timing as well – just ahead of a ballot for strike action on 31 Jan. Neat that he now also has plenty of time to schmooze the city suits and convince them that he is St Ray and that any charges of mismanagement arising from strike action and plummeting share price will not stick on a re-invented Teflon CEO.

More thoughtful members of the Easy pilot force will no doubt realize that Teflon Ray has been monitoring the growing discontent over rostering and the foot-dragging pace of the pay negotiation, if not on an hourly basis, then certainly on a daily one. Members will also realize that in the event of a strike, the Plc Board will ensure that he is extremely poorly placed to pay himself and gang, the ₤10 M integration bonus, of which, naturally, he will be the chief recipient. The possibility that ₤X M will slip through his fingers at the behest of a bunch of pilots must give him constant sleepless nights.

Further thought will perhaps lead to the conclusion that you, the pilot body, has just exercised considerable power over your “management”, who will, remain in no doubt, continue to monitor both the increasingly discordant atmosphere within the airline and the strident postings of this forum. You have forced a change – which may or may not work out – through merely the suggestion of collective will. Imagine what the formal manifestation of this collective will could do!

Admittedly as an onlooker but also as an ardent supporter of the legitimate aspirations, collective welfare and reclaimed standing of ourselves, the worldwide professional pilot body, I ask the Easy pilots, on behalf of all of us, to consider:

1. Please continue this exercise of power by keeping up the pressure, through the medium of BALPA, for substantive and time scale constrained negotiations with the new COO, which will lead to formalized and permanent improvements in your terms of service and quality of life. Remember, your “management” has not suddenly become a band of Mr Nice Guys. When you force them to see reason, this will be of enormous assistance in the reclamation of what used to be the proud profession of airline pilot.
2. All non-BALPA members of Easy, please, please join at this late hour and become part of a juggernaut that cannot but help win proper treatment from those who now view you all with utter contempt – look at what has just transpired as a result of their fear of even the suggestion of you all coming together!

Buster the Bear
25th Jan 2003, 10:17
EASYJET chief executive Ray Webster's pay has soared above that of British Airways counterpart Rod Eddington. Webster picked up £435,000 in pay, bonuses and pension money last year, according to the budget airline's latest report and accounts.

He was also awarded new, immediately exercisable share options worth £500,000 and another bonus in shares for the £265,000 acquisition of Go. Further bonuses worth £ 530,000 relating to the integration of Go are due to be paid within months.

Eddington picked up £504,000 and no bonus last year as BA struggled in the past two years.

Non-executive director Amir Eilon, a corporate financier and long-time associate and adviser to easyJet's founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou, was paid £250,000 for brokering the Go deal and working on the option the no-frills carrier has to acquire BA's German operation.

Eilon, a colourful City figure who made a mint out of the electricity industry privatisation while at BZW, was fined in 1999 by regulators for rule breaches on the flotation of Pace.

25th Jan 2003, 11:52
The joining of Easy and Go started off with an air of euphoria, but after any good party you wake up with a thick head ;) .

26th Jan 2003, 11:54
Thanks for that!
Looks like DOUBLE STANDARDS rule in the orange shed once again{surprise surprise}.
Even city boys will not tolerate too much of this Gold top cream removal.{its so obvious }.
Remember dear old uncle Ayling !
He got nearly 2 million pay off because he was making such a complete hash of it.
Sound familiar!:cool:

But we must save costs !
Ok then start at the top.

26th Jan 2003, 12:05
mjenkinsblack you are the PPRUNE king

Moonraker One
26th Jan 2003, 13:04
No he is a Prince too young to be King!

27th Jan 2003, 07:02
Use of PPRuNe by ezyOps Staff

Due to the new dictatorial management regime within ezyOps and attempts by that collective, to track down and silence certain members of staff, it has become necessary to create a generic user ID.

This will allow easyJet Operations staff to continue posting on PPRuNe, however reduce the possibility of individual persecution.

Any future postings made using this "EZYOPS" user ID may therefore be from any member of staff (operations or crewing) within the easyJet Network Management Centre (aka EZYOPS)

27th Jan 2003, 08:09
I wonder why!
The truth hurts doesnt it!:cool:

You splitter
27th Jan 2003, 08:44

Mate I 've read a lot of your posts over the last few weeks and whilst I agree with a lot you say I have to say your lack of respect for anyone other than pilots does your case no good in the slightest.

I think you'll find that the boys and girls refered to at the top of this thread are protecting themselves from the very people you have an issue with.

They could be a valuble ally if you showed a tad more respect!

Agaricus bisporus
27th Jan 2003, 17:07
hey hey hey Mr Splitter!

Blackdog may well shoot from the mouth a bit too fast sometimes, but I don't read his post the same way you did.

I think he's saying that the persecution of ops staff posting here was caused by other folk who didn't like the truth being posted and wish to censor that truth on this forum, and elsewhere. He's very probably right.

ezyops, be real careful to keep your collective posts sensible and rational, one maverick amongst you will do your cause irreperable harm. Good for you, be fair, be honest, and think real hard before you post (I know, I'm guilty there too, but you have a group to let down in a flash of passion, I have only myself) and do what is necessary to make your point.

We must all resist intimidation of this sort.

27th Jan 2003, 17:58
Firstly I am NOT your MATE laddie.
Secondly there is a severe lack of respect across the board towards its pilots.That starts from the TOP of course.

Finally,if we made the Gross Cockups that come out of the Orange shed on a regular basis YOU wouldnt even have a job.

Therefore I suggest you wind your neck in and get on with your job LaDDIE.

Thats assuming your not in the CANTEEN like half of EASYLAND!:cool:

Contragulations on being able to read.
One of the 40 has a cookery O level.

27th Jan 2003, 18:22
It's a stalling tactic. We all know who the real villain of the piece is - they're banking on us giving the new guy a chance, the feeling that he might be more acceptable, or that we need to give him time to come up with something.

In the extra two weeks given to RW to avoid crisis, the best he can come up with is to wash his hands at Pilate's bowl and dump the problem on someone else while he works out his retirement plan ahead of the next AGM when he will get his golden handshake and b**ger off back to NZ.

No Way Ray!

foundation digger
27th Jan 2003, 23:29
This is such a typical airline thing.

Confrontational management out of their depth.

I just cannot understand what their objectives are.

They think they are running a business.

They are destroying a business, and as a result of the obscene renumeration system think they are doing a good job.

Easy are a business who have achieved sucess largely because poorly managed competition.

They have now achieved the same status as the competition.

I hope things change soon.

28th Jan 2003, 22:22
According to REUTERS this afternoon EasyJet has announced that it has reached a "grass roots" labour agreement with its pilots and that it hoped the agreement would be put to the vote of all EasyJet pilots by the end of the week.

Any details anybody??:confused:

Rumbo de Pista
28th Jan 2003, 22:31
One highlight is that instead of five periods of seven days leave per year they will get just four! Aparently this is to 'bring them into line' with other easy workers (who don't have to flog their guts out to the extent that the aircraft drivers do).

Still, it will mean that they won't have to worry about booking 'winter sun' packages in such abundance, as they have been forced to until now by the system which demands taking just two leave blocks in the seven months of summer against three in the five months of winter.

Even with RW already kicked towards the touchline, I can't believe they'll GO for even less time off and more time working themselves into early graves!

stormin norman
28th Jan 2003, 22:47
New road seems to think a strike is on.Does anyone have a start date?

Rumbo de Pista
28th Jan 2003, 23:29
Sorry, I should have mentioned:

No crew food,
Bigger increases for FOs than Captains (in a company that doesn't let them do much),
reduced pay for new hire Captains and those just promoted,
no rostering/crewing agreement,
no loyalty bonus for FOs,
the possibility of withdrawing the 'right' to work over 60 to those on 'up to 65' contracts,
and bonding for type-rated new joiners!

Still, with nine days less leave, there'll not be so much time to regret!

(Many thanks to the fellow PPRuNEr and chum down the pub for sight of the paperwork - cheers 'John'!).

29th Jan 2003, 00:31

"According to REUTERS this afternoon EasyJet has announced that it has reached a "grass roots" labour agreement with its pilots and that it hoped the agreement would be put to the vote of all EasyJet pilots by the end of the week."

Looks like Teflon Ray is really taking the p*ss. Hope you guys have your PR organized for when you strike. If you don't, St Ray will present himself to the media as the goody and the pilot force will definitely take the baddy slot!

29th Jan 2003, 07:56
Now if I was Stelios and RW has mismanaged my company to the extent that he did and my shares were worth a lot less because of this, I would not hesitate to replace him with Barb, as soon as you could say RoboChef.
RW has wedged himself between a Greek and a lot of angry Pilots.
Do you Read Mr Webster? Your time is just about up mate.

29th Jan 2003, 08:11
Considering all these posts, and the one about some people wishing the easyjet banner to be removed from Prune, it is a pity that the Trades Description Act can not be brought to bear on ej. It would seem they have been wildly mis-advertising their product to prospective crews.

And; can RW be such a dictaorial whip wielding tyrant that no-one on the board, or in Flt Ops management opposed his views; or is he surrounded by yes-men and lackies? It might be that more than one new face is needed.

Do the SAS supply management Swat teams?

Moonraker One
29th Jan 2003, 08:40

What agreement.

Or is it TOADY - RWs spin doctor?

29th Jan 2003, 09:48

I am a journalist wih The Sunday Times, based in Glasgow and cover transport issues for the Scottish edition.
I would like to write a piece for the coming weekend (2nd Feb) about the working conditions faced by some pilots. For some time, I have heard many are on lower wages than one might expect yet still work long hours - the message posted today re: easyJet's pilots would seem to support this.
Hardly surprising in this day and age, yet pilots have greater responsibility than most. I wonder if any would be willing to speak with me, particularly those with airlines such as Ryanair, EasyJet, BA, Virgin and Go! (simply because these are the main carriers out of Scotland)?
Anonymity, if desired, is guaranteed although for my own records I would like to know who I'm speaking to.
I hope a few of you will be able to help. I can be contacted on [email protected] or direct dial 44 (0)141 420 5339.

Many Thanks.

29th Jan 2003, 10:16
Since when have Virgin been flying out of Scotland, Mark?! :D

Few Cloudy
29th Jan 2003, 10:28
As regards the new COO, he couldn't have been given a harder job at a time when trust is at its lowest level. If easy pulls through this it will be the stronger for it but it is asking a lot from pilots who have been treated badly. As in all conflicts it takes a big man (in this case, lots of big men) to see through the emotions and be prepared to negotiate.


Just picking up on this one point, it seems as though you don't agree with giving the FOs a bigger % rise. Maybe I misunderstood.

This is a subject I have long felt strongly about - in EZY, EZS and other airlines. Historically all pilots have received the same (not large admittedly) pay rises - except once in GVA in my experience when the FOs received less (1.5% to 3.5% I think it was). In time this leads to a bigger and bigger gap between the FOs and Capts. Every now and then the FOs should be given a hike up.

I know that FOs are thought in some places to be two a penny but a little respect (they have been selected according the same strict procedure) is always in order. These are our closest working colleagues and the future of the airline.

29th Jan 2003, 12:58
Just contacted a member of the easyjet Balpa PC, and he has confirmed that no deal has been struck yet.

I wonder if the announcement was a ploy to increase the share value so certain members of management could sell a few at a better price.

Although that would be insider trading wouldn't it?

29th Jan 2003, 13:58
It appears Toby Nichol has made a public announcement before even a meeting has taken place.

As I understand it no proposal has even been put forward to the council/Balpa. It's difficult to vote on something without knowing what it is!

Nichol also refers to '2 councils'. I thought there was only 1 council - so what is he talking about?

If this was some vain attempt to push the share price up - it only lasted about 3 minutes!

29th Jan 2003, 17:46
FlapsOne / Kennedy - don't really see much point in them trying to get the share price up. The privileged (and protected) few at the top apparently get their price guaranteed!

Any ideas on how that works?

Few Cloudy
29th Jan 2003, 17:50
Yes Flaps 1 - you might be tempted to quote "Now is the Ed. Winter of our discontent..." :rolleyes:

Mind you, the latest descent in share value is parallel to the FTSI at the moment .

29th Jan 2003, 18:26
The ballot is now in process and will be completed on 31 Jan. Crewroom talk (exit ballot) is totally in support of the council and its aims.

29th Jan 2003, 18:35

Can't see how their price can be guaranteed. Who's going to act as guarantor for that amount of money?

Apparently the management have come up with a better deal which Balpa are recommending to the membership.

No details as yet but includes steps forward in several of the discussion points that have stalled the last few meetings. It also includes some sort of statement on rostering procedures etc.

Should make interesting reading when the full info is sent to us - unless Toby Nichol tells Reuters first!

30th Jan 2003, 12:12
After yestedays tea and biscuits.
Looks like a date is imminent!:cool:

Lapsus linguae
30th Jan 2003, 16:26
The details don't seem to have greatly changed. It will require a simple yes or no!

31st Jan 2003, 07:03
From today's Gaurdian (31 Jan)

EasyJet pilots cancel strike

EasyJet pilots have cancelled industrial action after reaching agreement with the low-cost airline on its merger with Go.

The British Airline Pilots' Association said it had recommended a new offer on pay and conditions, having resolved a long-running dispute over rostering.

southern softy
31st Jan 2003, 12:57
the deal includes several elements of eroding easyjet terms and conditions, including a massive reduction in sector pay, new captains,(many of whom have been with the company for years) are to takea 10% reduction in pay, less leave etc. :rolleyes:

Well done BALPA, Jim and co i hope you all got what you individually wanted, shares, over 60s t&cs etc. And yes, I will be cancelling my subscription.

31st Jan 2003, 15:30
As my username suggests, I may be able to clear up a couple of items here (make a nice change, usually it's you guys clearing up MY confusions!):

The current weakness in the easyJet share price is down to a combination of 1) concerns of the impact of George Dubya/Our Tone's double act over Iraq on SLF's willingness to fly; 2) concerns over easyJet management's ability to integrate the Go acquisition successfully (including resolving the pilot dispute) 3) concerns as to their ability to get Deutsche BA into a suitable shape to exercise their option to purchase later this year; 4) concerns as to the recent slippage in passenger yields that we've been seeing (yes, you expect prices to be low when you're expanding operations as fast as these guys, but the market's been a bit taken by surprise as to the recent falling off of rates; 5) the high oil price - easyJet are unusual in their policy of not hedging against fuel costs; 6) the apparent delay in getting out an EGM statement which will include a trading update - we're starting to get concerned that it my be weak and 7) market weakness - airlines are what we call "high beta", in other words, they have a high degree of correlation with market movements, sometimes moving far further than the market (eg market goes down 1%, EZJ shares down 2%).

So all the suggestions we've had so far are right!

The only one I think looks wrong is the idea of management getting a guarantee on their share price - are you maybe thinking about the exercise price on their share options? Which IS fixed, but that fixes a price for them to buy those shares at, not sell.

...hmmm .... maybe I haven't helped at all ....:confused:

31st Jan 2003, 16:23
'southern softy' You wrote:

"the deal includes several elements of eroding easyjet terms and conditions, including a massive reduction in sector pay"

Can we conclude from this that

A. Balpa are suggesting a ballot on a deal favouring easyJet and shafting the pilots?

B. That the new General Secretary is not backing up the pilots?

Please give us some details of the deal that you might vote on. Your post has left us in the dark.

31st Jan 2003, 23:59
'southern softy' You also wrote:

,,,,,less leave etc

Now, that's not true at all is it? If you think it is true, you haven't read the terms properly have you?

new captains,(many of whom have been with the company for years) are to takea 10% reduction in pay
Not quite.

Promoted F/Os get a payrise to 10% below the normal Capt's pay for 6 months.

I don't agree with it by the way but it's not quite what you reported is it?

Why post something like that if not just to enhance your statement.

Don't let any facts get in the way of a good story eh?

1st Feb 2003, 01:59
Maybe someone could post full details of the Easy deal offered by management?

If the membership is not in agreement with this deal, then as far as I can ever remember the procedure, it votes against acceptance and sends in its servants, the BALPA representatives, to further negotiate.

Don’t be cowed by an opening shot, insist on what you know to be just and in the interests of both the pilot force and the company.

1st Feb 2003, 08:33
Thats why you should be a member of BALPA.
1. you can vote.
2.you are informed.
Youll have to wait for the presentations like all other NON MEMBERS.:cool:


1st Feb 2003, 09:58
Yes, the council have recommended an offer to the workforce they represent. However it is now up to the workforce to decide wether to accept or reject the offer. We will be balloted on this offer. Crewroom feeling is one of dissapointment.

1st Feb 2003, 13:17

I have to agree. I have heard lots of comments on crew food etc by non-BALPA members. People not in BALPA don't have a say. If you dont like whats been agreed- tough- organise your own contract.

What have the IPA done to help their supporters? Sweet FA i suspect.

Back to the BALPA forum to vote for my rights.

2nd Feb 2003, 01:33

Re: your pithy comments and final imprecation to me of 1 Feb.

If you had cared to properly read my post of 17 Jan you would have noted that I am not currently working in Europe – “I know that it’s real easy (no pun intended) looking in and commentating from a warmer and sandier location but in a former life with a UK employing airline, I was involved, with many others, in a potential strike position similar to your own.” – By deduction, therefore, I could not be a member of the Easy workforce and with similar reasoning, renewal of BALPA membership at this time would have limited appeal and zero advantage to me.

Similar careful reading of my subsequent posts on this thread would have revealed to you my continued exhortation of non-BALPA members of Easy to join post haste and add their support to a worthy cause and voting weight when balloted – “All non-BALPA members of Easy, please, please join at this late hour and become part of a juggernaut that cannot but help win proper treatment from those who now view you all with utter contempt – look at what has just transpired as a result of their fear of even the suggestion of you all coming together!” – 25 Jan.

You say – “you are informed.” – Obviously BALPA membership automatically confers the right of information – I had not thought it necessary to spell this one out.

Your final comment - “Youll (sic) have to wait for the presentations like all other NON MEMBERS.” – places you precisely in the category of willing tool of management’s classic desire to divide and rule you all. Now is not the time to indulge in silly squabbles and childish differentiations. It is a time for unity and the spread of accurate information to both BALPA and non-BALPA employees. When non-members see the paucity of what is on offer and are unhappy about it, the solution will then be obvious to them – join BALPA and vote against the offer. If they are kept in the dark, they’ll never know of the pressing need to join.

My final comment – May I reiterate to the non-BALPA employees of Easy. Please, even at this late hour, consider joining the Association. You will have a say in the current and vital negotiations concerning your own futures and, if you don’t like what the BALPA negotiators bring back to you, reject it through the ballot and send them back to re-negotiate. Do this as many times as required – you’ve paid for this service through your subscriptions. Remember, they are at your behest and you do not do what they tell you – they do what you tell them.
Now is not the time for rugged individualism or some obscure anti-union ideology. Now is the time for unity and collective action in whatever form is appropriate. Do similarly remember that if you do not add your weight at this pivotal time, the only people you will have to blame for a subsequent disaster and an unhappy future will be yourselves.

2nd Feb 2003, 08:27
If you dont work for easyjet then stick to making sandcastles in the desert.
The deal hopefully will not be posted here for you to ponder.

2nd Feb 2003, 10:35

If yours is a representative attitude of BALPA membership towards offered support and solidarity, god help the pilots of easyjet.

2nd Feb 2003, 11:48
Mjenkinsblackdog, if you have to work for EJ to participate in this discussion, might I suggest that EJ pilots use the EJ private forum. http://www.btinternet.com/~tonyrichardson/confused.gif

southern softy
2nd Feb 2003, 12:02
for the comments re my previous post:-

at the time of writing it was proposed we have less leave. in black and white, however this has subsequently changed to the original deal. so flaps 1. It was true at the time of writing.

regarding the new captains deal, you can manipulate the words in whichever way you want, but the cold hard facts are that for the first six months, 10% pay cut on normal captains salary is exactly what it is, this equates to 5% over a 12 month period or 2.5% over 2 years, ie a pay freeze on inflation. Use whatever words you want, the facts however do not change.

Senior First Officers have been well and truly shafted, the pay rise once you take out the £1100.00 that we have to pay for our own food, and £1900.00 reduction in sector pay means the pay rise is a couple of hundred quid. Then when we finally get a command once all the go guys have been sorted out, we get further shafted.

Thanks easyjet and thanks to the Balpa team.The future is a yellow harp.

Agaricus bisporus
2nd Feb 2003, 14:48
In the land of the yellow harp about half your money is sector pay, and it comes at a rate of 50% for the first 6 mths after final line check...

And you think we've been shafted???

2nd Feb 2003, 20:26

....and without the intervention of balpa you would have

to pay for car parking
lose fixed roster patterns and RDOs
let rostering managers, without fear of penalty, change your roster at will
remove crew food
reduce sector pay anyway
no sector pay for sim duties
an RPI pay increase
No disruption pay

Now that's what was on offer when balpa joined the negotiations late last year.

Would you have accepted that?

Say again s l o w l y
3rd Feb 2003, 08:45

Of course no-one would have accepted the original deal, more insulting than slapping my grandmother. BUT despite Balpa's help, there is still an erosion in pilots terms.
So it's better than it could of been, doesn't make it any good though.......:(

3rd Feb 2003, 12:28
Say again s l o w l y

I agree it's not good but it's better than we would have had.

Without Balpa intervention pilots would have left in droves - me included.

The fact remains that, had Balpa membership been higher, say 75% or more, this deal would probably have been rejected because industrial action would have had a better chance of success.

I must have read 10 or more different analyses of how the offer affects different people but, so far, for every one that claims they are worse off financially another analysis claims the opposite. There are some erosions but also some gains. Having read the figures eveyone is financially better off when ALL the details are considered.

But this whole business was never really about money. It was about overall Ts and Cs and I HOPE that the potential financial penalty to the pockets of Ops/Crewing managers if they screw up on rostering protocols will focus their minds to achieving stable rosters and the lifestyle we all want.

southern softy
3rd Feb 2003, 20:44
flaps, i do not want to play "I got the last word " and would prefer to have played this part of the game on our private forum, however, you are sadly wrong .

Before BALPA, we did have 6on 3 off,
we did have crew food( your suggestion it remains is only partially correct as we are paying for it ourselves now),
we had much better sector pay,
we have had disruption pay ( considerably more than this offer , 1999 £6000/£4000)
we have had better than RPI increase
and at least we got a night stop allowance for sim and SEPs which we no longer get.
And we also had a crew contribution policy, no penalties I admit.
And newly promoted captains had parity in pay to other captains not a 10% cut ( or whatever you wnt to call it)

Apart from cocking all that up what else have the Romans done for us.................:confused:

3rd Feb 2003, 22:16
I don't want to play last words either but:

Most of that was being taken away, that's the point!
...........edited because I totally agree this would be better on the company forum.

As for the Romans.....................splitters!

4th Feb 2003, 08:15
The usual smoke and mirrors from BALPA. 'We know we have achieved nothing guys, but look at what might have happened'. Problem is, as has been admitted on these pages, any form of action will not happen. These forums may be dominated by the moaners and militants but the bottom line is that the majority never read them and are basically happy with their lot. Industrial action is a non starter in Easy or any of the other low cost or charter airlines. AND THEY KNOW IT. BALPA will never achieve anything that the companies will not happily give. At least their members have one advantage, they can give themselves a 1% pay rise.

4th Feb 2003, 09:05
You speak a lot of sense and I agree that what you say is probably what is happening.

However, let us be under no illusion that the dye is cast. We still have to have a ballot and I am not underestimating the strength of feeling of easyJet pilots on these issues.The anger that existed about no rostering agreement and therefore no lifestyle is still evident even though we now have a rostering protocol. However we once had something called the CCP!!! What good is any agreement unless it is binding?The council have worked extremely hard on these negotiations and have presented us with what they consider an acceptable agreement, but it is the electorate who will decide if it is acceptable. That is the law and that is the process that will be followed.

Personally, I think we have turned a corner, but I am a long way from thinking the future is bright..... and I for one am pulling some of those irons out of the fire.

4th Feb 2003, 13:33
The usual smoke and mirrors from BALPA. 'We know we have achieved nothing guys, but look at what might have happened'.

The thing is, Balpa haven't said that. I Have.

What I stated was from the company proposal BEFORE Balpa ever got involved - so that was their starting position.

How about this as a proposal:

All non-members of Balpa can have what the company offered prior to Balpa involvement, and Balpa members can vote on whether they wish to accept what is currently on offer.

Clear right!
4th Feb 2003, 16:02
Southern Softy wrote;

Before BALPA, we did have 6on 3 off,

Under the original deal it was going, now it's staying. Some can opt out now and go to ad hoc crewing. True BALPA didn't gain it for us, but they've kept it for us.

we did have crew food( your suggestion it remains is only partially correct as we are paying for it ourselves now),

Under the old deal it was going, BALPA members voted conclusively for crew food to remain. It has done.

All your seeing now is the cost (£1100) that the employer bears. Prior to this when we had crew food the cost was still there to the company. This is a little bit of propaganda for the company to make you want to give up crew food. "Ooh, I could have an extra £1100 BEFORE tax in my pocket."

Under the old deal you would have got the £1100, big deal, after tax at 40% and NI of around 10% not much left to feed yourself with.

You were always paying for the crew food. Just this year they [the co] didn't want the hassle of providing it. As a sweetner to get you to give it up they've offered you money. Since crew food arrived they never offered you the money but it will always have been factored into the costs of an employee, just like uniform, 2 free tickets etc etc is in other airlines.

we had much better sector pay,

For Captains it hasn't changed much but for SFO it has gone down by £4. However with the increase in basic it offsets the drop in sector pay. The basic is pensionable so you're getting more in your pension too.

and at least we got a night stop allowance for sim and SEPs which we no longer get.

No you no longer get a nightstop allowance, instead you get two sector payment, a 20% increase on your nightstop allowance.

And we also had a crew contribution policy, no penalties I admit.

Now if they cock it up throughout the year a Captain gets £2,000 and an FO gets £1200. Not as good as previous.

And newly promoted captains had parity in pay to other captains not a 10% cut ( or whatever you wnt to call it)

Totally agree with you, 100% of the responsibility for 90% of the money, I don't think so. :mad:

Overall the package is the best on offer. I'm a BALPA member and I'm not going to go on strike whilst 49.7% of the workforce (non BALPA members) cross the picket line.

Pilots in easyJet who aren't BALPA members and wish to complain about the deal can take a hike. :mad:

Look what BA's PC did with membership in the 90% region. RDW knows he has us over a barrel and if you don't like it, tough.

If you want better terms and conditions join BALPA to present a united front or quit bleating cos it ain't going to get any better :mad:

4th Feb 2003, 16:41
Well said clear right i Shall also be voting yes.

Rumbo de Pista
4th Feb 2003, 19:27
Well done easy!!

You made an old man chuckle today when I read the details of the new 'offer' - the first time have seen a pay deal which includes salaries which will be reduced before it comes into effect!! I laughed so much I bought a round!

There seems to be very little more on offer to you than was there before, and as to the management 'demonstrating' the cost of providing crew meals, why don't they demonstrate the cost of simulator checks, line checks, salary, allowances, or any of the other things which an airline pays out to/for its employees?

And the 90% for new left-seaters. Very, very, poor reasoning behind this. Total disrespect for the people you are putting in your left seats. Especially disappointing for all the blokes and girls who will be 'home grown' Captains. Devastating for those whose careers have been held up by the legendary 'fairness' of the command selection process. These worms will turn.

Six on three off seems to be accepted as the status quo. It seems, from the number of moans about fatigue here, that this scheme (really, seven on two off), plus the early flying and night flying and swaps between the two, add up to knackered pilots who just manage to keep body and soul together.

I used to worry if was in the right job. Now, the grass is looking as though the cat has been out, when I look over the fence into the orange grove.

southern softy
4th Feb 2003, 23:10
Flaps, clear,

if you are not intelligent enough to see it, I am wasting my time.

5th Feb 2003, 04:47

It's amazing that when someone has a weak argument, not supported by facts, they resort to personal insults to fight their case. I see you are no different!

Try this,

1. Get hold of a copy of the company offer as it stood in October. Ask the PC or RW if you like.

2. Read it.

3. Then quote any of the terms in that document that are in any way better than what's on offer now.

See how much 'amunition' you have left for further debate if you can lower yourself to communicate with less intelligent beings!

5th Feb 2003, 07:36
The assumption here is that some how BALPA forced the company into improving thier offer. How? They admit that they have no power. The membership numbers are irrelevant, the company knows that the pilots will not vote for a strike. Any representative body would have achieved this result, a more 'representative' one perhaps more.

5th Feb 2003, 09:12

If you do not like what is on offer and you deem it unacceptable, you will have the chance to record that fact by ballot on the 7th. The package is only an offer at the moment. It is up to us to decide if it is acceptable.It is no good bleating like a load of schoolgirls about things you cannot control. The offer will not be all things to all men, that is democracy.Vote on Friday , have your say then .The fat lady has not sung yet!!

Moonraker One
5th Feb 2003, 09:17
Don't be so sure on the vote outcome.

What pilots say in the crewroom is not the same as a secret ballot. The straw poll i have seen gives a NO vote. Pilots can be brave when putting a tiny cross on a piece of paper. They will make their own decision.

Few Cloudy
5th Feb 2003, 11:18
Just had an excellent flight LGW - ZRH as pax and was impressed by the very competent and professional crew. I was just able to thank the pilots too before our bus left and to offer luck in the negotiations.

Made me think - does management realise what a good team there is on the line?

Later, browsing through the latest easyJet inflight magazine I came across this, in an article called Business Doctor: "Introduce 'compressed work weeks' where people work longer hours and finish on thursday..." and "...throw out the company rules, have decisions made by the workers, not management, let staff set their own working hours..." A little own medicine there with slight amendments, for the current discussions.

5th Feb 2003, 18:33
Moonraker, a vote on this offer is one thing, a vote for industrial action another. No one in thier right mind is ever going to vote for industrial action, most BALPA members are not militant and are there for the insurance (misguidedly). The union know that they cannot achieve more and are having to put a brave face on it. The proposals from the company will almost cerainly have been more draconian than they intended simply to give the union a get out by claiming to have forestalled them, standard industrial practice.

Rumbo de Pista
5th Feb 2003, 19:10

You would be right if there was a significant difference between the two offers. there isn't. BALPA, as usual, claim credit for smoke and mirrors whilst achieving precisely nothing.

If this is how 'a leading airline' acts we should all quit and drive buses. At least we would be home at nights.

5th Feb 2003, 21:09
When was the last time a pilot went on strike in this country ?

Clear right!
5th Feb 2003, 21:48
Carruthers, so why do BA BALPA achieve good results? Probably something to do with their large membership and if they're antagonised too much they strike.

What grates at the moment is that BALPA, not the PC (as they work hard enough), are doing sod all to garner support.

Where are the posters? Where are the application forms in the crew rooms? Why isn't someone calling non members to persuade the benefits of BALPA.

1% of ones salary is a lot to pay for inactivity of BALPA.

6th Feb 2003, 08:40
Before you vote yes to the proposal, think further, please.

If you do not like what BALPA has achieved, just say NO and tell them to try again harder!

Moonraker One
6th Feb 2003, 09:11
Sometimes it takes a person on the outside to see things clearly.

There is no mist in front of your eyes. The deal on offer is poor it does not address the issues of fatigue and overwork that directly have a bad effect on safety.

Our lifestyle will not be improved unless we stick together and vote NO.

This so called agreement is half baked and needs more work by BALPA and easyJet.

6th Feb 2003, 09:45
As another outsider, I would also urge you to vote NO. The reason being that a good result for you will have a positive impact for all UK pilots. You have the advantage over RW, please don't waste this chance to improve things.

Moonraker One
6th Feb 2003, 19:36
First of all you have got the measure of easyJet management and as Germans you do not settle for second best with terms and conditions. Low cost does not equal poor terms and conditions for pilots. There is plenty of profit for management bonuses so there should be lots of cash for our terms and conditions.

The pilots in UK easyJet wanted a reasonable rostering agreement the debate at the moment is whether the company have given enough. My judgement is they have not and we are heading for more chaos if the head count and work rate of crew is not improved to produce a workable roster.

I think that easyJet are so keen to get the dba deal that they will not be able to walk away. Ryanair have just taken Buzz and easyJet will have a foothold in Germany. Otherwise they would have walked out on the deal. They will blink first and you will a good settlement. BEST OF LUCK.

6th Feb 2003, 20:22

My self-depracting friend, you are not a Kraut(this is an Americanism for you), no, you are of course a HUN

6th Feb 2003, 21:21
Whatever you are, your written English is a darn site better than my German!


landeklappen eins!:D :D

6th Feb 2003, 23:37
Moonraker One and unwiseowl

As yet another outsider, I absolutely agree. What can Easy BALPA members possibly gain from voting Yes? (apart from a laughably pathetic package).
However, if they vote No, BALPA has to go in again, following their fresh instructions and if nothing else this would stop Teflon Ray from crowing and New Road from pushing out premature press statements to the effect that the “pilots have called off the strike”.
Meanwhile a No vote and further negotiation will give time for the Non-BALPA Easy Members to reconsider their position and join pdq.
Remember, Non-Members, if you don’t all get your act together, you’ll be completely shafted and you won’t even be able to whine anymore.
BALPA Members, vote No – it’ll give more time for the joiners and you’ve certainly nothing to lose. Good luck.

7th Feb 2003, 09:20
Guys, as an outsider, (and BALPA member) I can't really understand the resistance to BALPA membership.

Is it resistance, or just apathy?

In this job, especially with your employer, I find it very hard to believe you can't afford 1% of your pensionable pay!

Without a union, and the power of collective bargaining, your terms and conditions will only go one way. Driven by those management emoluments and bonuses alluded to earlier.

The only reason your pay and conditions currently look passable is due to market forces. In other words, due to massive growth, Easy needed moderately experienced pilots in fairly large numbers, so had to pay better than other employers to attract them from other airlines.

Market forces appear already to be 'on the change'. This is what is reflected in your employer's apparently derisory offer.

Effective representation means getting a 'fair' deal without striking! That is failure.

But the bigger the stick, the less likely it has to be used.

For those arguing against the union, on anything other than 'personal' reasons:

Get used to bending over, after a while, you'll probably find it "wont hurt a bit!"

- Just an outsider's view. No particular axe to grind.

Good luck

Buffet Boundary
7th Feb 2003, 11:19
I understand that senior managers have been running around bases like headless chickens for the past few days, trying to drum up support and enthusiasm for their derisory offer - talk about crisis management.

Anyone in Easyjet voting yes for this deal wants their head examining !!!

As do BALPA for recommending it to their members.

I am not one to advocate strike action but for heavens sake BALPA surely you can do better that this.

To my knowledge the deal includes a 6 on 3 off work pattern but they can roster certain 'flexi days' within this agreement. Namely you will not finish until 02:00 on your first day off and can be rostered from 02:00 on your first day back. So you will effectively have only 1 yes 1 ! clear day off.

'Days Off' rosters are published for a 12 months period to allow crews to plan socially but surely you only know that you have 1 absolute day off for certain i.e. your second day.

Am I right in saying that BALPA have successfully negotiated the retention of crew food, however, the crews have to pay 1100 pounds for the priviledge. Nice one BALPA ! Bet the pilots like that little gem.

BALPA you :

1) Have the negotiating ability of a Manatee

2) Overcharge your members ( no one should have to pay more than 25 pounds per month for union representation)

3) Have the most lacklustre and disorganised administrative dept I have ever spoken to.

Another reason BALPA membership is so low in Easyjet must be the huge numbers of foreign pilots within the organisation.

But that's another issue altogether

Clear right!
7th Feb 2003, 11:45
Reject is the only option I think.

Either we get a better deal out of it or the company impose the deal. Both situations will be a win-win for the pilots. :}

If the company impose it then the 49.7% of members can't blame BALPA members for accepting a deal and the morale will be so low that it might improve membership and it gives BALPA (not the PC) the chance to get off their ars*s at New Road and start providing the materials to effectively recruit.

Therebye we come back to the table with more strength.

If none of the above happens and this pathetic deal goes through then I and several of my colleagues will resign from the union. We can't be the only ones either.....

7th Feb 2003, 14:26
Buffet Boundary

Another reason BALPA membership is so low in Easyjet must be the huge numbers of foreign pilots within the organisation.

There is nothing to stop foreign pilots joining Balpa.

Many of our overseas colleagues are indeed members.

7th Feb 2003, 16:00
So when did BALPA ever improve things? Even at BA with 97% membership things have been steadily deteriating. The pension scheme for one. The latest pay deal isn't what it's cracked up to be. There will never be industrial action in Easy or the other low cost / charter airlines because most guys know the bottom line, are not militant and know that in the long in the long term will never win. Also of course the new joiners to the EU can work in this country straight away, very nice thank you Mr Blair.

Ricky Butcher
7th Feb 2003, 18:07
So what if things steadily deteriorated at BA under BALPA? The whole industry is deteriorating everywhere except the boardroom and things would have gone downhill a lot quicker without them. Thanks to BALPA instead of the corporate pay rise this year I'm getting almost 10 times that.

If the easy offer is no good then say no and send it packing. BALPA will take note. Memories are fresh at New Road of what happened to Chris Darke when he disappointed a large constituency of members!

8th Feb 2003, 09:25
Workforce have now been balloted(BALPA portion anyway). The vote is to be counted on the 21st.

Anybody from easyJet, who is not happy with their terms and conditions now has it within their power to record that fact.

9th Feb 2003, 06:06

Excellent post of 7 Feb. Hit the nail on the head.

To quote you, “But the bigger the stick, the less likely it has to be used.”

Precisely – the more members, the bigger the stick – the bigger the stick the more they take notice – the more they take notice, the easier it is to get your message over and get some real terms and conditions as opposed to the opening shot “try-on” your “management” is currently laughing about behind your backs.

As discerning readers will gather, I’m outside the fray and in the words of one of your less discerning colleagues, “stick(ing) to making sandcastles in the desert”. I am however, nearing the end of an eventful professional flying career and whilst my kids affectionately indulge me as an old dinosaur they nevertheless acknowledge that I seem now to be able to view events with a measured perspective and, on a good day with a following wind, not too shoddy a recall of detail.

I exercise the same perspective and recall now and would like to reassure younger Easy pilots that history is merely repeating itself and that there have been similar tussles between pilot bodies and the plethora of ex-dog meat salesmen, baked bean peddlers and snake oil specialists placed above us as management “experts” and intent on “new-brooming” their way to enhanced profits, higher personal bonuses and onward and upward boosts to future positions in the truly stellar reaches of “gravy”.

There have historically been two pilot body responses that I have ever been able to observe. Either they remain supine and apathetic, accepting the diktat from the latest arrivist ignoramus, hence becoming collectively responsible for the inevitable slide in their own terms and conditions plus the accelerating contempt in which they are held by the ever more powerful “management”, or they have done something about it. In the latter case, inevitably, the precondition for action has been strong BALPA membership which has point blank refused to accept unilateral contract changes or onerous terms and conditions and has made this stance crystal clear to both “management” and BALPA. They have similarly made crystal clear that, as a last resort, they have been prepared to sanction 24 hour work stoppages on dates of their own choosing and that they would continue this stance until an equitable settlement was reached between both parties. I have noticed over the years that this collectivism and frame of mind has produced real power for the pilot bodies concerned, as I have further noticed that “managements” seem to respond with impressive alacrity and freshly concentrated, highly accommodating minds only to such naked displays of power and intent, following their consideration of the immediate and dramatic effect that such brief power exercises will have on Cash Flow, Profitability and Share Price.

All of which is to say, to non-BALPA members, please remember that it is only this power that will sway your tormentors and secure your legitimate aspirations to fair treatment and the quiet enjoyment of your profession, following years of qualifying work. Please join the Association now!

I have mentioned before that my motivation for writing on this thread is that I am an ardent supporter of the legitimate aspirations, collective welfare and reclaimed standing of ourselves, the worldwide professional pilot body. As things stand, however, I’ll be very pleased to shortly be leaving it, as, along with so many others, I’ve seen a gradual erosion in our standing, remuneration and employment conditions, all of which we are entirely responsible for, solely as a result of our unwillingness or inability to combine and fight these depradations. Young men and women of Easy, reverse this process now. Stand together and defeat your foe. Please believe me that they will be absolutely terrified if you combine – I’ve seen it before with my own eyes!

Finally, a note to BALPA. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job. The membership is not getting value for money!

9th Feb 2003, 06:31
Anotherpost75 I couldn't agree with you more. However, it always amazes me how well airlines play the 'divide and rule' card. They seem to understand well that pilos are a relatively easy workforce to control.

Give some guys good deals and let others rot.

9th Feb 2003, 11:51
What's wrong with us. Pilots are their own worst enemy. ATC fight their corner, as do baggage handlers, airport fire staff even most cabin staff when pushed too far.

We, the last bit of glue to hold it all together. are happy to roll over and ask for our tummies to be tickled as we gobble the last crumb from the table.

When these other links in the chain refuse to be shafted I suspect there is some unspoken admiration for their fortitude. And remember, they usually achieve much of what they were after.

Once a managment has tested the crew's resolve and found it weak, all respect, if there ever was any, will evaporate in the breeze. From then on you will be accused of crying wolf and your bluff will be called everytime.

Ask the guys at SWA how it was for them in the first 5 years; terrible, but they never gave up and look what they achieved.

9th Feb 2003, 12:30
Anotherpost75 - a well written and well considered snapshot of the present state of affairs. Certainly better than some of the half-assed reasoning I've seen on here, calling everyone "laddie" and running down the skills of every group in the company but your own, which I'm sure we all agree is not the way forward.

One comment, however, about your <<Finally, a note to BALPA. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job>>:

As has been mentioned before in these pages, BALPA is not a big machine that can be wheeled out of a cupboard and set up at the opposite end of the room to the eJ managers...BALPA is "the members".

If the members don't have the stomach for a fight, and I'm talking proper "put your money where your mouth is" action, the cause is all but lost. Divide and rule and other classic management tactics will only be effective if the troops roll over and let "them" have their way.

10th Feb 2003, 01:05

Thank you for your kind comments and yes, you are entirely correct. Perhaps what I really mean is:

Finally, a note to Easy Pilots. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job of standing together against a ruthless adversary. The membership is not getting value from its overwhelming capacity to prevail!

10th Feb 2003, 06:56
I have voted NO. I wonder if I will be in the minority!!

10th Feb 2003, 07:15
Amazing! Substitute BA for Easyjet and this thread could be about BA pilots!

10th Feb 2003, 09:11
6 ON/ 3 OFF ? How can you take that ? Isn't Ryanair on 4 ON/3 OFF, home everynight ? Why should you settle for less than that ? Why do you even discuss ??????

Few Cloudy
10th Feb 2003, 09:50
The hardest I ever worked for easy - indeed worked for anybody, was when I was "on loan" to the Swiss section but still based in LTN. I worked several 90 hr months culminating in a 98.30 month in August 2000 (legal under the pertaining JAR/Swiss rules).

The interesting thing, was that the rostering was done by a small office in GVA. The people there listened to their crews and tried to accommodate their wishes. In that August I only worked 16 days - the rest was off - in blocks. It suited me just fine - others less. The point is that it is possible

a) to get a lot of work from a pilot but to give him free days too and

b) to plan people according to their wishes.

Regarding b) I realise that it is a lot easier to deal with a smaller contingent in this way but a rough series of monthly bid models should be possible even for the large firm easy now is. For instance - as many weekends off as possible - no weekends off - every thursday evening free - intense blocks on then several days off - short flight periods but more days on / less off - one week free during month etc. , according personal circumstances.

That is was the late lamented Willum would have called win-win. As they say - the time is now...

10th Feb 2003, 09:50
The vote is NO from me too.

People have said that a 'no' vote is a vote which undermines the Pilots' Council. I don't think so. The Pilots' Council, together with the officials of BALPA, have been unable to make any great headway against easyJet management - I don't personally think anyone could. Management were never going to accept our proposals and knew if they said NO, and were obstructive enough times, they would eventually prevail.

It is said that being a BALPA rep is a thankness task. Not the case - they have my thanks for all their efforts (and no doubt the thanks of the majority of other easyJet pilots too). I understand how difficult and frustrating it must be.

The 'pay deal' and rostering proposals put forward do not constitute an effective package. There is a lack of definition, particularly in the rostering 'protocol'. Too many lose ends to know quite what we are voting for. I defy anyone to explain in absolute terms the effect, in practice, of the clauses relating to this element of the 'pay deal' and whether the lifestyle at easyJet will improve. I don't know what the effects of the new rostering agreement will be. If I don't others won't.

The media has made the public very aware of sharp practice by companies and individuals who try to 'sell' products which are either flawed or not up to specification. Don't sign on the dotted line unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure you know what you getting for your money is the cry.

Yet here we are being advised to do exactly that!!! No one knows EXACTLY what holidays and days off we are entitled too; what the effect of the roster agreement will be; not even what the overall benefit is in pounds and pence to individual members of flight crew it is all so mixed up in pluses and minuses and length of service. Ask ten pilots what the benefit to them is and I can guarantee you will get ten different answers for ten different reasons.

I appreciate the efforts of the Pilots' Council, but this is the first phase towards agreement of decent terms and conditions of employment and - more importantly - a better lifestyle for ourselves and our families. Someone said elsewhere that the rostering proposals can mean all or nothing. In this form they mean nothing to us.

The first phase of negotiation is over and my vote is NO NO NEVER to terms and conditions in this form.

A 'yes' vote to this proposal is effectively a vote of confidence in management - who will then have a mandate to impose whatever rostering style they can get away with - and will make damn sure that at every verse end they refer back the time the pilots voted 'yes' to a ballot in February 2003. "Sorry guys" they will say, "we used our best endeavours but even so could not improve things as we would have liked (sound of Mutley laughing). Sometimes, even the best of efforts doesn't produce the results we would want - but then you knew that was a possibility when you voted in the ballot. No! - but it was there in black and white - we never said things would improve, just that as management we would try their best. If you didn't like the wording you should have said so at the time - too late now!"

It's our future. Mine is a NO vote, my family's vote is a NO vote.

Vote NO now to guarantee a YES vote when a fair, workable, package has finally been negotiated. This is not the end but the beginning.

...... steps off his orange box and walks away, head hung in disallusionment and disappointment that the dream could be over .... :(

10th Feb 2003, 14:34

“steps off his orange box and walks away, head hung in disallusionment and disappointment that the dream could be over .... ”

I don’t think you need to – everything you wrote made great sense and I’d say you can step away with your head held high. Also liked the following:

“Vote NO now to guarantee a YES vote when a fair, workable, package has finally been negotiated. This is not the end but the beginning.”

If every BALPA member thinks and votes in the same manner and also spends time urgently persuading non-members to join, you could very well all end up with the beginnings of a success on your hands.

Good luck to you all and hang right in there.

10th Feb 2003, 14:48
From what has been written I deduce that this has been going on since last March/April, 2002. Therefore I presume this to be the time for annual negotiations.

So, whatever the vote now for 2002 , the start of 2003 discussions is just around the corner. If you guys vote YES to what you seem to think is a below par deal, you can expect zero on the table come April, as the managment have discovered the shallow depth of resolve.
If you vote NO, then whatever is further discussed efectively becomes a 2 year deal. In other words much will have to be re-assessed.

But, in either case, it will be the foundation for years to come. Many of the board will have left and most of you will still be there dealing with the consequences.

Think on!

Stan Woolley
10th Feb 2003, 18:40

In fact the deal we are being recommended takes us through to 2004!

I'm not at all sure who gave Balpa the green light to sort out next years deal at the same time but it sure as hell wasn't me. The first I knew of this was after the deal had been agreed!:rolleyes:

Never mind I'm looking forward to my small extra payrise!!!

10th Feb 2003, 18:47
The trouble with pilots, no the trouble with crews, let's not forget our hardworking colleagues in the back, who get far less reward than ourselves - the trouble with crews is that we have a conscience, we actually want to get our passengers, who have paid their hard earned money, to provide US with our hard earned salary, to where they want to go to - on time.

To do this, we work totally anti-social hours, because people need to leave early in the morning to have a full day where they want to be.

To do this, we put up with strains and stresses that in other industies would call for psycho councelling.

To do this, we put up with rushed food, even at EZY - still; poor HOTAC, travelling at all hours, for all hours,in taxies, whose drivers seem to have the death wish.

To do this, we launch ourselves into the air and at the ground, in weather conditions that any normal person would think twice about risking themselves on the roads or trains.

To do this, we work up to 14 hours a day, and our Italian friends ( and I'm sure, many around the world) many more, through the middle of the night, changing our Circadian rhythm at the apparent whim of a crewing department, whose only reason for giving us our changes seems to be to cause maximum disruption to what remains of our social lives.

To do this, we risk totally alienating our better halves, who really did want to go Tesco shopping the following morning, when we were supposed to be on standby, and have now been called out to do a 3 day trip.

The result of this is that crew members seem to have the highest divorce rate amongst all the professions, and seem to live the least to enjoy our hard earned pension.

Why do we do this? BECAUSE WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!