French Air Traffic Strike

[Greebson]

French Air Traffic Control strike on monday in sympathy with other sectors POSSIBLY being privatised.
A trifle militant, don't you think, they are not even striking for themselves. Wait a minute, they can't do that, they haven't had months of discussion and it just might be illegal.

It'd never happen here.

[Departures Beckham]

Truckers striking, ATC striking ... why doesn't everyone strike and they can then call it a national day of laziness.

[XFL]

French Air Traffic Control strike on monday in sympathy with other sectors POSSIBLY being privatised.

Please gentlemen : don't fall into this trap ! Because, this is a trap.

Out of 2000 french atcos, maybe 50 will actually be on strike tomorrow... But our governement strangely decided to launch the "minimum service plan", with all those *very* heavy consequences on traffic.

Two possible explanations :

1) our administration is stupid;

2) our administration wants to decredibilize us just before the immensely important european council on the 5th of December. So, if we decide to strike for this vital matter, our claims won't be heard by public opinion. Smart move...

I'm the first to be disguted by that and BTW, I'm not on strike tomorrow, but that won't change anything.

But one thing *is* sure : I'll soon do my best to defend my status, not to let DGAC turn into another NATS. I don't know what is sector closed due to "staff shortage" and I'm not eager to find out, thanks. I don't want supervisors answering me : "you'll do fine without this expensive [insert whatever feature was unserviceable by the time of the Uberligen accident]" etc.

It'd never happen here

ROTFL :D NATS, Railtrack, Consignia, ... Need I go on? Sometimes, a good strike is better than a catastrophe, nope? Don't I remember a saying with a straw and an eye...? ;)

[Greebson]

XFL
I think you mis-understand me, my friend, I am not attacking the french Air Traffic Republic for their willingness to fight injustices; quite the opposite. I'm using a quaint english(british) trait called sarcasm.

[Loki]

Decredibilize? You`re not Dubya in disguise by any chance?

OK it`s not you`re first language, and if it`s not a word, it should be!

[XFL]

I think you mis-understand me, my friend, I am not attacking the french Air Traffic Republic for their willingness to fight injustices; quite the opposite. I'm using a quaint english(british) trait called sarcasm.

Oops. OK, I'll copy 100 times "I will read carefully other people's posts before getting started" ;)

I had just left another forum where we were being flamed by pilots for this strike, and I guess I just read what I "wanted" to read... And I woke up at 4 AM this morning (is that a valid excuse ?)

OK, now let's find another thread where I might be more ridiculous than here, which should be a challenge :cool:

OK it`s not you`re first language, and if it`s not a word, it should be!

er... actually it's hardly a word in french either :D

I kinda like to "forge" new words, whatever the language is, just a hobby of mine (OK, I should get a life... ;) )

[Proceed As Cleared]

French ATC going on strike?

Now, what else is new... :rolleyes:

[Wontonpussy]

I dont lean far enough to consider myself a socialist leftist, but.....GO FOR IT BOYS & GIRLS.
As ATC's we basically earn a reasonable but simply not big enough sallary, we generally pay the highest possible tax rates for our given country, we generally have huge mortgages, we generally contribute far more to our respective countries social services structure etc etc and No we dont have the company car (except for the sallary package office boys), we generally have remarkably crappy breakroom facilities, we generally work with equipment / procedures designed to induce error,we generally get treated pretty poorly!
If being a permanent government employee means a greater sense of security is possible versus the privatised world and/or contract world, if working for the government means you can tell the boss to "fix this peice of garbage now or were out", if working for the government means an equitable workplace where reprisals for your diligent application to task within the rules are not possible, then good on the froggies.
We've all heard the stories about the Canucks, Kiwis, Aussies & these pages are chockas with teabag tales of woe. If a good old fashioned "stick it up your jumper" strike is going to get the results we all dreamed of, then who can I send my 10 euros to for the strike fund.

[jocko0102]

Shame that not enough controllers in NATS have the balls to go on strike!!

[flowman]

XFL

I think you have a point, privatisation of NATS has been a complete disaster if the comments in these pages are anything to go by, but what is next weeks strike all about? Surely the single sky philosophy is just common sense. There is a fine line between striking for what you believe to be right, and striking to protect your own cosy arrangements at the expense of the rest of us.

Going on strike too often over many diverse issues ( some of which bear no apparent connection to your job) only serves to dilute your arguments. In fact it would appear that nobody even listens to your arguments anymore.

Are the French in Europe or not, or only when it suits them and if it is to their advantage?

flowman

[XFL]

I think you have a point, privatisation of NATS has been a complete disaster if the comments in these pages are anything to go by, but what is next weeks strike all about? Surely the single sky philosophy is just common sense.

Depends on what you call "single sky philosophy" actually. Broader harmonization ? More compatible tools and HMI ? OK, I'm for it, definitely. Yet, we have to admit the present level is quite good. In fact, it's completely equivalent for me to work with Barcelona&Madrid or with Brest, for example (excepted of course for the linguistic barrier). Journalists would say that MSA should be the same everywhere in Europe and that pilots should never change frequency :-D But except for those vital matters that have to be addressed asap, the system looks good to me.

But, if by "single sky philosophy", you mean all these FBA rubbish, then I'm afraid it's not common sense. On the contrary, it's something that scares the hell out of me.

And, to be more general than the FBAs, privatizing ATC is something that sounds too me as surreal as wanting to privatize the police, or nuclear energy... Oh, it's just been voted and is due 2007 ? May God protect us then...

There is a fine line between striking for what you believe to be right, and striking to protect your own cosy arrangements at the expense of the rest of us.

We know that. We hope that we'll stay on the good side of the line and that public opinion will realise it. And regarding the "cosy arrangements", we just want to have the best conditions possible to do our job in the safest and most comfortable conditions. We tend to work less as in UK or Maastricht, that's a fact, but it IS a security factor! And I remind you that french ATCos have amongst the lowest wages of ATCOs in Europe (only Portugal, or Greece - can't remember - are behind us). So, it's a trade-off, but IMO a good one, security-wise.

Going on strike too often over many diverse issues ( some of which bear no apparent connection to your job) only serves to dilute your arguments

I couldn't agree more. That's the reason why I (and 95% of my colleagues) were strongly opposed to today's strike ! Here, in Bordeaux 3 controllers were on strike today (out of 250) ! It does dilute our arguments, and that's exactly the reason why our administration decided the "minimum service" and hence had 90% of the flights cancelled, which triggered off mediatic attacks against us.

Are the French in Europe or not, or only when it suits them and if it is to their advantage?

Interesting question. Which could be extended to quite a few other topics! And then, I could wonder out loud if the german or the british, to name but two, are only in Europe when it suits them and if it is to their advantage :)

[flowman]

XFL

Thanks for the explanations. It's good to hear your side of the story. (What are FBAs? All this jargon is overtaking me!)

It's perfectly true to say that the Brits and the Germans are choosy about what they opt into and out of. All members of the EU try to negotiate the best deals possible for themselves, but you won't see them taking their argument out on their neighbours. I don't see how blockading ports, grounding thousands of passengers and sticking the knife into an already ailing industry is going to win your union any support. From what you have said it is obvious that the French Government don't give a toss either- they seem prepared to do exactly the same just to score a point over the union.

So what will be achieved? I think the answer is clear from the comments made by our fellow Ppruners. Whilst there is support for your cause to maintain standards and your working conditions, the manner and frequency of your union's methods is creating much ill feeling (even hatred!).

Merci ne nous avoir tenu au courant.
Votre collegue "decredabilizer" a Bruxelles.

flowman

[XFL]

What are FBAs? All this jargon is overtaking me!

Functionnal Block of Airspace. Basically, you divide the european airspace into blocks (much like the typical sector) and the EC will allow the most "competitive" operator to work in this FBA. In other words, the operator that will promise the best delay/cost ratio will be chosen by the EC, regardless of nationality, experience, etc. Which will eventually lead to side-by-side monpolies. Did someone say "english rail" here ?

All members of the EU try to negotiate the best deals possible for themselves, but you won't see them taking their argument out on their neighbours

Excuse-me, but I find it a bit naive. The perfect compromise does not exist and there are always "collateral damages" (to use a trendy expression...). For example, current immigration policy in the UK lead to the Sangatte center near Calais (ever heard of it?). Portraying France as the most egoistic country in the EC is pretty unfair IMO (though I wholeheartly agree they're not the most sympathetic either). We're probably less gifted to hide it...

I don't see how blockading ports, grounding thousands of passengers and sticking the knife into an already ailing industry is going to win your union any support.

Probably not. But I do think that if we have the opportunity to clearly explain to people why we are fighting for, then most of them will understand this is important. Most probably, journalists will mix up everything and people will just be pissed off...

It's then an opportunity to stand up against something that we believe is fundamentaly wrong and dangerous. It might sound a bit dull and contrived (but I swear it is not) but we fight for a safe sky for tomorrow...

I do realise it's a luxury, that whereas we're fighting for principles, NATS controllers have to fight for half-decent work conditions and tools. But that's exactly the situation we want to avoid in a not-that-far future.

There's this french saying I like a lot : "quand les riches maigrissent, les pauvres meurent", which translates roughly into "when the rich lose weight, the poor die."

the manner and frequency of your union's methods is creating much ill feeling (even hatred!).

I've tried to explain that twice already but I don't seem to be understood : we (the SNCTA, which is by far the major ATC union) have nothing to do with *this* strike, which was hand-made by our government to "dilute our arguments" (I'm quoting you). A wide majority of french ATCOs think they've been taken into hostage today !

Next week's strike, which we were talking about, is actually the first strike we've decided since the late eighties (I was still in high school then...) !!!!!!! Less than one national strike a decade does not sound that frequent to me :confused:

I know that striking is sort of a national sport here (though I was in England in March 2002 and there were tons of strikes, but I have to agree we're the most proficient strikers on the block ;) ) but as far as Air Traffic Control is concerned and in spite of all the prejudices one might have (I suppose I had the same before becoming one), we did not strike that often AT ALL.

Actually our union has (should I say "had"? Hope not...) a very strong negociation/cooperation/counter-proposal policy, which proved to be very successful until today. Let's wait&see...


Votre collegue "decredabilizer" a Bruxelles

This barbaric term was referring to the DGAC (the french CAA). I don't think Brussels has anything to do with today's bad joke...

Merci de votre attention.

[flowman]

XFL
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"Next week's strike, which we were talking about, is actually the first strike we've decided since the late eighties (I was still in high school then...) !!!!!!! Less than one national strike a decade does not sound that frequent to me"
-------------------------------------------------

Having just looked into the archive machine I can find French ATC strikes on 19/06/02, and 5-7/12/01. Anything before that has been binned.
You didn't notice a few quiet days if you were at work on those dates did you?
Counting this weeks strike, that averages out at roughly one day with industrial action every two and a half months.
That sounds fairly frequent to me. ;)

flowman

[Vercingetorix]

XFL
Striking C'est le Sport. Pour les Francais c'est normal. It earns no respect

[ATC Watcher]

A bit of info :
Striking is a recognised fundamental right written in the French Republic Constitution. It is recognised a a major contributor to French politics by all political parties, including the conservative one now in power. In fact most strikes deliver something , so why not using that weapon if you were a (French ) syndicalist ?

OK, now that said , I am constantly amazed about the people in the industry that supports wholeheartly the Single Sky Initiative of the EU without having actually read it. Especially controllers. The FBA concept is not good for us my friends. I will not like to be employed by the company that will put the cheaper bill on the table. And that is exactly what FBA bidding will do....