Descent in the holding pattern

[moosp]

For you Authorised Examiners/Check Airmen/ATC Standards guys out there, or you wizard dudes at Jepperson who eat this stuff for breakfast.

A point of PansOps came up today about the height to which you may descend on entry to a holding pattern. If the holding pattern has a minimum altitude specified of say 2000 feet, may you descend to that altitude during the entry procedure or do you have to wait until you are established in the hold after the entry procedure? (i.e. after the first station passage for a Sector 3 entry or after the second station passage after a Sector 1 or 2 entry.)

All I can read out of PansOps Vol 1 Part IV holding procedures implies that you can descend to the minimum holding altitude in the entry procedure, but I have a dissenter who believes that you must be "Established" in the hold.

Any ideas?

And BTW I do get out a bit, but probably not enough... ;)
.

[NW1]

The join is designed to keep you in the holding protected area just like the hold pattern proper, so you may descend to minimum holding altitude once there (if so cleared by atc). You may also go straight into the procedural approach from the join without flying a full pattern - the join and the hold are the same. That's how I understand it.....

I'd be stuck if I had to quote you a reference, though. I'll have a look around and get back to you if I find one..... (don't hold your breath!!:) )

[reynoldsno1]

NW1 is correct. In some cases, a descent in the hold to the approach procedure commencement altitude may be published once the aircraft is established inbound.

[moosp]

Thanks for the quick replies. That's what I think too so it is useful to have a bit of amunition when you are arguing a point. I'll try the Jeppersen "Introduction" for a reference when I'm near a copy.

Cheers

[NW1]

Found the reference: PANS-OPS (Doc 8168-OPS/611) Vol 1 (Flight Procedures) Part IV - Chapter 2 Obstacle Clearance (page 4-9).

2.1 Holding Area.

The holding area includes the basic holding area and the entry area:
a) the basic holding area at any particular level is the airspace required at that level to encompass a holding pattern based on the allowances for aircraft speed, wind effect, timing errors, holding fix characteristics, etc.;

b)the entry area includes the airspace required to accomodate the specified entry procedures.

(It goes on to define buffer areas, minimum holding levels and the clearance from obstacles afforded by these concepts.....)

[moosp]

That's the source document. Great, I shall go into bat with that. Thanks for your time.