Blow Me ! ( not literally though ! ) [Archive]

fireflybob

27th Oct 2002, 10:59

Land ASAP, why not a good time to be in an Airbus with mini ground speed function and autothrust?

Personally I cannot think of a better type of aircraft to be in in these wind conditions - although I hasten to add that I have also flown Boeings and that this comment is not intended to start a Boeing/Airbus debate!!

Smokie

27th Oct 2002, 11:28

I'm doing BHD-LGW-BHD in a couple of hours , should keep me amused !:D

trustno1

27th Oct 2002, 12:26

First of all may I say that having watched Aircraft landing for about 1.5 hours this morning on 27L at LHR...what ever the Pilots are being paid it isn't enought.

It got me wondering as to crosswind landing limits for different types of aircraft and different airlines. Could someone enlighten me as to the limits for different aircraft and do the airlines themselves impose stricter limits.

fatboy slim

27th Oct 2002, 12:28

Try BHX for size chaps... Runway 33 anyone??

mcdhu

27th Oct 2002, 12:34

I quite enjoyed lying in my scratcher this morning listening to the tinkle of tiles skittering down the roof and smashing on the ground below!!
Cheers,
mcdhu

flower

27th Oct 2002, 14:25

We had gusts at 62 kts this am , landings were interesting to watch (finger held over crash button just in case ).

At least 6 light GA aircraft have been damaged or destroyed overnight at Cardiff with 1 Warrior sitting on top of another.

SOPS

27th Oct 2002, 14:27

:eek: SPL Tempo 1317 26048G72 !!!! Hang on tight!!!!

Land ASAP

27th Oct 2002, 14:47

Firefly Bob,

What the FAC (Flight Augmentation Computer) is it doing now? Stir that porridge, Sir.

Spitoon

27th Oct 2002, 14:54

Hey flower, I guess news of this new thing called a Weather Standby hasn't reached Wales yet. :)

batty

27th Oct 2002, 15:15

Great to be able to land and then sit on stand for 3 hours waiting to get the pax off the aircraft since it was to windy for the steps!!

TopBunk

27th Oct 2002, 16:18

Visited LHR twice today, early am and mid pm (in an Airbus!)

It was a little sporting, I must say, although with the wind down the runway, it was not as bad as last winter (gusting 51kts first time and 45 second visit).

On both occasions it was a little lumpy (!) below about FL070, and the ATIS was giving (2nd time) a loss of 25kts at 200ft and severe turbulence in last 0.5nm finals.

Personally, I think that the Airbus has some pros and some cons in these conditions, again not wanting to start a war being a Boeing-boy by trade.

Pros include the auto pitch trimming removing the pitch couple

Cons include groundspeed mini which can result in 160 to 4 becoming 175 to 1nm then the power coming off to reduce to Vapp target.. I personally prefer selected speed (Vls + 15 today) inside 4d. (The poor AF flight ahead of me had to go around when following a Citiation, after telling approach he would be 180kts final app speed due GSpd mini).

As an aside, never seen so many grateful pax on disembarking (or cabin crew for that matter).

..... now then, Rod, how about that 40% pay rise!

320DRIVER

27th Oct 2002, 18:04

Visited LHR today, in a Bus of course... nothing too bad, just choose Flap 3 for a bit more energy and Manual Thrust for some seat-o-the-pants feedback.

Just some sphincter action at 400 feet were the brunt of the shear was felt but touched down as light a feather on the 1000' marker. Pity it was the guy in the other seat doing the stick waggling :-)

Porky Speedpig

27th Oct 2002, 18:50

"swingtime" at the back of a 734 today on BA1395 MAN-LHR.
Very interesting taking off in a heavy squall and very grateful to feel no messing about with noise abatement etc! Many thanks to Mike and Louise at the front who did a fantastic job (and the cabin crew who were pretty inventive too!)

Soggy

27th Oct 2002, 19:12

Watched some BMI types taking off and landing at Tesside today. No one seemed to have any problems though. Mind you, the wind was straight down the runway. I bet they were stabbing themselves in the eyes on departure just to make things tougher!!!

MAX

27th Oct 2002, 19:34

We dropped the C550 into EGLL this morning. 240/30G55. The real problem was taxiing with the wind behind us. A real arm and leg workout. Apologies to the AF boys who went around behind us.:eek:

MAX:cool:

timzsta

27th Oct 2002, 20:29

Ventured over to Sat 2 at Stansted on my break to see what the pax were looking like after getting off the inbounds. Never seen such a long que outside the toilets or so many green looking people! Guess that Schipol METAR was why we cancelled our AMS this afternoon! Mid afternoon AMS-STN had a 2100Z slot out of AMS! Had another aircraft stuck in LGW, and the full cost lot seem to have nabbed all the coaches in that neck of the woods!

Interesting array of BA 74's and 777's on the cargo apron at EGSS as well, and the worlds biggest supply of coaches down the bus station taking all the punters back to EGLL and EGKK.

Passengers were not happy at the delay to their bags coming up to reclaim - I think the 80mph winds blowing across the ramp is a reasonable reason as to why.

Liked the coment about noise abatement on the 1395. Wonder what the take off brief was like - "stuff what the FMC says about the N1's, I'm gonna be using full power"

Nigel PAX

27th Oct 2002, 20:32

Given that planes were landing at LHR, if a little sportingly, why were all BA trans-Atlantic flights cancelled today? I was one of the people milling around in the new Heathrow Zoo, formerly T4, being told that no planes could take off or land, when I'd watched them coming in as usual on 27L on the way to the airport. [I couldn't see if they were also taking off on 27R.]

If A319s could land, why not 777s and 744s? Or was it that the incoming flghts had been cancelled or diverted, because of worse conditions earlier in the morning?

timzsta

27th Oct 2002, 20:39

See the above post Nigel! Most of BA's long haul fleet spent today on Stansteds cargo ramp!

Don D Cake

27th Oct 2002, 20:44

An absolute nutter passed over my house this lunchtime at about 2000ft in a SE light aircraft. The trees at the bottom of my garden were bent over double at the time :eek:. Couldn't identify the type as it must have been doing about 250kts over the ground.

Nigel PAX

27th Oct 2002, 20:49

Yes, our posts crossed. I wondered if it was something like that, but the harassed BA staff didn't know, and no-one was telling the poor SLFs like me (and some were much more disrupted than I was). And, of course, when you combine the flight I would have taken today with tomorrow's, it's full, so I now have to go via Vancouver and lose a day in Seattle. I'm sure the connecting Alaska Dash 8 will really feel great after the BA744 flying bed!

It would have been nice if the BA Executive Club had emailed me or called before I set off for the airport, given that they have my details and must have known about the cancellation. It would have saved them hassle as well as me -- T4 was getting almost dangerously overcrowded. Nothing on the BAA Heathrow Web site to warn intending passengers, either.

320JI

27th Oct 2002, 21:12

My ma and Pa arrived from PHL into EGLL this morning at 0800 on a BA 777 They have never been sick on a plane before but an hour in the hold did for that...

To top it all off they were waiting for a stand for an hour then four hours in reclaim (being told nothing) only to be told no bags could be off loaded due to the wind.

They are now sitting at home with no bags and a best ETA of Tuesday before they will arrive.....

oh well ........we are British after all......chin up

320

BahrainLad

27th Oct 2002, 21:36

If BA are looking for a 744, there's one at EGNT..........

timzsta

27th Oct 2002, 21:54

Sorry to hear of your bad day at London Zoo Nigel. Sometimes when we are having a real bad day we just cant cope. It's not good enough I know, have been there myself, we dont mess you around on purpose.

Regarding e-mail, internet sites and delays, had an interesting conversation on check in with a passenger going on to Berlin (3 hour delay due weather)

"You could have put the delay on your internet site"
"We don't do that, a delay could be for many reasons, something like ATC slot or a tech problem could come and go in minutes, then lots of people would miss the flight".
"But Ryanair do it, why cant you?"
"Yes and Ryanair just cancelled all their flights to Germany, we are still operating, all be it late"
"Oh rite ...."

Don - nice one about the SE aircraft! Tickled me pink. You would have had no problem if he was going the other way - he would have been hovering in a fixed wing aircraft.

go_edw

27th Oct 2002, 22:26

Still some BA 777's abandoned at STN........

HounslowHarry

27th Oct 2002, 23:06

Heathrow T4 is an absolute shambles, and it has been for several months. What was going on today in the wind was a disgrace. It appears that BA could not organise a p up in a brewery.

(And for once nothing to do with ATC or HAL, despite what was being allegedly said to crews on 131.9)

I really feel for all the crews who had to sit for up to five hours for a gate and also for the punters whohad to wait even longer to get their bags (if they ever did get them).

BA really need to draw up contingency plans for such events. I still can't work out why they were letting Amsterdam and Paris flights take off at the other end full knowing that they would be waiting for hours for gates. The people who pay our wages should be treated with a little more respect.

On a more cheerier note, good job done by all the crews operating onto 27L today. There was a few hairies, but the fire engine at the edge of 27L was not required. Keep up the good work.

CaptSnails

28th Oct 2002, 06:31

Pushed back at 1000z yesterday from L29 at LHR. Atis was giving 250/37G58. Started the 4 hairdriers and as we asked for taxi about 8 ULD's were being blown onto the taxiway at L coul de sac. Sat there for about 30 minutes as these poor guys in land rovers were chasing these ULD's which were definately doing way more than the speed limit at LHR.

After take off we did the DVR5F and at 6000 feet our groundspeed was 350kts with indicated at 250

:D

martinidoc

28th Oct 2002, 12:40

Couldn't agree more with HounslowHarry.

There is a gulf between the professionalism of the aircrew and management/groundstaff@LHR. (featherlite landing on BA116 from JFK well done guys)

Still havn't got the bags, and groundstaff customer services, lost bags etc etc in free fall at BA

Perhaps Rod should listen to his own TV adverts! Definitely a case for advertsising standards on the basis of their current performance

Suggest aircrew start up their own airline with their own management team. Could be the only chance for survival.

GrahamK

28th Oct 2002, 13:11

I believe the BA 747-400 left Newcastle this morning after a nightstop, positioning back to LHR.
You can see pics of it at NCL at:
http://www.airnorth.co.uk

southern duel

28th Oct 2002, 22:14

Well said Hounslow Harry

HAL were definatly getting the blame on 131.9. The 6 stands they lost due to 23 in use were given back to them at 10:00 so why they were in such amess who knows, especially as all the other terminals were basically operating normally bar one ot 2 delays. in fact terminal 3 only had 2 flights canx.

There was space at lGW to divert the 11 aircraft we had on the ground at one stage, Some of these were actually on the ground more then 4 hours !!!.
2 medical emergencies were also declared by BA036 and BA038 at nearly the same time and BA still could not find stands. The good old ops boys came to the rescue again even talking the flight crews on 131.9 to keep them informed of the impending arrivals of the ambulances.

A total fiasco from start to finish by T4 and they were even asked if they would like assistance in deplaning the pax from the airfield with coaches. This was deemed as bad customer service for the pax. I suppose sitting on the ground for 5 hours isnt !!.

Perhaps its about time BA took responsiblity for there downfalls and not blame everyone else.

:mad:

timzsta

29th Oct 2002, 00:34

Last BA 777 pushed back at STN at around 1400 Monday. 2330 Monday and there was still a massive pile of bags tagged "LHR" in the baggage hall of the same airport.

Norman Stanley Fletcher

29th Oct 2002, 00:42

Someone earlier asked the wind limits on different types. I fly the A320/321 and the limits we use are as follows:

65 kts max from any direction for taxi/doors operation.

Crosswind limits of:
35 kts for engine start
29 gusting 38 for take-off
33 gusting 38 for landing

FOs limited to 2/3 of the above. Hope that answers the question.

ATCO Two

29th Oct 2002, 12:09

I wonder how many pilots know that the wind they are being passed by ATC in the UK is the average over the last two minutes? The instant wind is available but according to the rules is only passed if requested. I take a more pragmatic view and always pass the instant wind in strong or gusty wind conditions. What do the drivers think?

northwing

30th Oct 2002, 20:52

Civil crosswind limits frighten this boffin silly. In order to get a C of A the manufacturer has to demonstrate a crosswind of 0.2 Vs, except that he must demonstrate at least 20 knots but doesn't have to demonstrate more than 25 knots irrespective of stall speed. The manufacturer may test at a higher crosswind, or claim to have flown the simulator at higher crosswinds, but it is basically up to the airline to decide where they want to put the limit for their pilots. The simulator is only as good as the data fed into it, and I doubt that the roll power derivative in ground effect at 10 degrees angle of bank is actually all that well known. The same goes for a dozen other inputs to the simulation. I work for an organisation which only clears crosswinds which we have actually seen for real, and some interesting things come out of the woodwork when you actually go there. EG. anti-skid failure because one wheel had lifted off and fuddled the WOW logic, or the inadvertent thumbful of trim applied while the yoke was upside down in the roundout.

If your destination has a silly crosswind, divert. Otherwise you may be doing it for real for the first time.

If your employer asks you to land in a silly crosswind, divert to a sensible employer.