Insurance Poll - UK FI's

[RVR800]

Hi

How many of you Instructors have insurance cover

I ask you to CONFIRM the cover you have before
responding

Its my belief that students are covered but FIs are
not at most schools

A scandal

[cessnababe]

The question needs to be more specific. Most standard aviation policies in place at flying schools will cover the instructor's THIRD PARTY liabilities, i.e. legal liability to third parties such as damage caused to someone else's property or injuries to others. However it is usual in such policies for there to be a CREW EXCLUSION as far as PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH is concerned. That means that the pilot's own injuries would not be compansated under that policy.

That may seem unfair but it is the norm in these policies. I think that it is because crew injury would normally be covered by an employer's liability policy, but of course that does leave the self-employed pilot exposed. Buying your own medical policy is the answer to this.

However, for the freelance instructor and examiner the situation is less clear and it is likely that you need to have your own professional liability insurance to cover the third party liabilities when you operate outside your normal flying school environment.

Hope this is useful.

[BEagle]

I agree with you, cessnababe. Insurance against what? Injury, alleged negligence?

No doubt in this huggy-fluffy litigation-obsessed era, some jerk will have an engine failure one day, cock up the resulting forced landing and then try to blame the resulting death, damage or injury on the Examiner who passed him on his Skill Test! Perhaps for giving him the false impression that his skill was safe enough?

Students - you fly at your own risk. If you want insurance, go buy your own!

Any references to the masculine gender should be taken to apply equally to the feminine and/or indeterminate genders.

[charlie-india-mike]

BEagle


Can you tell me what the insurance position is regarding solo students?

Are they covered for 3rd party claims under the school's insurance?

I asked this question at the place where I am currently training and got told not to worry with no further explanation given.

Also

What about 'excess' as most insurance policys have some form of excess applied. Who pays that in the solo student world?

Thanks
:confused: :confused: :confused:

[spittingimage]

Generally, if you ding a rented aircraft and it is an 'all risks' policy then you can usually reckon the limit of financial damage to yourself will be the 'excess' on the policy, eg 500 or 1000 pds, whatever has been agreed.

However, if the damage to the aircraft has been caused by some lapse on your part, eg ran out of fuel, then while the OWNER of the aircraft may be indemnified against such risk (and get his repairs paid for by the insurance company) YOU as pilot may well be faced with a zealous insurance company wanting its money back. It is called subrogation and is likely to follow any successful prosecution by the CAA for said lapse. This is on the basis that you cannot insure yourself against the consequence of an illegal act on your part .. and if you are successfully prosecuted you must have committed an illegal act.

There is a young lady who found this out to her cost a few years back with a bent Baron in the Bournemouth area. She had to reimburse the insurance company some 85K I seem to recall.

So .. be careful where you run out of fuel or commit one of a host of other aviation transgressions or it might not just be a bent prop for which you end up paying. When third party liability costs are involved the figures become absolutely frightening.

I can not see any difference whether you are a student or instructor if you are in command. I am one of the latter and confess I just shut my mind to this - it is just too horrible to contemplate for long. And I would love to be contradicted by a legal-type out there. Any takers ?

Caveat aviator.

Isn't aviation a wind-up ?

[cessnababe]

You do indeed run these risks. Subrogation is always a possibility unless there is a waiver of subrogation agains th the pilot in the policy. How do you find out? You have to see the policy. Wehn you hire an aircraft or even work as an instructor you will probably only see the insurance certificate which does not give these details. So you have to ask. If the information is not easily forthcoming then you should act as a prudent uninsured. Either get your own cover or make damn sur you do not do anything to breach any of the rules. If in doubt ask me... As well as being an instructor I specialise in aviation law...

[distaff_beancounter]

cessnababe

No answers, just further questions, if I may ...

Can we assume that instructors, will be covered under the flying school's Employers' Liability Policy?

If a student were to claim that an instructor was negligent, then, as an employee, doesn't the instructor automatically have an indemnity from the flying school, so that the school would have to settle the claim?

[cessnababe]

To answer the last question: it depends whether the flying school has employer's liability insurance. It is well-known that the majority of flying instructors are self-employed and therefore would not be covered by EL insurance. In those cases it would be up to the individual to make sure that he was covered himself. Despite many enquiries through insurance brokers and underwriters I have been unable to locate a policy to cover instructors and examiners and on the last enquiry was told that there was no market for it! We therefore need the weight of numbers of instructors anxious to protect themselves in order to get a special policy written. Who is interested??